Should the way proposals are submitted be changed?

fulltimegeek

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Nobody likes submitting a proposal, which currently costs ~$20, and then have it fail to pass -- losing your 5 DASH forever. I believe this method does indeed discourage spammers but it also discourages serious contributors that might've miscalculated their proposals. People get offended if you vote down their proposals. Refunding the collateral that it took to submit a proposal will soften that blow.

We should use the same concept we use for Masternode collateral. It should cost 1000 to submit a proposal which is then refunded once the proposals leaves the queue -- or, vise versa, the proposal leaves the queue when the 1000 is moved?

This concept can create a whole new job sector in the ecosystem of Dash because it will give investors the chance to "rent" out their 1000 to contractors/marketers that want to submit proposals to the Dash network. So, someone with 1000 dash can choose between two jobs: make revenue by running a masternode or by submitting proposals on-behave of a 3rd party (or yourself).

This opens up Dash to the non-techies which do not understand the complexities of running a masternode.

Just food for thought. What do all you dashers think?
 
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fulltimegeek

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JOBS == GOOD FOR BUSINESS aka (DASH).

I don't see any downside to this except the work that would go into implementing it.
 
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MangledBlue

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sorry - PASS....

5DASH is ok for now
3DASH when it sustains $10USD/DASH, regularly
1DASH when it sustains $25USD/DASH, regularly
0.5DASH when it sustains $50USD/DASH, regularly
etc etc

NOBODY is gonna loose [pay] a whole MN, for a full month, just to submit a proposal - and hope they get it back
also - Loss of profit, for a full, possibly month, on a MN - no thank you

5DASH - nominal fee - [for now] moving on.........that's my vote......
 
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fulltimegeek

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The loss of profit of not running a masternode substitues as the submission fee though. That is the entire point. Either you are a serious proposal submitter or you won't take down your masternode for a month. And let's not forget that there are users that have more than 1000 DASH that have NO USE for it since they are not tech savvy and can't run a masternode.

The free market would bring the BEST OF THE BEST proposals to us. PLUS, end-users don't even know how to submit proposals. With my concept, there would be a niche of people that just focus on facilitating the whole process of proposal submission.
 
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MangledBlue

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sorry - PASS....

5DASH is ok for now
3DASH when it sustains $10USD/DASH, regularly
1DASH when it sustains $25USD/DASH, regularly
0.5DASH when it sustains $50USD/DASH, regularly
etc etc

NOBODY is gonna loose [pay] a whole MN, for a full month, just to submit a proposal - and hope they get it back
also - Loss of profit, for a full, possibly month, on a MN - no thank you

5DASH - nominal fee - [for now] moving on.........that's my vote......

edit - WOOOOOO - didn't even read that part about renting out the DASH

Yea who possesses the Private Keys - possesses the DASH

There should be no Renting/Leasing of my precious...... for another individual to use in any way, shape or form......
 
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MangledBlue

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The loss of profit of not running a masternode substitues as the submission fee though. That is the entire point. Either you are a serious proposal submitter or you won't take down your masternode for a month. And let's not forget that there are users that have more than 1000 DASH that have NO USE for it since they are not tech savvy and can't run a masternode.

The free market would bring the BEST OF THE BEST proposals to us. PLUS, end-users don't even know how to submit proposals. With my concept, there would be a niche of people that just focus on facilitating the whole process of proposal submission.

Pay me 6DASH and I'll submit your proposals
That's creating jobs......
 

fulltimegeek

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Just like you don't need the private key to run a Masternode you won't need the private key for a proposal. It would work the same way Masternodes work. If the 1000 gets moved, the Masternode or Proposal gets dropped.
 

fulltimegeek

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Pay me 6DASH and I'll submit your proposals
That's creating jobs......
With this method you consistently need a inflow of new Dash. If the 1000 can be reused by an individual, they could act as a USD/DASH converter. And they would be compelled to never get rid of their 1000 dash. It's a beautiful system. It would make us HIGHY more effective with this whole proposal system.
 
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MangledBlue

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Just like you don't need the private key to run a Masternode you won't need the private key for a proposal. It would work the same way Masternodes work. If the 1000 gets moved, the Masternode or Proposal gets dropped.
I still say - just pay me 6DASH per proposal and I'll submit them....
10 DASH if you want me to actually write something up about it
20 DASH if you want me to fully support it...

I can be a Ho...

But I'm not taking my MN's off-line to place a submission
That means only 1 submission per MN
It also limits the field
If I have 3 great ideas and only one MN - I should be restricted from doing all 3 project - and now I have to go out and beg somebody to loan me their MN PrivKey[PUB] and make them take it down just so I can submit another proposal......

I'll stop there - way to complicated and I don't like to beg other people

15 DASH - 3x proposals submitted - done.......
 

fulltimegeek

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If you won't take your MN down for a month - than to me, that proposal wasn't good enough to merit a submission in the first place.
 

noobtrader

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more important issue i think is how we can demand report for fund used from proposal that have passed and paid ?
 

fulltimegeek

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more important issue i think is how we can demand report for fund used from proposal that have passed and paid ?
Since submitters would become another niche profession on our network, they would by de-facto become the point of contact for all submitted proposals. They would handle the complaints and relay it to the 3rd party that wrote the proposal. We need this to be a dedicated job just like MNO or we'll continually have a CLUSTER F***.
 

fulltimegeek

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but if 1000 is returned, isnt that mean anyone with thousands of dash can spam proposal without losing a single dash ?
Would a spammer rather use their 1000 DASH to get downvoted to oblivion every month or make some profit on it by running MN or Submitting proposals for 3rd parties?
 
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noobtrader

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Would a spammer rather use their 1000 DASH to get downvoted to oblivion every month or make some profit on it by running MN or Submitting proposals for 3rd parties?
some ppl rather buy a lottery LOL

btw 1000 dash will make about 10 dash per month as MN isnt ? so how much the submitter has to pay to 1000 dash owner ?
 

UdjinM6

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May 20, 2014
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Nobody likes submitting a proposal, which currently costs ~$20 .... it also discourages serious contributors .....
Well, I can't imagine a serious contributor who cares about losing $20 if his idea fails or who can't calculate his costs properly - you can always add 5 DASH to your initial calculation to cover proposal submission cost. If a contributor can't do this simple math I think he is not quite ready to propose anything at all and need to do his homework first maybe. ;)

Another thing to note (I said it many times already and haven't change my mind since then): I believe many problems with voting / losing 5 DASH arise only because people are rushing with submission. The way system works encourage you to discuss proposal FIRST to get the idea if it's going to be accepted or not. Lay out your proposal in simple plain text here on forum, provide as many details as possible and refine it based on feedback you received. THEN submit it to the network to have actual voting going on not BEFORE you refined it. This way everyone is happy: you get nice proposal, everyone is awared of what it is going to look like -> you (most likely) are going to have proposal accepted and will not lose your 5 DASH for nothing.
 

fulltimegeek

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some ppl rather buy a lottery LOL

btw 1000 dash will make about 10 dash per month as MN isnt ? so how much the submitter has to pay to 1000 dash owner ?
Like I previously said. There are users that have more than 1000 dash that are not tech savvy enough to run masternodes. Non-techies would now have an opportunity to use their 1000 dash to help facilitate the proposal submission. It definitely won't be as profitable as running a MN but at least it gives people an alternative. Not only does it create more opportunity, but it will resolve all of our problems with these proposal submissions not being properly written.

With a niche of people submitting proposals, they would know exactly how the proposal should look and what information to include. Since their job is customer facing, they wouldn't want to submit a proposal for someone knowing that it was incomplete and most likely to be downvoted. They would ASSIST the proposal writer. That's why they would be getting paid in the first place.

Just because us DASHERS know the protocols for submitting a proposal, it doesn't mean the public knows. There needs to be a group of people that are INCENTIVIZED to facilitate this process.
 

noobtrader

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if tech savvyy is problem then we should simplify MN running method.

with free proposal for 1000 dash owner will create spammer, they will not wait 1 month to realize its downvoted to death, they will create another 3 hours later copying exactly the hottest proposal.
 

fulltimegeek

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This idea also acts as a separation of powers.

As of right now, someone with let's say: 500,000 DASH could create 200 proposals leaving him with 499,000 DASH. He could vote YES on all proposals 499 times. With my system, if someone wanted to create 200 proposals, they would then have 200 less masternodes to vote with.
 

noobtrader

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or 200 troll with 1000 dash trying to get free dash

cant u imagine if there is 201 proposal saying satoshi roundtable...

i say get the proposal fee raised to 10 dash, not make it free.
 
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fulltimegeek

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or 200 troll with 1000 dash trying to get free dash

cant u imagine if there is 201 proposal saying satoshi roundtable...

i say get the proposal fee raised to 10 dash, not make it free.
If a troll is willing to buy 200,000 Dash just to spam proposals every month; I would be ok with that.
 

noobtrader

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shhhhh......
lets be reasonable...
say if proposal are becoming free/just need 1000 etc, even someone with 3 MN can troll copy the hottest proposal of the month and jeopardize the proposal making it like 4 identical proposal.

the system is good as it is now. if you want to change, make change to minimum vote to pass.

EDIT :
if you insist making 1000 as colateral, its okay but proposer still need to pay 5 dash, otherwise if its free someone will troll it ;)
 
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MangledBlue

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10% is good number
That is being displayed now
Just look at the votes....
 

TheDashGuy

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All proposals should be anonymous until they pass or fail.

Because this whole "vote based on who submitted it" attitude around here is utter shit.

If you guys want a certain set of standards they have to apply to EVERYONE.

everyone
[ev-ree-wuhn, -wuh n]
pronoun
1.every person; everybody.

meaning just because someone is Evan, he still needs to supply this 5 page essay and calculated breakdowns, along with milestone expectations and all this other useless crap everyone wants to see.

If you don't expect it from Evan, don't expect it at all.

Thats all there is to it.
 

fulltimegeek

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I think everyone here is missing the big picture. We have the power to create a new 2nd tier job for the Dash network.

Not only would we have industries that are based upon Masternode hosting (i.e. Node40) but also for proposal submissions. This would diversify the bag holders of dash. DIVERSITY IS GOOD. We would have the nerds that want to run their own masternodes and we would have the paper pushers that want to assist the public with proposal submission.

Let's please create this new 2nd tier job. There is no good reason why we shouldn't. The more jobs we make possible on our network the more people will work for DASH.
 
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Solarminer

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The fee of 5 dash now is reasonable. In a year that may be too high. Either way, the submitter needs to honestly believe their proposal has a chance....or they have $20 to throw away. I disagree with the idea of adding a layer between the submitter and the voter. I think the organic discussions add value and make it interesting. If every proposal was a 10 page document for $1,000 in funding, it wouldn't make any sense. If Dash is $100 each, sure we can afford the long proposals for $100,000 in funding. Maybe manpower will submit proposals and outsource the work. Eventually, this budget will be huge and that will be exciting indeed.
 

fulltimegeek

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Thank you Solarminer for your honest feedback on this, I also appreciate everybody else that have commented as well.
 

Solarminer

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Thinking more about creating jobs. We should take the rewards for mining and put them into the budget. Then push that to people that can work for Dash. The solution is then finding a way to secure the blockchain without wasting energy on mining. (no disrespect to miners)
 

noobtrader

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Thinking more about creating jobs. We should take the rewards for mining and put them into the budget. Then push that to people that can work for Dash. The solution is then finding a way to secure the blockchain without wasting energy on mining. (no disrespect to miners)
no... no... this is bad, we are still pow, unless we are pos coin/mining with masternode we cant do this. btw i thought u were miner...


I think everyone here is missing the big picture. We have the power to create a new 2nd tier job for the Dash network.

Not only would we have industries that are based upon Masternode hosting (i.e. Node40) but also for proposal submissions. This would diversify the bag holders of dash. DIVERSITY IS GOOD. We would have the nerds that want to run their own masternodes and we would have the paper pushers that want to assist the public with proposal submission.

Let's please create this new 2nd tier job. There is no good reason why we shouldn't. The more jobs we make possible on our network the more people will work for DASH.
im not against 2nd tier income, im against the problem it might arise.
i guess proposal that need 1000 dash collateral and pay 5 dash, or without collateral and pay 10 dash is good idea.

so someone who has 1000 dash and he post proposal for other ppl can earn lot of dash if he charges by 1 dash per day collateral.
 
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