Preproposal - Dash Fund

Wilmar Toro

Member
May 30, 2017
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Dash Fund

I really like the sentence “less is more”, so I´m going to show you this in the simplest way possible:

I saw some proposals trying to change the Proposal fee of 5 to 1 or 0.1 Dash, an adaptative fee proposal, even a sub DAO (or Sub-budget). Not successful.

The objective is one: help people that have good ideas and don´t have 5 Dash to submit a proposal (or at least get founded in the case of the sub-budget)


Fact 1: The idea is make a Dash a cryptocurrency used by everyone…. Everyone.
Fact 2: Dash is decentralized, it means Dash should be used even by people that are not “rich”.
Fact 3: Good ideas can come even from people that doesn´t have 5 Dash.
Fact 4: At actual rate, 5 Dash is near 595 USD, according with the country this is a small amout or it´s more that monthly incomes (salary).
Fact 5: (This is my philosophical though) Blockchain technology has come to change the paradigm. We can use this rising technology to show the world we can build a human system, where we can support together and where we value the creativity, passion, and brilliant minds.


WHAT IT IS ABOUT?

A way to help people fund the 5 Dash needed to submit a proposal to the Budget (crowfund 5 Dash)


WHO CAN CONTRIBUTE?

Anyone who believes in X or Y proposal, anyone who see potential, anyone who believes the proposal can improve the Dash ecosystem even in a remote town. Anyone who wants to help that idea, but is aware that the idea might not be approved and maybe can´t get his/her funds back.



DETAILS:

  • Person A wants to submit a proposal to the Budget, but he/she doesn´t have the 5 Dash of fee.
  • Person A makes a pre-proposal in two sites: Pre-proposals Dash Forum and Dash Fund.
  • Dash Fund creates a unique address to the project, where founders can contribute with the amount of Dash they choose. This is (should be) the unique address authorized (published)to receive funds.
  • Once the 5 Dash are reached, Dash Fund creates an official proposal in Dash Central.

Case A: The proposal is not approved

Here is not way to make a reimbursement to the funders, but if each one supported the proposal with a small amount of Dash, the loses are lower.

Case B: The proposal is approved

Once the Budget withdrawal the funds, Dash Fund makes reimbursement to each founder in the same address from where they fund (the total 5 Dash)

Also, Dash Fund withdrawal the rest of Dash to the Person A.

Update 1: The payment must be made on a multisig wallet 2 of 2 (Dash Fund and Proposal owner)
Update 2: Please refer to dashfund dot org in order to see a small infographic.

TECH DETAILS

Each pre-proposal submitted to Dash Fund will have a unique address for crowdfund.

The founders don´t need to sign up. The reimbursement (if apply) is made to the same address from where they contributed.

When a proposal doesn´t reach the 5 Dash fee, the founders get reimbursement of their Dash.

COSTS:

Reimbursement (of this one): 5 Dash
Domain, hosting and development: calculating…
Management: calculating…

NOTES:

- This is just a proposal to develop a way to help fund 5 Dash to those who doesn´t have it.

- Although this proposal seems similar to “Grassroot crowdfunding system”, the goal of this is just help fund 5 Dash fee to submit proposals at Dash Budget. If the proposal is approved the founders get reimbursement. I don´t think there´s competition here, both proposal makes use of crowdfunding with a different way for a different goal.

- Many pre-proposals in the Dash Forum have good comments of people that likes the idea. Each one of these supporters can help with an amount of Dash to crowdfund the 5 Dash fee.

- This system promotes collaborative environment. If 1 person pay the 5 Dash fee and the proposal is not approved, this person lost a considerable amount. But if..say 15 persons support the 5 Dash fee and the proposal is not approved, each one loses an small amount.

- This System can be used like “filter” to see the acceptation of the proposal in the community, helping to powering it.

- This proposal although seem similar to "Grassroots Crowdfunding System", but have a different system and a different goal. Him tries to crowfunding small projects with a plan of score, mine one tries to crowfunding the 5 Dash fee to submit a proposal at budget, with the posibility of get reimbursement to the funders (If the proposal is voted YES).

This proposal will be submitted only if it works in the way it proposes (crowdfunding the 5 Dash), as a way to show (or not) its relevance

I encourage to everyone who believes in THIS proposal to make together the first exercise of FUND IT

XtqEiGvHZ9oubwwaNrcZ7iJY5CJ2KJqp77

 
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Instacoins

Member
May 27, 2017
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I think 5 dash is minor and it precents people from spamming. Even though currently many proposals seems to be commercial projects trying to let the community pay for their Launch. Everyone can post their idea prior to submiting it before paying 5 dash. If someone has an awesome idea I am sure someone would pay the 5 dash.
 

Kozz

New Member
May 31, 2017
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As Dash grows, a coin may cost a fortune tho.

I just posted a proposal. And apparently I need to wait 48 hours minimum before I can buy coins to get verified. Hopefully this madness will end when Dash evolution launches.
 

Wilmar Toro

Member
May 30, 2017
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I see dash only going higher. Its also a Problem for me.
Yes, The rate Dash/fiat is changing, The value of each Dash get higher, but the MN still with the vote of "NO" to any proposal to adapt the fee (1 Dash, 0.1 Dash, Adaptative fee). This is the reason I made this pre-proposal. We will see what the community and MN think about it.
 

Acedian

Member
Mar 17, 2017
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Dash Address
XeMABbcebB5yeZH2HxsV7yLNJA9hbzMgpz
A lot of elitists seem to think Dash proposals should cost a fortune. It is the Bitcoin scaling problem, massive fees and people think that is good...

Privileged westerners think 5 Dash is nothing to a "spammer". This is of course wrong, but I have given up on these people and hope they don't destroy Dash.
 

Instacoins

Member
May 27, 2017
51
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A lot of elitists seem to think Dash proposals should cost a fortune. It is the Bitcoin scaling problem, massive fees and people think that is good...

Privileged westerners think 5 Dash is nothing to a "spammer". This is of course wrong, but I have given up on these people and hope they don't destroy Dash.
I think you are forgetting that you can bring an idea on the table without making a proposal.
 

Acedian

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Mar 17, 2017
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Nope, I am not forgetting that. You are forgetting that only 1% of masternode owners bother to give input on "table ideas".
 

Instacoins

Member
May 27, 2017
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You cannot enforce feedback. Neither can you by lowering the proposal fee. Forcing MNs to read many ideas
 

Acedian

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Mar 17, 2017
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Is $500 better at stopping spam than $100? I think not. If someone is willing to risk $100 I think we (MNO) should read that proposal. Lazy MNO shouldn't have a place here.
 

Instacoins

Member
May 27, 2017
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Is $500 better at stopping spam than $100? I think not. If someone is willing to risk $100 I think we (MNO) should read that proposal. Lazy MNO shouldn't have a place here.
If someone is willing to invest 120k he deserves to be hear. But I agree that at some point the fee might need to get lowered.
 

Acedian

Member
Mar 17, 2017
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I want a say in Dash because I want to see it succeed. That is my incentive to read and vote on every single proposal. I will keep doing this and making suggestions on how we can improve. Many of my ideas may well be short sighted, but it might just be the stupid idea that inspires a great idea.

MNO are getting paid, make them work for their money! Cheaper proposals, more ideas, more innovation.
 
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GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
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A trustless crowdfunding option would effectively bypass this and we've recently been told it's technically possible. I would therefore vote no on this proposal.
 
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Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
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- Although this proposal seems similar to “Grassroot crowfunding system”, the goal of this is just help fund 5 Dash fee to submit proposals at Dash Budget. If the proposal is approved the founders get reimbursement. I don´t think there´s competition here, both proposal makes use of crowfunding with a different way for a different goal.
I don't recall the specifities of the grassroot crowdfunding system, Are you implying that grassroot proposal is not reimbursing the fees if the proposal is approved ? I doubt it but I let you come back to me on that. Anyways, your project seems a lot similar to Martin's Rue project would you mind sharing the positive differences that makes yours better (I believe you are in direct competition with his proposal) because I'm not sure to have understood them ?
 

Wilmar Toro

Member
May 30, 2017
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I don't recall the specifities of the grassroot crowdfunding system, Are you implying that grassroot proposal is not reimbursing the fees if the proposal is approved ? I doubt it but I let you come back to me on that. Anyways, your project seems a lot similar to Martin's Rue project would you mind sharing the positive differences that makes yours better (I believe you are in direct competition with his proposal) because I'm not sure to have understood them ?
My idea was to solve this by creating a forum tipbot. Unfortunately, I'm spread too thinly lately, so this project is not active now.
Also check this thread, discussing a trustless solution pre-proposal-grassroots-crowdfunding-system
It seems his project don´t include a reimbursement. This is why I said our projects seems similar, but have a different system and a different goal. Him tries to crowfunding small projects with a plan of score, mine one tries to crowfunding the 5 Dash fee to submit a proposal at budget, with the posibility of get reimbursement to the funders (If the proposal is voted YES).
I have no talked with him but may be a good idea.

Also I updated the proposal, including a multisig capability (2 of 2) to manage the Dash payment (if apply)
 
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TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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It's interesting to see these two approaches to addressing this issue. I like this one in particular. What I'm looking for is a simple way for people to be able to sponsor proposals and assume a share of the risk, and that's exactly what this does. It would certainly be an improvement to the current method of trying to get crowdfunded by collecting tips in Slack, where there is no tracking to prevent overfunding, and funders do not automatically get their share back if the proposal does not happen or if it gets funded. It's important that the risk is still there -- people would only be incentivized to sponsor a proposal if they think it has a good chance to pass and they want the project to happen.

It would be nice if this could be implemented as a decentralized solution somehow, but in the absence of that, this would be better than the status quo. In the long run I would like to see a trustless method, but this could be acceptable at least in the short term so that people have an option. It would quell some of the concerns people have about it (which helps to alleviate a contentious issue), although the amount that a crowd-sponsoring system like this would actually be used remains to be seen. I'm not really convinced that the 5 dash barrier is preventing many passable proposals from being submitted in the first place. (The only actual example I have heard of was someone on reddit saying they wanted to run facebook ads but couldn't afford the 5 dash proposal fee, which frankly, I don't think would have passed)
 
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Wilmar Toro

Member
May 30, 2017
156
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Hi TroyDASH, thank you for your time reading the concept I propose.
You are right,a decentralized method would be the ideal, sadly how we saw the diferent proposals (1 Dash fee, 0.1 Dash fee, Adaptative fee) were not been supported. I saw a "proposal Evaluation committee" that personally don´t like because it is centralize the flow of proposals. In this one I am sketching the community is who support if they think it has a good chance to pass.

It would be nice if this could be implemented as a decentralized solution somehow, but in the absence of that, this would be better than the status quo. In the long run I would like to see a trustless method, but this could be acceptable at least in the short term so that people have an option.
Again, I agree with you, this one is a short term solution while the whole community (including MN, teams, users...etc) make a consensus about this now-issue. ¿What will happen the day when the fee overcomes the budget requested? (and this happens now with small proposals)

Finally I only can say that crowdfunding the 5 Dash fee can help shares the risk, can help some proposal-owners with loe budget submit a great proposal, can help to see the community aceptance or not.
5 Dash in one country or other may be a little or a big amount.

Thanks for your comment !
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
1,254
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If the average proposal size was 10 dash (5 for the fee, 5 for the project), there would be 700 proposals per month. Impossible for MNOs to properly evaluate that many so I don't think we should be worried about special accommodations for proposals where the requested amount is less than 30.
 

abob54

New Member
Jun 3, 2017
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Germany
Uncertain whether this is the right solution, but it definitely addresses an important issue. A more formal qualifying level for pre-proposals, along with reduced fees for select proposals could increase quality of proposals submitted, and volume of proposals to choose from. (lower submission fees = greater labor supply, more competition/selection)
 

Wilmar Toro

Member
May 30, 2017
156
45
88
Uncertain whether this is the right solution, but it definitely addresses an important issue. A more formal qualifying level for pre-proposals, along with reduced fees for select proposals could increase quality of proposals submitted, and volume of proposals to choose from. (lower submission fees = greater labor supply, more competition/selection)
You are right, this solution I propose can help to solve at this time the 5 Dash "issue", like other community members said before, the ideal solution need to be developed in the protocol, but MN still negative nad/or the proposals of reduce the fee are unattractive to them.
 

Wilmar Toro

Member
May 30, 2017
156
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I want to know if the Dash community belives in my pre-proposal like a way to crowdfund the 5 Dash fee for submit a proposal. This idea also helps to select ideas that the communite likes, this is like the way how community can "vote" (by crowdfunding) backing interesting pre-proposals that MN should consider.

Please, refer to http://dashfund.org and if you like this pre-proposal, you can be pioneer crowfunding this one XtqEiGvHZ9oubwwaNrcZ7iJY5CJ2KJqp77
If the 5 Dash fee is reached, I submmit it to Dash Budget
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
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Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Proposal Evaluation Committee

Hi Damian

Just want to find out if you are planning to submit your proposal officially, i.e. Pay the 5 Dash to submit it?
If so, do you agree to the PEC (Proposal Evaluation Committee) assisting you in preparing your Pre-Proposal?

The way we do it is to give a Report on your Proposal highlighting areas that you can improve.
As you improve the Proposal the Report is adjusted and this may be done a number of times (up to 5 or more), each time the chance of your Proposal being accepted by the MNO’s will increase.

The Report also has another function:
To give the Pre-Proposal a percentage mark. This percentage will make it possible to give the MNO’s and community a prioritized List of Evaluated Proposals. This list will save everyone time and increase the chance of your Proposal gaining votes.

However, please be aware that the PEC has not officially been accepted by the MNO’s. We are also in the Pre-Proposal phase, so you have no obligation to partake.
If you want to know who will be doing the Evaluations – see here: Official PEC Pre-P https://goo.gl/qrbeXK

If you do want to use our services (note this is a free service)
1. Please PM me on the Dash Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions Forum indicating agreement.
2. and if you have not done this yet, please read: How to submit a Dash Pre-Proposal https://goo.gl/7jmwXQ
3. Once you have read it you might want to adjust your Pre-Proposal before we submit the 1st Report, so I will wait for you to give us the go-ahead before we start the evaluation process.

If you don’t want the PEC to evaluate the Proposal – please PM me as well, then I won’t bug you again for an answer ;)

Good luck with your Proposal!
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
363
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Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Forgot to mention: We’ll be doing Reports on all Pre-Proposals in any case – towards the end of the cycle. ;)