Pre-Proposal: Integrating low-power IoT devices to a dash blockchain

Integrating low-power IoT devices to a dash blockchain. Is this a good idea?

  • yes

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • no

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • other

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • Total voters
    9

vazaki3

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This is a pre-proposal. In case we have a positive feedback from the dash community, I may put it as a proposal into the budget.

The idea is to build some miners that will use the Proof_Of_Coverage protocol and store their earnings into the Dash blockcain.


Since 2016 I have warned the Dash community about the idea (look here or here or here or here or here)

Some others work on this idea since 2013, and now the idea is already implemented in Helium (HNT), and has a huge success.
In helium they have the validators who are equivalant to the masternodes.

But there is still time for dash to recover and take part in the new upcoming IoT market.
So what do you think? Is this a good idea?
 
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vazaki3

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This will create a mesh network or just a regular hotspot?
What I have in my mind is a mesh network, similar to the Helium network.
But of course regular hotspots in crowdy places where bandwidth is needed urgently and could be paid, are also usefull.

Dash could implement payments for the InternetOfThings by using both mesh networks and regular hotspots, and by using different RF technologies like lora, wifi, 5G e.t.c.

All these could be investigated and be implemented, based on the opensource code of Helium, provided of course that the masternodes owners vote in favor of a bandwitdh coin, here in this strawpoll, and most importantly into the budget system in case a proposal is posted there.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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I dunno, not sure I want to see separate coins / tokens. The problem with tokens is that new ones can be issued with new compliance rules, making the old one redundant. Everything should be ground in dash to avoid such situation.
 

vazaki3

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I dunno, not sure I want to see separate coins / tokens. The problem with tokens is that new ones can be issued with new compliance rules, making the old one redundant. Everything should be ground in dash to avoid such situation.
No separate coins. Only Dash.

My proposal assumes that the RF/IoT nodes are paid directly in dash, and mine directly dash.

The Proof of coverage is an alternative way of mining. You are paid if you can prove that your RF/IoT node covers a certain area. In order to prove that, many nodes must be present in your area, so that the other nodes confirm that your node truly resides where it is supposed to reside. This is how Helium works.

Dash Masternodes could vote and allocate an amount from their Dash budget, and give it to the RF/IoT nodes who offer coverage or bandwidth services in the name of Dash.

The problem with tokens is that new ones can be issued with new compliance rules, making the old one redundant.
Dont forget that an IoT network resides locally, because it covers and serves a specific area. New rules is not necessarily a bad thing. Depends on the rules. Sometimes universal rules cannot be applied locally, and in that sense having rules that are allowed to vary locally is a good thing. For example the 5 dash proposal fee may be ok for US, but not for Nigeria. Thats why the Dash community should allow different rules for the local IoT networks, provided of course that these rules are not against the core values of Dash (as those are defined by the current majority of those who hold Dash voting rights) .
 
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GrandMasterDash

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Okay, understand, but I suspect this is way too radical for MNOs to accept.

This seems very similar to what I've previously suggested, to build a new node class for local content delivery e.g. streaming services that require fast and low latency connections. You need to prove this is a robust algo. From what I understand, one big problem Helium has is requiring centralized registration of the node.
 

vazaki3

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From what I understand, one big problem Helium has is requiring centralized registration of the node.
Yes...the proof of Coverage protocol of Helium has several flaws.
The registration was free and decentralized from 2013 until the begining of 2021, and the DoItYourself nodes were allowed.

But then a wonderfull hacker discovered a bug in the Helium Proof of Coverage protocol, and stole 1 million HNT.

Instead of fixing the bad design of the Helium proof of Coverage protocol, the incompetent Helium engineers , supported by the well known government's agents whose permanent goal is to control and destroy every crypto, they decided to ban the DIY nodes, turn the Helium registration centralized and transform all Helium nodes into "light Helium nodes", nodes that are prohibited for now on to carry a real blockchain. The Helium blockhain resides now only into the validator nodes, 2500 nodes (similar to the masternodes) who own more than 10000 HNT, govern the Helium network and (similar to Dash) are controled by the agents.

In this very moment, it is the perfect time for the Dash community to intervene, and in the name of decentralization, offer to the crypto community a real wireless/IoT decentralized bank.

The community of Dash should fix the design bug of the proof of coverage protocol, and make the IoT decentralization and the wireless decentralized bank possible, for the future generations to thank us and not blame us.
 
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vazaki3

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You can read the Helium whitepaper here.

This is how the proof of coverage works: a challenger constructs a multi-layer data packet (a multi-layer challenge ) which is broadcasted wirelessly to several targets. Each target signs the receipt, delivers it to the challenger, then removes their layer and broadcasts it for the next target. Then there is the transport fee. Devices using the network in order to send and receive data to and from the Internet must pay the Miners a transport fee. This fee compensates the Miner for delivering data packets between the Device and the intended router on the Internet.

I think that the important thing is the transport layer and that the proof of coverage and the challenge layer is not really needed. If someone gives you a packet, and the packet is finally delivered to its destination by the network, then you prove at the same time the coverage too, and the challenge is completed! So a multi-layer data packet , signed by the router that first serves the Device's data packet, then removes his layer and broadcasts it for the next router, until the final destination is reached, could be used as both a proof of transport and a proof of coverage, in order to mine coins.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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I think maybe you could ignore / bypass any need for changes to mining / treasury funds.

1. I think you could start with a working node that leverages dash quorums and registers to a masternode. You do this initially to demonstrate that this actually works as intended.

2. You split end user payments, 20% to the node operator and 80% to whoever delivers the data.

3. Once this proof of concept is complete and MNOs realize they can make more money, you then submit a proposal and code change to multiply the number of nodes by making these nodes independent of the masternode network. The masternode network will manage the Proof of Service to randomly verify and enforce data delivery, speed and latency requirements. This new node will have a collateral requirement to fit your desired coverage area e.g. 10 dash collateral to produce 462900 nodes.

4. If you ever get this far then the final step is a proposal to change treasury allocation, creating a 25% fund exclusively to fund content creation / streaming opportunities.
 
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vazaki3

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I think maybe you could ignore / bypass any need for changes to mining / treasury funds.

1. I think you could start with a working node that leverages dash quorums and registers to a masternode. You do this initially to demonstrate that this actually works as intended.

2. You split end user payments, 20% to the node operator and 80% to whoever delivers the data.

3. Once this proof of concept is complete and MNOs realize they can make more money, you then submit a proposal and code change to multiply the number of nodes by making these nodes independent of the masternode network. The masternode network will manage the Proof of Service to randomly verify and enforce data delivery, speed and latency requirements. This new node will have a collateral requirement to fit your desired coverage area e.g. 10 dash collateral to produce 462900 nodes.

4. If you ever get this far then the final step is a proposal to change treasury allocation, creating a 25% fund exclusively to fund content creation / streaming opportunities.
No.
I am not going to create any working prototype for dash.

I will ask for a decentralized-wireless-bank-developer-incentives-fund (similar to the protocol-developer-incentives-fund ). In case the wireless bank incentives fund is accepted by the masternodes, I will start compete with other developers who want the fund, create a prototype tied to dash and follow the steps you proposed.

The market is huge and very fast growing, as shown in the below map.

helium map.jpg


Why start working for the dash community in case they dont want it? No incentives for developers, no development. Developers are paid 10000$ per month for coding, they do not start working without incentives.

In case nobody cares here in dash (I am afraid this is the case, when I look at the voting participation in my strawpoll), I will propose the same to another crypto, until a developer incentives fund for a wireless decentralized bank is finally accepted somewhere.
 
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vazaki3

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<vote history>
Integrating low-power IoT devices to a dash blockchain. Is this a good idea?
yes
Votes: 2 66.7%
no
Votes: 1 33.3%
other
Votes: 0 0.0%


Total voters 3

</vote history>
 

vazaki3

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No.
I am not going to create any working prototype for dash.

I will ask for a decentralized-wireless-bank-developer-incentives-fund (similar to the protocol-developer-incentives-fund ). In case the wireless bank incentives fund is accepted by the masternodes, I will start compete with other developers who want the fund, create a prototype tied to dash and follow the steps you proposed.
Anyway.
I may spend 1 dash to propose for a decentralized-wireless-back-developer-incentives-fund, in case of course the proposal fee falls to 1 dash.
I would like to propose it, and let it being rejected, just to be 100% sure that the Dash masternodes are stupid indeed.

So, in case I will propose it, I would like someone to help me propose in proper english, because I do not speak or write english very well.
 

Sven

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How can the network be sure that you'd actually be able to deliver such a significant project? And why should we trust you that you will, even if you're able?
 

AgnewPickens

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How can the network be sure that you'd actually be able to deliver such a significant project? And why should we trust you that you will, even if you're able?

He helped code MNOWatch website, you may remember him as Demo, Tungfa used to ban him for his posts, but he comes up with a lot of good ideas.
 

vazaki3

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How can the network be sure that you'd actually be able to deliver such a significant project? And why should we trust you that you will, even if you're able?
This is #13

I am asking for a decentralized-wireless-bank-developer-incentives-fund (similar to the protocol-developer-incentives-fund ).
In case the wireless bank incentives fund is accepted by the masternodes, I will start competiting with other developers who also want the fund. And let the best win.
After approving an incentives fund, many developers may present many solutions. So the important question is, who you gonna trust to judge which solution is the best. Shall the network decide by vote?

But lets do the first step, and solve the problems one by one.
  1. Will the network approve an incentives fund regarding a wireless bank, so that the developers start working and competing on it?
  2. How much money this incentives fund may be? Will you vote the numbers on that?
  3. Shall the network or the core team decide which, among the many developers who may provide many solutions, is the best solution?
You have to answer the above questions. Competitive developers are a scarce resource, and they will not join and help your network unless you become serious.
 
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vazaki3

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When I posted this thread, the coinmarketcap snapshot was:

Historical Snapshot - 05 September 2021 | CoinMarketCap
Dash 56th coin (market cap 2,7 billion $) and HNT 64th coin ( market cap 2,3 billion $ )

2 months passed, nothing has been done, and here you are the new shapshot:

Historical Snapshot - 07 November 2021 | CoinMarketCap
Dash number 75 ( fallen at 2 billion $ market cap), HNT number 44 ( skyrocketed at 4.5 billion $ market cap).

Well done masternodes voters, once again you proved how much lazy and stupid you are. Keep up making bad decisions, keep up trusting bad actors, keep up preserving voting rights only for the stupid rich people, and dash will certainly perish.

Vote the numbers !
 
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vazaki3

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<vote history>
Integrating low-power IoT devices to a dash blockchain. Is this a good idea?
  • yes
    Votes: 4 -- 80.0%
  • no
    Votes: 1 -- 20.0%

  • other
    Votes: 0 -- 0.0%
    </vote history>
 
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vazaki3

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In the meantime, the HNT blockchain engineers are complete amateurs.
They reversed their blockchain! Yet, after doing such big mistakes, they still managed to double their marketcap in two months!
2.5 billion dollars more for them in two months, amazing isnt it!

I really wonder why Dash does not enter into this so profitable market of IoT devices.
Is Dash blockchain not as fast as it is supposed to be, in order to support IoT ?
What the Dash stress tests are saying?
Can Dash blockchain support transactions of 300.000 nodes, as HNT does?
 
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Sven

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...
Well done masternodes voters, once again you proved how much lazy and stupid you are. Keep up making bad decisions, keep up trusting bad actors, keep up preserving voting rights only for the stupid rich people, and dash will certainly perish.
As for "making bad decisions", assuming this refers to your idea, there was nothing for MNOs to decide on. Put a proposaal out and promote it! But I can already tell you, calling people lazy and stupid won't win you much support.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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To get this to pass you need to gather a team / crew / rabble of people you can put names to, list their their qualifications for the job and tell us that your collection of pirates are going on this journey. Not asking you to build this yourself, only to gather the enthusiasts you need to give it a try.
 
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vazaki3

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As for "making bad decisions", assuming this refers to your idea, there was nothing for MNOs to decide on. Put a proposaal out and promote it! But I can already tell you, calling people lazy and stupid won't win you much support.
What makes you think that I want to win support?
I dont care about support, especially the support of the stupid MNOs.
I care of revealing the truth.
 
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vazaki3

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To get this to pass you need to gather a team / crew / rabble of people you can put names to, list their their qualifications for the job and tell us that your collection of pirates are going on this journey. Not asking you to build this yourself, only to gather the enthusiasts you need to give it a try.
I dont care to get this pass, neither to gather a team of people to do this.

I only explained to you the missing opportunity, I also explained to you what you have to do in order to attract serious developers.
MNOs should approve an incentives fund in order to attract serious developers.
The serious developers (or managers) who are capable to implement what I am talking about (most of them earn more than 10000$ a month) , dont even bother to propose smth for your Dash network, and of course dont even imagine that they will spend 5 dash to propose to you. The MNOs have to decide an incentives fund, they have to spend the 5 dash, and then they may also have to beg the serious developers (or managers) to help them. Because this help costs more that 2 billion $ (if you take into account that the marketcap of HNT increased 2 billion $ the past two months, maybe this is the real value of the implementation of a wireless IoT bank).

After approving an incentives fund, many developers may present many solutions. So the important question is, who you gonna trust to judge which solution is the best. Shall the network decide by vote?
But lets do the first step, and solve the problems one by one.
  1. Will the network approve an incentives fund regarding a wireless bank, so that the developers start working and competing on it?
  2. How much money this incentives fund may be? Will you vote the numbers on that?
  3. Shall the network or the core team decide which, among the many developers who may provide many solutions, is the best solution?
You have to answer the above questions. Competitive developers are a scarce resource, and they will not join and help your network unless you become serious.
 
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vazaki3

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So is anyone interested in offering an insetive to a developper to built a wireless node and connect it to the dash blockchain? Dash blockchain is by far better in performance than the HNT blockchain.
I hope this community, among the 143 approx active voters/MNOs, to have 1 smart one.
Not all the 142 could be stupid, this is statisticaly impossible.

Blockhain as a service, for an HNT wireless node (which is open source)
Think about it, this is a call to the remaining smart people here.
 
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vazaki3

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<vote history>
Integrating low-power IoT devices to a dash blockchain. Is this a good idea?

yes
Votes: 4 --- 57.1%
no
Votes: 2 ---- 28.6%
other
Votes: 1 ---- 14.3%

</vote history>


After proving that this idea worths at least 2.3 billion $, there is still one stupid who recently voted no.
Stupidity is bigger than the universe.
 

vazaki3

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Big opportunity for dash.
HNT blockchain colapsed. Is out of order for two days!!!
300.000 customers disatisfied!
Its time for dash to move on and take part of the IoT market.
Wake up stupid!
 
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vazaki3

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Can you imagine the scorn if dash was down for two days?
On the other hand, big ship big waves.
HNT has 300.000 wireless nodes that produce many txs which the 2700 validators (the blockchain holders) are unable to handle.
Dash's daily txs are tiny compared to HNT's txs.

I suspect that HNT is under a DDOS attack.
Anyway, this is the perfect time for another IoT crypto to arrive and eat from the big market pie of HNT.
 

vazaki3

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<vote history>
Integrating low-power IoT devices to a dash blockchain. Is this a good idea?Edit
  • yes
    Votes: 4 - 50.0%
  • no
    Votes: 3 - 37.5%
  • other
    Votes: 1 - 12.5%