If Mastercard or Visa are actively preventing us from getting a Dash backed debit card, sue them?

solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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We have reason to believe that some big player in the US credit card industry is actively trying to prevent us from getting a functional Dash backed debit card going in N. America. I suspect that's against the law.

What would the community think about getting a legal opinion on that, and if our suspicions are true, go sue their pants off.

Or we could approach it the other way. Hire somebody in the industry to find out if that's actually happening, and if yes, then get a legal opinion, and if yes, then sue their pants off.

If that actually transpires, and if they are doing that, Dash would get a lot of press, likely very good press, and the Credit card companies might settle out of court and withdraw opposition rather than have their anti-competitive business practices paraded around in court. Or we win in court.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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Although I think research and legal advice would be a good idea, we are too small to win. Remember, we'd be footing the bill and fighting this on the behalf of every other crypto out there. I mean, all these other cryptos and debit cards want to know the answer to this. So I think, get the advice but let us grow and take them by stealth.
 

solarguy

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Although I think research and legal advice would be a good idea, we are too small to win. Remember, we'd be footing the bill and fighting this on the behalf of every other crypto out there. I mean, all these other cryptos and debit cards want to know the answer to this. So I think, get the advice but let us grow and take them by stealth.
We have 3 million dollars a month burning a hole in our pocket. Lawyers are expensive, but not that expensive. We could use a mere 5% of our treasury per month and buy 150 grand per month in lawyers and researchers. That is not a trivial amount of fire power.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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We have 3 million dollars a month burning a hole in our pocket. Lawyers are expensive, but not that expensive. We could use a mere 5% of our treasury per month and buy 150 grand per month in lawyers and researchers. That is not a trivial amount of fire power.
I don't actually know, but history shows the big guys can prolong this stuff for years and it can get quite ugly. But anyway, no point running before we can walk. I agree legal advice / research would be a good idea.
 

TroyDASH

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Why would this be against the law though? What actions do you think they might be taking that are illegal?
 

solarguy

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And just to clarify, as much fun as it would be, I'm not all gung-ho to go sue the big credit card company or companies, unless we decide that this is the fastest, most efficient and effective way to get back into the North American market, AND we must have incontrovertible evidence that they are holding us back and breaking the law.

At some point, we may need a relationship with a credit card company, as dirty as that makes me feel.
 

solarguy

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Why would this be against the law though? What actions do you think they might be taking that are illegal?
Anti competitive trade practices are many and varied, and almost always against the law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices

Making it tough on your competitors by being very good at is fine. You may even cause them to go out of business that way.

But if you use various means to insure that Dash cannot compete in the market, regardless of how competitive Dash would be in that market, that's against the law.
 

Vedran Yoweri

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Apr 29, 2015
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this is crybaby style. not classy at all. just let them be.
in 1 or 2 years we fund and take a stake in new card issuer company "fiatcard" and compete them out of their markets.
 

slamdunk

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deepstate is definitely up to something, I was using the UQUID card for several months and suddenly, it broke due to "banking relationships".

They can sanction this and sanction that, eventually they will be alone in their walled garden.
 

solarguy

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this is crybaby style.
You clearly have never met my attorney.

...not classy at all. just let them be.
in 1 or 2 years we fund and take a stake in new card issuer company "fiatcard" and compete them out of their markets.
But your point is well taken, they can only slow us down for so long.

But on the third hand, I'm in a hurry, and if some strategic legal action gets us there faster, I would still consider it.

I would very much like to know if it's going on. What we do with that information would still be an open question. I wonder...if there is somebody in our community that has connections to that level of the banking industry who could ask a few discrete questions...
 

camosoul

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this is crybaby style. not classy at all. just let them be.
in 1 or 2 years we fund and take a stake in new card issuer company "fiatcard" and compete them out of their markets.
Bingo.

If for some reason we feel like ignoring IX, and sticking with some busted card model when IX means we could skip that entirely...

Compete by elimination of their entire business model, not merely being better at it.
 

moonknight

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I don't think there is anything specifically related to Dash... several cards that exist / existed can be loaded with Dash or other cryptos. The main change that I have seen is that one of the only companies actually issuing the cards (WaveCrest), as opposed to simply operating the exchange services, stopped supporting cardholders who do not reside in the EU / EEA. Whether or not this was under pressure from Visa / Mastercard I can't tell, but Dash is not the only coin affected. But now it has begun to be feasible (ICOs / Blockchain funding) to create a company that could potentially acquire a banking license somewhere, partner with Visa / Mastercard as any other bank (I don't know what criteria they use for that, but Mistertango, for instance, is a licensed bank in Lithuania that issue debit cards and has ties to the crypto world), and directly issue the damn cards.
 

solarguy

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I don't think there is anything specifically related to Dash... several cards that exist / existed can be loaded with Dash or other cryptos. The main change that I have seen is that one of the only companies actually issuing the cards (WaveCrest), as opposed to simply operating the exchange services, stopped supporting cardholders who do not reside in the EU / EEA. Whether or not this was under pressure from Visa / Mastercard I can't tell, but Dash is not the only coin affected. But now it has begun to be feasible (ICOs / Blockchain funding) to create a company that could potentially acquire a banking license somewhere, partner with Visa / Mastercard as any other bank (I don't know what criteria they use for that, but Mistertango, for instance, is a licensed bank in Lithuania that issue debit cards and has ties to the crypto world), and directly issue the damn cards.
I would happily completely bypass the legacy banking system and go directly to issuing our own cards. What's it take to get a banking license in the U.S.?
 

solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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I don't think there is anything specifically related to Dash... several cards that exist / existed can be loaded with Dash or other cryptos. The main change that I have seen is that one of the only companies actually issuing the cards (WaveCrest), as opposed to simply operating the exchange services, stopped supporting cardholders who do not reside in the EU / EEA. Whether or not this was under pressure from Visa / Mastercard I can't tell, but Dash is not the only coin affected. But now it has begun to be feasible (ICOs / Blockchain funding) to create a company that could potentially acquire a banking license somewhere, partner with Visa / Mastercard as any other bank (I don't know what criteria they use for that, but Mistertango, for instance, is a licensed bank in Lithuania that issue debit cards and has ties to the crypto world), and directly issue the damn cards.
I would happily completely bypass the legacy banking system and go directly to issuing our own cards. What's it take to get a banking license and start issuing Dash backed credit cards? Uber partnered with Barlclays to issue their own credit card.....hmm.....
 

moonknight

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I would happily completely bypass the legacy banking system and go directly to issuing our own cards. What's it take to get a banking license and start issuing Dash backed credit cards? Uber partnered with Barlclays to issue their own credit card.....hmm.....
The thing is that in order to issue a Visa / Mastercard debit card, one has to have a banking license, at least that's the way I understand it. I don't know whether this is a Visa / Master demand or a regulatory one. Yeah, you see, Uber had to partner with Barclays in order to issue "their" cards - I suppose they are cards issued by Barclays that are simply branded "Uber".
 

akhavr

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Oct 11, 2014
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Remember, there was a pre-proposal earlier this year about buying a bank in Puerto Rico exactly for such purposes?..
 
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solarguy

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Remember, there was a pre-proposal earlier this year about buying a bank in Puerto Rico exactly for such purposes?..
I found the proposal intriguing. I found the qualifications of the proposer poorly matched to the task. I would still be interested in such a proposal from someone that demonstrates they have significant skills and experience in that area.
 

Luiz_Ant0n10

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as in an initial experiment would be more appropriate to make available a black card exclusive to Masternodes, such as the Amex Centurion Card. How about a partnership with Amex?
What is the Amex Centurion Card? And How to Get it!

However, a prepaid card available at airports would be able to assist a larger number of people. Understanding How Prepaid Cards Work:
:rolleyes:
 

solarguy

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Amex would be on the bottom of my list for desirable card issuers. And that specific card, you have to pay $2,500 a year just for the privilege of carrying around the mythical black card that is above the platinum. Special perks when you stay at those exclusive exclusive hotels, where a room is a thousand bucks a night.

That's not how I roll.
 

jesccs

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I think it is clear that traditional banking and the fiat debt system is going to defend its economic paradigm against the emerging crypto economy. To enter the legal field is to enter their land.
The best battle will be in the field of adoption, the decentralization of money, collective funding, DAO and the right to privacy.

Changes in the history of humanity have proven to be slow but irreversible.

regards
 

yocko

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I think all focus should be on those parts of the world that need DASH rather than want it to get rich. In those parts of the world, Visa and Mastercard mean nothing to the people. Yes, it would be great if all the bankers allowed us to use their system to overthrow them, however now we are a real threat they will never do this willingly.
DASH becoming the number one currency in places like Zimbabwe and Venezuela should be number one on everyone's list. This trading and speculating culture in cryptocurrency is poison and will only result in massive pumps and dumps.
DASH will only be used as a currency in these places where their money has failed. The first world will rather hodl or panic sell than use it day to day.
IMO all focus should be on Zimbabwe and Venezuela and others in this situation.
 

solarguy

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I'm all about helping the unbanked in every place that needs that.

I don't buy the false dichotomy that helping people in the developed world to use Dash as money will prevent or delay folks in Zim or Venezuela from getting access to Dash. I would suggest that the more people who use Dash as money (1st world, developing world, martian world, whatever world) that pushes forward adoption and ultimately winning.

Everybody needs honest straightforward money, AKA Dash.
 

yocko

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I'm all about helping the unbanked in every place that needs that.

I don't buy the false dichotomy that helping people in the developed world to use Dash as money will prevent or delay folks in Zim or Venezuela from getting access to Dash. I would suggest that the more people who use Dash as money (1st world, developing world, martian world, whatever world) that pushes forward adoption and ultimately winning.

Everybody needs honest straightforward money, AKA Dash.
Yes, there are us who believe it's needed everywhere now but our numbers are sadly low.
90% of "crypto enthusiasts" as it stands will cash out when they believe the price is not going up anymore. This is because they don't care about the real world application of this, it's just for the quick earn or the gamble.
If I was selling heaters and I was targeting a warm climate im not going to get many buying and using them, but if I target a cold climate it's a very different story, these heaters are a must because without them there is suffering.
Targeting our attention on the places that really need it will break us away from our teather of bitcoin.
Wasting money fighting banks visa and MasterCard will only make DASH the hated cryptocurrency and the one they will forever try to hinder.