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Dash Community Q&A (2-Part Post)

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by Liz R, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. Liz R

    Liz R New Member
    Dash Core Team

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    --

    Hello Dash Community,

    Lots of questions arose from the Dash community following the Q4 call, and the Core Team wanted to take this opportunity to address these. We pulled as many questions as we could find from the Dash Forum, Discord and SubReddit, and provided answers to each of them below. We hope you find these helpful as we continue towards our mission to deliver the world’s premier peer-to-peer payments network.

    I. Community & Communication

    Is it that hard to hire/delegate one person from the Core Team just for the purpose of interaction with the community?

    It is not hard to hire / delegate one person from the Core Team just for the purpose of interaction with the community, but we do not believe doing so would be effective. The difficulty is not in appointing a person to communicate with the community, but rather to ensure that person remains informed about everything that the community may want to know. To produce Evolution, we have are evolving our protocol, and also our business. We have new teams, and new challenges as we scale. We are learning as we work our way through this. We acknowledge that we need to put out more information to the community, and this Q&A is part of our efforts to do so. Instead of designating one person, we believe communication should be a company wide initiative and are taking steps to empowering team members to converse more frequently with the community.

    What is the single best and most reliable avenue or and person for the community to reach out to Core with questions?

    We plan to repeat this Q&A process each month. One person in the team will collect a series of unanswered questions from our various discussion outlets and have the team answer them.

    If the core team doesn’t want to communicate and provide solid updates after 2 years, to ensure their secrets are safe, then eventually investors will start to exit their positions to reduce their risk profile just in case Evolution never shows its face. Hasn’t anyone noticed how much great news we have had yet we continued to drop to #12? Once we drop out of top 20 it’s going to be extremely hard to claw our way back.

    At Dash, our goal is to provide people a better way to pay, not to increase the price of the Dash price in relation to other cryptocurrencies. That means focusing on delivering product. While it is true that Dash has dropped in the market cap list, market capitalization as a metric does not fully measure the value of a cryptocurrency the same way as a traditional share.

    Who would spear head and can we get support from core to have a full time communications and support team that would be dedicated to updating our development status as well as customer and merchant support?

    As stated in a previous question, we believe communication should be a company wide initiative and are taking steps to facilitate more open discussion between our team members and our community. Regarding a support team, we have been testing a helpdesk for a few months now with the help of a couple people from the community. They have been solving tickets from users and merchants with great effectiveness. It has not been announced before because we needed to keep it small while we learn. We are currently growing the team so we can launch this program at scale.

    Is this level of opaque development and announcing new features like collateralized mining only to abandon them without comment going to continue?

    Dash Core Group values stability, predictability, and comfort as well as transformation, flexibility, & adaptability. Finding this balance is not easy. Software development is an environment fraught with change. Discomfort with change is common, and that’s why teams who deal with change well, and adapt in an agile manner, are more likely to succeed.

    Back when we had a smaller and more close knit community, ideas might have been released somewhat prematurely without allocation of actual people to work on them. The idea behind collateralized mining isn’t completely abandoned. Originally it was thought up to solve certain problems and give more control to the masternode network and away from miners who could potentially attack the network without a stake in Dash. We still plan to try to find a way to address this problem, just at a time when we have the resources and brainpower to commit to it.

    II. Core Team

    How satisfied is core with the growth rate of the team to date? How much growth do we expect to see in 2018?

    Dash the cryptocurrency was released in 2014. Dash Core Group was incorporated in 2017. In those three years Dash went from a small team of volunteers to over 75 employees. Overall we believe that we are taking the right steps to “fold-in” all the new team members as quickly and efficiently as possible.

    As far as Github commit access (including Evolution's private repo), sporks, and other essential access, is there a contingency plan to pass these on in case of a catastrophe befalling the Core team so that Dash continues on without losing years of development work?

    As we stated in the previous Quarterly Call, we have implemented several ways to avoid losing any bits of code. This is why there are already 42 people (mostly devs) on the GitHub private organisation. We think that this has lowered this risk to near zero.

    As Core rapidly grows, would it make sense to decouple other functions of Core?

    There are two definition of Core: The Dash Core Group (all of us), and the Core Team, which mostly works on the core software. Dash Core Group is already decoupled to some degree. We have multiple teams working on different things, syncing with each other as needed. Examples include: the Core Team, Mobile Team, DAPI Team, Drive Team, Frontend/UI/UX Team, Integrations Team, Business Development Team, and the Legal Team. The Core Team, responsible for the development of the core Dash software (dashd, dash-qt, …) is just one of these teams. Most work of this team is currently Open Source and contributions are welcome from everyone. The parts that are not Open Source at the moment will become Open Source in the future. Large parts of this will become Open Source before other parts of Evolution are released. This is to ensure enough review and discussion occurs before deployment, and ensures the deployment itself is effective.

    There are also efforts from outside of Dash Core Group to establish independent DAOs. For example, the Dash Embassy D-A-CH DAO concentrates on adoption, integration, marketing and support in the German speaking market. We fully encourage such development, but the community must understand that we can’t put as many resources into these DAOs as we put into our own teams and entities. Long term, these external DAOs must be able to fully function independently, with their own funding and structures.

    Once the DAPI is live, are there any long term plans to decouple Evolution from the main Core team? Perhaps this would allow a competitive environment, encouraging alternative wallets / interfaces to be built with the DAPI.

    Evolution is a code name that refers to an upgrade of the Dash protocol. This upgrade will update the Core, add Drive, and API into the protocol. In that sense, DAPI would not be decoupled. Alternative wallets, interfaces, and DAPs (Decentralized Application Protocols) are assumed to be part of the future for the Dash Evolution Platform, built with the DAPI & the DAPI SDK.

    III. Technology
    We received many great questions around technological aspects of Dash - so many, in fact, that we felt many of them merited a separate blog post. The team is working on this blog post outside of this update, so please stay tuned for a more tech-focused update soon.

    Why is PrivateSend still such a slow, expensive, and unreliable user experience even after Evan claimed PrivateSend's problems were all fixed (back when Masternode blinding was supposedly "done" many years ago)?

    While we are constantly working on improving various factors that contribute to the Private Send experience, a limiting factor is the number of participants required in order to mix funds. We are currently working on strong consensus based solutions that will allow Private Send to be used in SPV wallets. At that point, accessibility will be strongly improved, which should lead to improved speed and overall user experience.

    Unfortunately, privacy always degrades the system in some way. An attempt to implement Masternode blinding was indeed made; however, it was decided not to continue down that path because it was incompatible with the requirements for Evolution for this reason. While there are still ways to satisfy both Masternode Blinding and DAPI we decided to come back to this discussion once Evolution was a mature product.

    Should Dash be worried about Quantum computing?

    Dash Core Group recognizes that this technology has the potential to disrupt more than just the 11 algorithms used to secure the Dash network, but all algorithms used to secure all networks. We are partnering with the ASU Blockchain Research Lab on scaling, and future options for network capabilities. Together, we are monitoring the situation as best as we can, and if we discover developments that could potentially affect us, we will likely raise a flag, reflect, and take action.

    Assuming proof-of-work continues to become less sustainable as the network grows, does Dash Core have a plan to switch to a different consensus mechanism such as proof-of-stake or proof-of-activity?

    The assumption that proof-of-work will become less sustainable as the network grows has neither been proven nor is the current view inside the core team. The proof-of-work model is proven and based on an economy of supply and demand for power. Proof of stake has some shortcomings when it comes to economics, as demonstrated by early coins that adopted it.

    We however have near term plans for implementing a strong proof of service system as an additional layer for all Masternode related services and rewards. This is not meant as a consensus mechanism, but rather as a security mechanism to ensure a functioning and honest Masternode network.

    --

    **Please see the following post for the second half of this update.**
     
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  2. Liz R

    Liz R New Member
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    Post 2/2
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    IV. Product & Roadmap

    Is it possible to have a "dynamic roadmap" updated every month with new information, as well as completed milestones "checked off" so that the community does not miss important completed developments?

    We are in the process of standardizing product development, as well as hiring a CTO. Our delivery team is working with external consultants on the implementation of agile development methods. One of the very first steps defined in this process is the creation of a “master backlog”, led by our Product Owners and Architects. The Master backlog will contain prioritized high level requirements, epics and user stories that define the Dash products (Evolution). Definition of a master backlog will allow us to optimize the development roadmap and include high level milestones. We plan to continue to publish the monthly progress report to give the community insight into these items as we evolve.

    How is Dash going to compete with the nearly zero fees and nearly instant confirmation times of much Bitcoin's Lightning Network (which doesn't require paying Masternodes)?

    The strength of our governance model and our self-funding treasury system will ensure we will be able to compete against crypto coins offering services with similarly quick and inexpensive transactions. We are an active protocol which is able to invest in our partnerships and proactively grow the ecosystems through ongoing partnership management and marketing/promotion. This sets us apart from more passive protocols who are more reactionary by nature and rely on donations of money and resources in order to grow their networks.

    Will Evolution have a merchant app store?

    We are still determining the various ways to deploy Evolution components.

    What Dash Evolution features promised by 2017 are now released?

    None. We failed to estimate accurately. We’re taking steps to prevent such mistakes from happening again by reorganizing our teams and introducing more predictable delivery methodologies, such as the agile practices mentioned above.

    Will a multi currency evolution wallet implementation be possible?

    This is currently being evaluated and prioritized for version 13 or the following release.

    Will Evolution allow for scheduled payments?

    This is currently being evaluated and prioritized for version 13 or the following release.

    What's Evolution's recovery process for lost passwords?

    Lost passwords are not expected to be recoverable. The mnemonic phrase that generates a user’s private keys should be backed up immediately upon wallet or blockchain user account creation. At this time, it is expected that using your private key backup, you can “re-import” your account, and reset your password this way automatically.

    Will we have an Android and IOS SDK after Evolution comes out?

    The first version will be web-based. We expect to be working to port the first functioning version of the web-based SDK into popular platforms and frameworks once the design and implementations are solidified and functioning in production environments. We are also considering offering code-bounties for this work. If you would like to contribute, please reach out to us!

    Is Dash Evolution being delayed? And will we see a beta in 2018?

    We are not actively or purposefully delaying the delivery of Dash Evolution. We are aiming for a Q3 release.

    Has anyone seen what PayPal have put forward? Instant and friendly transactions? Could that be a real threat to evo?

    Our goal at Dash is to provide people a better way to pay, which means faster and more affordably. In the crypto and blockchain space, that means providing a more friendly user experience. Paypal is a competitor. Instant and friendly transactions are competitive features. Paypal and others will also be able to create user friendly experiences.

    When comparing ourselves against a competitor, we look at the entire value chain and how competitors solve problems. Our problem is that payments take too long and cost too much. In Paypal’s case, they are narrowing the gap for consumers, but not for merchants. If you receive money for goods or services (such as from selling an item on eBay), the fee for each transaction is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you receive. With Dash, the fee for each transaction is set at the cost of an InstantSend transaction or standard transaction (a few cents). As a centralized company, Paypal will struggle with being able to compete by reducing profit margins. Because Dash is decentralized and peer-to-peer, Dash will retain an edge with instant transactions and micro-fees.

    V. Partners & Exchanges

    Does core plan on officially providing technical assistance to atomic swap exchanges much like they support centralized exchanges? Is this a priority now or will it become a priority?

    Dash Core Group, Inc. is providing assistance with Dash integration to partners that bring value and scale to the network. If atomic swap exchanges are bringing tangible value to the Dash network, we will be working with their teams the same way as we work with other partners.

    When it comes to priorities, Business Development’s focus is less on smaller individual merchants, and more on larger channel partners to enable rapid growth at scale (for example, a single integration with GoCoin provides access to 500 merchants).

    Is Dash considering any strategic partnerships/integrations with other crypto's?

    Dash Core Group is likely to consider partnerships with long-standing institutions. We do not expect to fund startups or new project ventures. However, the Masternode Network is free to fund whichever projects it sees fit.

    Is there a plan to create a merchant support team? Again currently fragmented and not easily discovered.

    Merchants are a key customer segment for Dash to grow. Merchant onboarding is a much needed support service. With Evolution, we will be building out clear documentation and services to enable potential merchants to integrate Dash with ease.

    What’s happening with Alt36? Any updates?

    Dash Core Group, Inc. is not tracking or reporting on other Dash Masternode funded projects at this time. Please direct specific network-funded project questions to the respective project owners.

    What’s the best option for exchanging fiat for Dash?

    “Best” is different for every person, and every fiat. The generally available options are:
    • Peer-to-peer exchange (find a friend, or another person)
    • Trusted and regulated exchanges (please remember to NOT store your coins on the exchange, even if it is the most reliable institution on the market)
    • Brokers available in your area
    VI. Proposals & Projects

    What is Core's policy of acting as escrow for proposals? In cases where this is the best avenue, who would the point of contact be for Core-stewarded escrow?

    We provide escrow service to any proposal owner that requests it. We only filter for obvious problems like gross incompetence or obvious harm to the network. The filter is intentionally loose because we don’t want to be arbiters; we are only providing escrow as a service to the network to correct for lack of accountability once the proposal has been paid. The ones that should be deciding are the Masternode owners when voting. For that reason, we make it very clear that escrow doesn’t imply endorsement.

    In the long run, we would probably prefer to let professional escrow companies to step in and provide this service to the network, while Dash Core Group would stay focused on product development and support.

    Regarding the best point of contact for this service, we have been sharing this responsibility between our CEO, CMO, and Head of Business Development. However, our new CFO will likely take on this responsibility once fully onboarded.

    Since Core proposals usually pass overwhelmingly and request a respectable amount of funding, is it possible for the community to receive a "heads up" a few weeks in advance that a proposal is planned that cycle so as to leave room in the budget?

    Unfortunately, we don’t always know the specifics weeks in advance. We try to communicate as much as possible, as early as possible - and with our new CFO, we expect improvements in this front - but anyone doing a proposal needs to know that he or she may need to compete for the funds.

    Dash Core Group has not been requesting much funds in the last few cycles because the rise in price through 2017 made it unnecessary, but that will not always be the case.

    What measures are being taken, so that business projects financed by the Dash treasury can give an ROI to the community?

    We can only speak to the business projects by Dash Core Group. (There are many others being financed by the treasury that have little to do with us.) It is worth mentioning that ROI implies a monetary return on an investment. Since the network doesn’t receive payment from any project,the concept can’t be applied in a traditional way. We analyze whether the benefits to the network are commensurate with amount spent, and evaluate the opportunity cost of not realizing those benefits.

    Does Dash Core Group’s escrow service, lead to centralization?

    No, there is no such threat as Dash Core Group is only one of the actors that do escrow in the ecosystem, and it is not compulsory. Therefore everyone is free to do proposals without escrow, or with someone else’s escrow. It is also worth mentioning that Dash Core Group provides the escrow service free of charge, providing our internal resources to maintain the process. In the long run, we would probably prefer to let professional escrow companies to step in and provide this service to the network, so Dash Core Group may stay focused on product development and support.

    VII. Legal

    How is Dash going to handle the regulatory crackdown coming due to it being marketed as an investment in a common enterprise (triggering the Howey test)?

    Dash is not being marketed as an investment and there is no enterprise selling it, so there is no way it can be considered a security using the criteria in the Howey test.

    Can we have more information about the patent being filed?

    The patent was filed in early March. Now that we are legally protected, we will start releasing information in the Spring. Please refer to our recent press release for more information.

    --

    Thank you,
    Dash Core Group
     
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  3. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
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    Thanks Elizabeth. I would like to thank the core team in answering the question on any plans for a "support desk" service for merchants. This is very amazing and very good news. Great post and I'll be re-reading this again later today! Cheers!
     
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  4. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    A+
    Thanks for the responses
     
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  5. jimbit

    jimbit Well-known Member
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    Awesome update, THANK YOU.
     
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  6. mikebam

    mikebam New Member

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    Where exactly did these questions come from and how can you ask some? Shouldn't you have a proper channel to make everyone's life easier?
     
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  7. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member
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    Amazing update, thank you!
     
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  8. Nuancer

    Nuancer Member

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    Great update, glad to see that several of the questions I had have been answered with informative responses.

    Regarding the Help Desk, has Dash Core considered setting up a Zendesk account? I have seen many other cryptos use that service and it seems very user friendly and helpful.
     
  9. JOL

    JOL Member

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    Dear Dash Core Group, Liz,

    It's a real improvement in communication. We asked for it, you did it.
    It is informative about the current situation and what is to come.
    Thank you and good continuation in this way.
     
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  10. Ezio Rojas

    Ezio Rojas Member

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    Thank you very much for updating the information on everything what you are doing.

    Personally I see fantastic that there is this information for the whole community.

    Keep doing a great job.
     
  11. studioz

    studioz Well-known Member

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    just missing Evan now ! we miss him !
     
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  12. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
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    These were asked in the Q4 call. You can post questions there for during the core team call. That is where the questions came from. Hope that helps.
     
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  13. DAOMN

    DAOMN Member

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    You are in a "channel" now. I think if you came to this forum and directed your question to a specific person/team, you would get an answer. There are many examples of this throughout the forum. Discord is probably the most active DASH channel.

    From OP: "We pulled as many questions as we could find from the Dash Forum, Discord and SubReddit, and provided answers..."
     
  14. TLC

    TLC New Member

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    Informative. Keep up the good work.
    Please continue to update the community like this regularly, the positive effect on the community cannot be underestimated.
    Not to mention it will mean we don't have to read long threads about not receiving updates or news from core ;-)
     
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  15. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member
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    Who's working on this, so I can contact him to get more information? It's important for us, since we're two-person team, supporting Dash Electrum.

    Thanks
     
  16. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    We are using Freshdesk, which is very similar. We did however, evaluated Zendesk. If my memory serves me well, the reason to go with Freshdesk was that it could go multilingual at a lower product tier than Zendesk. Currently we are only working in English but we want that option for the future.
     
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  17. dashnode

    dashnode New Member

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    Is this referring to crypto, fiat or both?
     
    #17 dashnode, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  18. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member
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    I think I can give a complimentary answer: We currently have a general purpose support desk, we have actually been running the support desk in stealth for over a year. This is NOT the same as a merchant specific support desk but we have been planning to develop additional team members with a technical focus (something currently handled by Splawik21 on the normal support desk). It is logical that this position, once filled, could provide Tier 1 support to merchant partners and perform triage and escalation of merchant issues to the appropriate people in the development team.

    Pablo.
     
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  19. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
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    Thanks Pablo...this would be a very big leap in the merchant crypto ecosystem. The biggest complaint i've heard time and time again when visiting crypto currency merchants around the world was that though in the beginning when the merchants were enthusiastic when they first started accepting crypto...they quickly fell out of love once issues arose and no "tech support" was available to help.
     
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  20. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member
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    I agree with you that merchant support is a major issue. I think the trick it to get a technically able person in Tier 1 support, but you will still have bottle necks in Tier 2 as Core Team devs are not going to be any less busy because "support" comes calling instead of the merchant directly. But yes, this idea would allow us to better manage the quality of the merchant experience as well as their expectations. People are often happy to wait if you explain it to them properly and meet the expectations you set for them.

    I am really psyched about this and we are getting momentum behind the project.

    Pablo.

    PS: Its nice seeing you btw, I have been away from the forums but I always appreciate reading your posts :).
     
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  21. Joney Castellanos

    Joney Castellanos New Member

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    Thank you very much for the information, in a couple of post I have solved several questions, interesting perspectives leave me that.
     
  22. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    I think it might be referring to a suggestion of mine; given evolution is managing dash HD wallets, it wouldn't take much to also manage HD wallets for other cryptos such as bitcoin. The masternodes don't have to manage multiple chains, only the private keys. Sending bitcoin (and others) using dash usernames would be a huge opportunity to convert people to dash.
     
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  23. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    I much prefer the old way of communicating. It was unpolished and dirty and muddled; and that's what proved it was real development. I could trust it. It was real.

    As "unstable" as it appeared to those inexperienced with the R & D process, DASH isn't aimed at slick smoke and mirrors anyway. Raw-ness was the stability, because it's the truth of how this works.

    On these two points, you deflected instead of answering the questions.

    I understand.

    But this leaves the problem in place.

    Just because it's difficult does not mean it should be ignored...

    Yeah. It's hard. Cry me a river. Step up, buttercup! Put on your big girl panties and get to work!

    Market cap position is market exposure.

    Especially since you've let DASH rot on the vine for so long, the IRS functionally banning all innovation and leaving ponzi as the only permitted development path went perfectly in ending all forms of marketing. It's as if you've had your head in the sand these last few years. And when you do finally start talking to us, which is appreciated, your words expose that, yes, you are a bit detached from reality... You don't seem to understand the environment you're in or how it's changed...

    I'm not sad to see the marketing bans on all the shitcoins...

    But it leaves DASH in a tough spot. Market Cap is pretty much the only exposure available. It's not merely about "to the moon" nonsense, as you attempt to write it off as here... You're never going to have an advertising campaign now. At least not the easy, sit on the couch sort that you were hoping for. You're going to have to deal with old media, and you don't seem to have put a single thought to that... Magazines, TV, Billboards... I did see a quick shot of DASH on a recent JetBlue flight...

    It's become MORE important as virtually all other aspects of potential marketing have been disappeared by the bad actors of this space; encourage by the IRS's purge of anything that's not a bad actor...

    Worse, it's your budget. You let it tank, you can't pay your employees anymore. We just saw the end of the marketing proposals and the advertising bans were written off as a blessing in disguise because DASH can't afford it anymore anyway... Yes, even more obscurity and doubt, that's what we need... It's a feature, not a bug... You tied your ability to get anything at all done, and in the same breath say it doesn't matter... Nope. Your budget comes directly from the price and market cap. You can't tell me it doesn't matter when it's the backbone of the whole project. To hear you say so is worrying... Either you think I'm really stupid and wouldn't notice, or you genuinely have no idea how this works... You need to stop being a boat that rises and falls on the tide; and become the tide. You're not going to do that by hiding in your secret lab occasionally sending out a Trump clone to tell us "it's gonna be great"

    This is a lot more important than you seem to believe it is...

    #MakeDashGreatAgain
     
    #23 camosoul, Mar 31, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
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  24. ampp

    ampp Member

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    I originally asked this question "How satisfied is core with the growth rate of the team to date? How much growth do we expect to see in 2018?"

    The 2nd part to the question was misunderstood on the call and i want to further clarify the question: How much growth (in the core team) do we expect to see in 2018.

    Thanks
     
  25. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    the growth in 2017 was very satisfying
    as we grew so much in value (20 - 1k US per coin) it all went a bit crazy and we had to scale (scale or fail) to keep everything on track and have enough resources to push forward with multi projects

    for 2018 there are still some spots to be filled but it will not be (i believe) in such extend as in 2017

    remember
    it does not come down to Dev numbers only
    it comes down to productivity
    and to ensure that there have to be enough project managers and the likes to ensure that
     
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  26. acidburn

    acidburn Active Member

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    How does the drop on market cap / price affect the moral in the team?

    What’s the plan to get the market cap / price to grow again? I’m not talking about speculative investment here. I’m talking about real growth.

    It concerns me that you’re not bothered about the decline in price but it does have an affect on the whole ecosystem. The treasury pays your salaries so in my opinion it’s in your best interest to keep the price stable and on an upward trend.


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  27. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    obviously the price decline affects everybody
    but
    even more obvious the whole market went though a massive bull run - last summer to peak in December / Jan
    yes prices are down - it does not affect us in moral or the likes
    adoption , transaction volume , releases , inventions and their development is what it is all about for the team
    we leave the price speculations to others ;)
     
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  28. acidburn

    acidburn Active Member

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    Yes. Speculation and value is for the market but at some point they becomes a cross over where the books no longer balance. Eg, core group needs more funds than what the treasury can provide.


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  29. demo

    demo Active Member

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    "Gravity" - taken from Once Human's upcoming album "Evolution". :D



    Why am I here?
     
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  30. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    Funding development is probably the #1 priority for the treasury so, if the price were to continue to go down then some other proposals might get bumped off in favor of making sure the core team is funded. If the price really took a doomsday nosedive then the core team might need to cut back to save on costs. Even at the current lows there is still plenty of wiggle room imo. Remember most projects don't even have a budget and they rely heavily on volunteer work or donations.
     
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