We should change voting from Masternodes to EVERYONE

Apr 23, 2017
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Twelve banks make up the Federal Reserve Banking system. Each of those banks has just a tiny handful of shakers and movers, so let's say between 100 and 200 altogether.

4,300 and growing looks much better than a hundred or two.

And the number of people who will have influence on the system will go up dramatically with Evolution and proportional voting.

How many is enough in you opinion?
You could also make the comparison to how many banks there are in the world, which might be more like 4 or 5 thousand.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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But back to my point, if our masternodes get that valuable, we'll end up with a central wealthy priesthood of sorts that very much likes being financially wealthy and so is extremely incentivised to make good budget decisions. I don't see a downside.
Good for what and who? They will be incentivised to make decisions that keep or make themselves richer than everyone else. This is human nature.

Does the current Dash system prevent that from happening both now and in the future?
 
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solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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Good for what and who? They will be incentivised to make decisions that keep or make themselves richer than everyone else. This is human nature.

Does the current Dash system prevent that from happening both now and in the future?

If the Masternode community does a good job,

and makes Dash an outstanding currency alternative,

and Dash adoption goes mainstream,

and people in countries like India and Venezuela and anywhere get a better option than their terrible local fiat

what is wrong with the people who made all those good decisions getting wealthy?

Why should my neighbor Bob, who drinks and smokes and watches soap operas and facebook all day, get credit or make money from Dash?

He contributes nothing to Dash.

The Dash ecosystem is still completely fair. Bob could invest in Dash tomorrow. It is available to anyone who wants to invest. How is that not fair?
 

demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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In that thread, I saw a lot of Demo telling the Dash community how they should run their community. I saw no evidence that spies and stupids are throwing a wrench in the works.
Until a proof of individuality is established, there is no community.
There is the greedy Dash generation of 2014-2016, there is a bunch of spies, and a bunch of hedge funds that pretend to be a community. And there is a bunch of stupid and naive that believe them.
 
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solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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Until a proof of individuality is established, there is no community.
There is the greedy Dash generation of 2014-2016, there is a bunch of spies, and a bunch of hedge funds that pretend to be a community. And there is a bunch of stupid and naive that believe them.

Soooo, what you're saying is, you have an interesting theory, but no evidence.
 

demo

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Soooo, what you're saying is, you have an interesting theory, but no evidence.

Some people want to stop the governance of Dash, thats why they want the governance questions to be expensive. Here is the evidence that spies bought Dash coins, in order to destroy the governance system.

Why asking to the MNOs some governance questions should be so expensive? After all the masternodes are not forced to answer!! They could ignore the questions, they could also filter from their own personal view all these governance questions that have not reached a desired voting participation.

Who is afraid the MNOs to be able to decide and to govern with accuracy?
The spies are.
 
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solarguy

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Some people want to stop the governance of Dash, thats why they want the governance questions to be expensive. Here is the proof that spies bought Dash coins, in order to destroy the governance system.

Why asking to the MNO's some governance questions should be so expensive? After all the masternodes are not forced to answer!! They can ignore the questions, they can also filter from their view and simply ignore all these questions that have not reached a desired voting participation.

Who is afraid the MNO's to be able to decide and to govern with accuracy?
The spies are.
If that is your proof, it is weak proof indeed. That proposal was problematic because the owner of the proposal had a good pre-proposal discussion about reducing the cost from 5 Dash to 1 Dash. But when he actually submitted the proposal, he changed it to 0.1 Dash, an order of magnitude lower. The proposal died rapidly and for obvious reasons. If you say you are going to do A, and then you do B instead, that is upsetting to people.

The second proposal, from the same person, never got traction because of the previous fiasco. Your proof is null and void.

But, based on the discussions going on in the Slack channel, I suspect we might get a cheaper alternative for opinion polls. As a masternode owner, I would support that.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Good for what and who? They will be incentivised to make decisions that keep or make themselves richer than everyone else. This is human nature.

Does the current Dash system prevent that from happening both now and in the future?
My point being that any group will be incentivised to make choices that improve their own situation, whether or not it improves the situation of those outside the group.
And many improvements are partly or wholly defined/by nature relative change rather than absolute, i.e. by increasing the individuals or groups situation relative to those outside the group rather than improving things for everyone.
"Banks" do not set monetary policy of the US dollar. The Federal Reserve makes that policy, and there are only 12 of them.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean they aren't a group that acts collectively in their own interests. And they are heavily involved in the management of that money supply.
 
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Apr 23, 2017
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The Dash ecosystem is still completely fair.
Depends what one's definition of fair is.
Is any type of uneven distribution of wealth fair?
Are some types of uneven distribution of wealth fair and others not?

I would agree that effort should be rewarded in some cases. But not others.
Let's consider Bob and Bill and Ben.
Bill has little money, works a low-paying job. He is smart enough to see Dash's potential as an investment and/or useful money, but does not have the means to invest in Dash except purchasing small amounts on the order of a few dollars by sacrificing some small luxuries or working more overtime.
Bob is wealthy, because he comes from a rich family. He is also smart enough to see Dash's potential as an investment and/or useful money, and has the means to purchase 1000s of Dash to make several Masternodes and so continuously gain more Dash in the future.
Ben also has little money, also sees Dash's potential, but on the tip of an insider, which he didn't pass on to his unknowing buddy Bill, borrowed a couple of hundred bucks off Bill on pay day, bought 10000 Dash for pennies at the start and is now a multi-millionaire.
Bob and Ben clearly have an advantage over Bill.
Is it an unfair advantage?
Do Bob and Ben deserve the advantage over Bill?

Do the terms fair and deserve even have real meaning in the universe other than that we assign via conceptual artifice?

I actually think the universe is inherently unfair, but that we can, by choice and effort, make it fairer, at least temporarily.
We can choose to play either a zero-sum or a non-zero-sum game.

Unless the universe is just completely deterministic and our confusion about choice and will is just a state and property of matter emergent at the scale of our brains, in which case ignore everything I just wrote. :)
 

solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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The discrepancy between Bill, Bob and Ben are unrelated to the governance system of Dash, and the decision making abilities of the Masternode community.

Our job as Masternodes is to make a currency that gives the economically disadvantaged people (like those you mention in your example) access to fair and honest money.

Beyond that, we have neither the power nor the obligation to fix those unfair circumstances.

But as a means to find people who understand the marketplace and how currency works, you would be hard pressed to find a more efficient test than, who has money and who doesn't. If you could suggest a test that is more efficient, and aligns the goals of Dash (to succeed as a currency) with the goals of the people who have decision making power in the Dash community, I'm all ears.

Just giving decision making power to everybody, because they are human, does not make for better decision making.
 

solarguy

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Let's expand your example of Bill. Not much money, and the implication is, not much opportunity to benefit from Dash. So unfair...

But let's assume Bill really is thoughtful and observant and has studied technology and cryptocurrency and the market and Dash specifically. He also has good writing skills and the ability to translate technobabble into language that normies readily grasp and appreciate. He starts writing articles and making youtube videos about the wonders of Dash, and BAM, he gets a proposal approved to get paid to do it. And further, BAM, he develops a relationship with the Masternode community and suddenly has real prospects and might just quite his low paying and unsatisfying day job.

Yeah, we just described Stellabella, except he's a she.


So yeah, if you have skills that can help Dash, which helps the whole world, then come talk to the masternode community.

And we are actively looking for more involvement and participation from:

women
the unbanked
anybody from Venezuela
anybody with skills in social media (that's the main purpose for Dash Force, which I predict will grow by leaps and bounds)
people who think Bitcoin is too expensive
coders
people with bilingual language skills to spread the message to all those people in countries with sad, controlled inflationary fiat currencies, which is a rather long list
etc etc etc.

Doesn't that strike you as very odd behavior from a bunch of rich, insensitive, snobby people who care about nothing but themselves?

We couldn't care less if you're a man or a women, or a dog. Or rich, or poor, or black or brown or purple or gay, or have two heads.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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I actually think the universe is inherently unfair, but that we can, by choice and effort, make it fairer, at least temporarily.
We can choose to play either a zero-sum or a non-zero-sum game.

Unless the universe is just completely deterministic and our confusion about choice and will is just a state and property of matter emergent at the scale of our brains, in which case ignore everything I just wrote. :)
You're right, the universe knows nothing of fair or unfair. But to a large degree, we can also make our own luck, we can increase opportunity.

From my experience, many poor people are poor through their own doing; they may be lazy, have unreasonable expectations on others, or unwilling to compromise their dignity or "principles". Personally, I'd rather pay a whore without debt than give money to a closed mind with unsecured debt.
 

younglegend

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Jan 1, 2017
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This project is not about building electronic democracy, this project is about building payment network. Serious investors can vote directly, everyone else can vote by buying/selling coins i.e. by (not) using services network provides.

I thought Dash project is to work like a decentralize company. I only have 50 shares in twitter and they ask my vote. Participation makes a world of difference.
 

solarguy

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I thought Dash project is to work like a decentralize company. I only have 50 shares in twitter and they ask my vote. Participation makes a world of difference.
As I understand the roadmap for Evolution, there will be proportional voting for Dash that you have in your savings account.
 

younglegend

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Jan 1, 2017
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50 dash voting in a pool of 7.2 million might make you feel good but will have no impact same as you voting your Twitter stock.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
no impact, but don't miss the point that I will like dash more if i can participate just like i felt good about twitter after voting.
 

solarguy

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There are certainly scenarios where many small voters can influence outcomes. Ascertaining if this is a good influence or a neutral influence or a bad influence, that gets into the dark and arcane arts.
 

Dima

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Mar 9, 2017
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To topic starter - if you don't like to vote with your masternode(s) - just sell them
 

younglegend

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Vote is power, just like freedom of speech or freedom of privacy.

freedom of privacy is the reason I bought dash by the way.

Even though I don't have masternodes, I wants to exercise vote rights to make something I like better

even if its small fraction of power.


I don't have much share because when I was buying price spiked(its big no no for investor like me to buy

at high price even if how much I like the investment)

If it wasn't for this 1000% jump, I am sure I will be holding master nodes right now.

I was buying $9 through $50 and then stopped knowing that theres no way I can afford masternode.