Welcome to the Dash Forum!

Please sign up to discuss the most innovative cryptocurrency!

Want to Buy a Good Idea? Neither Do I.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Syntax360, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. Syntax360

    Syntax360 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    13
    My thread title is demonstrably false - buying into a good idea is precisely what I have done. But most people do not trade in ideas. Most people will probably recognize a good idea, and some among them will go so far as to casually endorse a good idea - but real products and services are the only thing that will stir average people to invest financially or emotionally in a thing.

    Dash will never see widespread adoption until we can convert the average consumer from the state of total ignorance/apathy, through casual endorsement, and deliver them finally into emotional/financial investment.

    Dash does not currently provide a product/service that most people want or need.
    Or at the very least, we have failed to make a compelling case to the contrary.

    Brother camosoul named this thing precisely just a few weeks ago in his "Retail adoption for DASH" thread. I highly recommend you read it, or at least his first few paragraphs which specifically identify the nature of the real problem plaguing Dash.

    Dash is a clever and important idea, so this might be an uncomfortable truth for most of us - we are here precisely because we are the sort that trades in ideas. In this respect, we are the exception and not the rule. If the rest of the world valued the things we value, it is unlikely we would be here having this conversation at all. Projects like Dash are the natural consequence of the seemingly endless train of abuses made possible when a world becomes overrun with people who cannot or will not invest in the big picture - the stuff ideas are made of.

    Ideas do not matter to most people, most of the time. The world only cares about what it can get from you.

    Most of our marketing has largely celebrated all the ways we are better than Bitcoin. But the average consumer is not holding back their interest/investment in Bitcoin because it "isn't good enough". They are holding back because Bitcoin fails to offer them any real advantage over established payment mechanisms. Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency in general) fails to offer any compelling reason why one should go out of their way to use it.

    Many people will mistakenly cite that last part as the rub – the part about people having to go out of their way to use cryptocurrency. They say that if only we could: 1) get merchants on board, and 2) streamline the fiat->cryptocurrency process, then the average consumer would choose to use cryptocurrency instead of Paypal/Visa. Those two things certainly would not hurt our efforts to go mainstream, but neither really addresses the real existential dilemma we are dealing with.

    Existing payment mechanisms may indeed be profoundly flawed - camosoul does an admirable job detailing one such example in the thread I referenced - but the average consumer will maintain willful blindness to what goes on behind the curtain so long as the existing channels never compel them to take a peek. Merchants will cling to existing payment mechanisms until they no longer can afford to do otherwise. Vendors will adopt cryptocurrency the day they notice sales diverting to some competing merchant because the latter accepts cryptocurrency and they do not. Vendor adoption may expedite consumer demand, but consumer demand will necessitate vendor adoption. There is a reason the vast majority of us can occasionally use Apple Pay or Google Wallet, but most of us never have.

    Until we are able to directly name some problem the average consumer recognizes and explain how Dash will make their life better, we (and all cryptos) will continue to grasp at dollars and cents in the cash-starved realm of Ideamen.

    A campaign to crown Dash the King of the Cryptocurrency is simply not good enough. Total domination of our market share would amount to little more than one incremental step towards superseding any existing major payment mechanism.

    The only path to realizing our shared dream is to change the framework of our own perspective. We must target ordinary problems that consumers would immediately recognize and concisely outline how Dash solves them. Marketing needs to focus less on the technical merits of brilliant and revolutionary ideas; we should spotlight those ways Dash can directly improve the consumer’s life in some meaningful way.


    So it falls on us - the Ideamen and pioneers - to first answer these questions:

    What problem in your own life has Dash offered a solution to?

    What problems in your own life could Dash solve if this thing ever takes off?

    Would anyone else outside your bubble really care?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    952
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I totally agree. However, we now have the start of a democracy that bitcoin can only dream of. Setup a masternode and get voting. Case in point.. The current budget has a large chunk (relatively speaking) for PR / marketing. While it's a popular vote, it is seeing a little backlash because people like myself want the kind of development you talk about.

    The new upcoming Dash Evolution will also have a developer friendly API. Combine that with our voting / budgeting system and I think we're going to see some interesting projects.
     
  3. Syntax360

    Syntax360 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    13
    I agree completely. But take a moment to empty your mind completely and re-read your post. Then ask yourself that last question I posed - would any of that appeal to or resonate with John Q. Public?

    The average person most likely does not participate in their own real-life democratic process, perhaps with the rare exception of that perfunctory Head of State vote - and that costs him nothing at all. I sincerely believe the "governance by blockchain" model is genius - but the price of a masternode is a steep barrier of entry into the process. I fear the noble intention of development-by-democracy may, in actual fact, more resemble a plutocracy. (Many people have already questioned the optics of one of our very first initiatives - some of the" richest plutocrats" voted to bestow upon themselves even more "riches".)

    PR and marketing is HUGE - but only if we sell this right. Our message must appeal to a world that does not value the things we value. We need to be able to make a compelling and concise case in the plainest terms of how Dash is going to provide a necessary product or service that some existing payment mechanism doesn't already satisfy.

    I am eagerly awaiting more details on Evolution - I have every faith in this development team. I trust I do not even need to address how disinterested the average consumer would be the moment you start throwing around acronyms like "API".

    Please do not mistake any of this an "attack" on your post or anything personal like that. This is precisely the conversation I believe we all need to be having and right now just might be the very best time to do it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. rightaboutnow

    rightaboutnow New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    3
    if you look at square as a payment processor API for merchants to access to credit card network, DASH can build a similar platform for lower TCO. I don't know what evolution will bring but it could save merchants 20% or more eliminating transaction costs and charge backs, eliminate customer data loss etc. They could then charge a lower price for people paying in crypto currency. The API could convert the DASH to local fiat by sending it to an exchange for immediate sell. The merchant doesn't sit on crypto if they are worried about price fluctuation. the opportunities are endless
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Does a fish ask why it breathes water and not air? No. It's a fish. It doesn't have that complex of a brain.

    People who live hand to mouth and like being slaves don't question it. You should see the deer-in-the-headlights look I get from strippers when I sugest that it's stupid to work to spend money on bills. Why not work to fund an investment, and live off the investment? That way if you can't make money for a while, you still get by just fine. Eventually your investment grows to the point that you don't have to work just to piss it away...

    This is a problem that has plagued humanity since the beginning of time. There is no way to fix stupid.

    I've never met a rich man with a job or a schedule to keep.

    All you can do is be available to those who see the light. DASH's features make it most available. Shining the light must be done so that those inclined to see it actually have a light to see. But you can't expect them all to realize it. Spending tons of money trying to fix stupid is a waste of money. Just be visible.

    I may be wrong, but I think the best way to do this is have the logo and website name be seen at the checkout of the stores they already go to... Think of it like this. If you want a cat to try new food, food that you KNOW it will like... Do you make the cat go through a complicated maze of puzzles beyond it's ability to solve? Have you ever seen a cat call up it's buddies to come over and watch football on its big screen TV? No. You put the new food in its bowl because that's where it already goes for food. It already knows where to find it. It's already thinking about food when it gets there. The cat probably knows where you keep the food. It starts purring and rubbing against you anytime you walk towards that place it's stored, and that behavior escalates as you open the cupboard, remove the container, open the container, pour it out... But has it ever done any of those things itself even though it knows the whole process?

    Read about how you can train Crows to fly around town gathering change that people drop, and bringing it to your coin op bird feeder. No shit.

    Most people are actually DUMBER than Crows.

    A yard sign in front of the gas station... Everybody that is just barely smart enough to drive a car goes there. Most are still not smart enough to respond any different from a stripper... But some are... Preach to the strippers until they get smart? Are you going to shout the rules of football at a cat and expect it to suddenly understand one day and become really interested in watching the game with you?

    "Separation of Money and State"
    "No more banks(ters)"
    "Cryptocurrency for grown ups"

    Curiosity killed the cat.

    Yes, the above phrases are niche, most people are already programmed to roll their eyes and go back to being a slave. You're not going to change that. Practice the art of the possible.

    Appeal to the people who would find it appealing. Just as it's silly to plead with cryptotards... Do you target your Health Food Sales to Heroin Addicts? Do you advertise your cool gun business to democrats and hippies? Have you ever seen a TV ad that appealed to the cat but not it's owner? How many cats have wallets?

    One of the things I notice is the resistance to every step... "Oh, I have to jump through hoops to do currency exchange? I have no idea how to do that. I barely know how to computer. Oh, I have to not fuck up and lose everything? Well shit, not fucking up is way too much to ask of me. I already lost a photo album of my dear departed grandma, but I still can't be asked to learn how to make a backup or not stuff the computer full of spyware. Grandma's pictures were priceless, that's even more valuable than money, and I still won't learn!" There are 3 stages here. Not knowing. Not seeing it coming. Being so fucking lazy and stupid that even if they know and they see it coming, they still won't do it. You cannot affect the last group. Don't even try, they sure as hell don't. But the first two you can help.

    Not knowing anything at all is actually the easiest one to deal with. Simply present information.

    The second part is where the fumble usually occurs. That information should include a preparation for running into the barrier. Be honest. Tell them that there are barriers to entry put there by guv to try to stop them. It's true, first of all. But at the same time it softens the act of running into a wall when they know it's coming. Being told that evil fuckers are trying to keep you from it inspires rebellion. It's a motivator. You soften the blow of the barrier to entry, and at the same time inspire them to fight a little. "I ain't gonna let the man keep me down! I'm gonna try a little harder than I normally might! Tell me what this stupid barrier is. I bet I can beat the man's barriers!"

    If they want to know all the reasons for why they should want to escape government money, that's nice. Most people will want a thing simply because some monolithic authority wants to keep it from that thing. We instinctively know that any large organized power that wants to keep us from something, it's because that something is good for us and we want it. Don't get caught up explaining why Fiat and Guv suck. You'll rarely find someone who doesn't already know that to some degree. Maybe not as well as we know it. And that's where most crypto advocates get caught up. Trying to make people understand what we understand. It goes off the rails. Don't try to create the urge, just work with what's already there. You want them to be as outraged as you are. But they have no frame of reference. Give them the frame of reference first, and they'll be mad all on their own...

    Truth is not always politically correct. This shit works on dogs, cats, crows, pigs, and it works amazingly well on women. Go ahead, be mad. I can prove it. I've said no to more ass that I set up and walked away from than you can even count. People are a bunch of dumb animals and nothing is sacred. They're easy to lead as long as you don't push.
     
    #5 camosoul, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2015
    • Like Like x 6
  6. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    952
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Syntax360 Whilst you say the price of a masternode is expensive, I have to say, considering how niche dash is, and when you compare it to the number of full nodes bitcoin has, I'd say that it's proven to be a roaring success. I don't believe it's purely driven by greed, we're also enthusiasts and enjoying the journey.

    Sure, your average Joe doesn't know what an API is, but it's hugely significant to reach the goals you talk about. And with the voting / budgeting system, we can pay for programmes that encourage third party development... or set-up incubators.. the sky's the limit really.

    If you check out the thread, "Can you think of a project to fund ?", you'll see we've had some great ideas that will lead us to the products and services you desire.
     
  7. stan.distortion

    stan.distortion Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    133
    These threads make me cautious, there's a brain-drain happening in Bitcoin and this is one of the places its draining into. Just supposin' I wanted new ideas for a competing crypto or marketing an existing one...

    Anyway, Dash isn't just money so there are more angles to approach it from than just the monetary aspect, clients serving as income generating wifi hotspots, bar code lookups, store finders, other useful reasons for installing a client than simply monetary uses.

    EDIT: NFC is a turning point for regular payment networks and it's an opening for crypto to gain a sizeable chunk of what is otherwise a fairly walled in infrastructure.
     
    #7 stan.distortion, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2015
  8. Minotaur

    Minotaur Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    452
    Likes Received:
    1,079
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I think we are all pretty much on agreement about the need to add real value to day to day people if we are going to have a chance to some day reach mass adoption. That is definitely the direction the whole community wants to go in so this type of conversation is important to start discussing ideas. The reality is we are just not there yet, some people would say "cryptocurrency is a solution in search of a problem".

    Now Evan is definitely coding right now to produce a platform that is a lot more user friendly and continue to take steps in that direction. For example, users being able to send money to each other without the use of crypto public keys or the fact that we will have a decentralized API should help to create a lot of applications. For example, I was thinking that since you can just query the blockchain without holding a full node, while being as secure, that should allow for Internet of Things applications and many other things.

    Having said that, at this exact point in time we are still looking more for crypto users/investors than outside consumers as our added value solutions for general consumers are simply not ready yet. So we are still looking for more adoption within the space, meaning crypto start ups and investors. If you compare the stage of the project with a typical tech start up I would say after less than 2 years of launching is a bit early to expect consumer ready solutions. Now the truth is we still need to educate the general cryptocurrency community that does not participate on forums or follows alternative cryptocurrency projects. We still have a lot of market share to gain just within crypto while at the same time being clear that our goal is to work towards creating value to everyday people. In fact this is the message we are presenting to the crypto industry with Evolution that we are finally in the process of developing technology that could help close the gap between crypto and everyday people and they should support Dash but we need to let the industry know what is this project about and how far along are we.

    So I think we are all on agreement it is just going to take time as we still have some earlier stages to clear.
     
    #8 Minotaur, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2015
  9. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Exactly. How many full nodes would there be in BTC if they had to pay 1000BTC for each of them? Yet, DASH has them.
     
  10. rightaboutnow

    rightaboutnow New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    3
    How many full nodes are there on btc,net?
     
  11. splawik21

    splawik21 Grizzled Member
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    1,278
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    https://bitnodes.21.co/

    5357 at the moment.
     
  12. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    I think the most likely candidate to help with adoption by "normal" people is Open Bazaar. I think if we got a smooth working, Masternode Hosted, Easy to use client version of Open Bazaar going that accepts Dash, and maybe other currencies if desired, we would have a hit. Open Bazaar is just too clunky, and it's clunky because their system relies on users to run the server nodes as well as their client. Even if you made this easy to install, most people don't want to keep their computers running 24/7. AND, it's got to be EASY to use.

    I think a TON of ebayers are so fed up with Ebay that they'd give us a try if it's clean and easy enough. It would be worth it for them to move to a new currency to do this as it would save them 15% (not joking) on ebay fees (which are based on product AND shipping!) and paypal fees. ebayers are desperate. They hate Ebay, but it's the only game in town. I remember when it cost only about 3% to sell there!

    So, here is a thread for discussing a proposal to convert Open Bazaar to Dash, https://dashtalk.org/threads/pre-proposal-discussion-openbazaar-dash-integration.6379/
    At this point, after core development or even before Evolution, this is something we have GOT to do, IMHO. I've gotten it compiled on my computer, and have been playing with it. But I can do no more than testing to help out, because I don't code. Check out the thread, and think, can you help? If so, lets make a team!?!?

    And please, can anyone clean up this forum? It got spam attacked today! Ugh!
     
  13. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    952
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I think MNs should stay clear of specific products and services e.g. Open Bazaar. I think the MNs should provide services and an open API that is platform agnostic and compatible, thus allowing other crypto systems to equally support those products and services. Products and services specifically tied to dash would make us the sole target of hackers and governments.
     
  14. Syntax360

    Syntax360 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    13
    I am afraid some of you guys are still completely missing my point. Every reference to Bitcoin or how we are better is totally off-message. The average consumer does not care about Bitcoin. Minotaur provided one of the best "tl;dr" summations I could have hoped for:

    Most folks in this community (and most posts in this thread) want to promote a message that details how Dash improves crypto-currency - but that argument will not matter one whit until you first convince people that crypto-currency is an improvement over existing payment channels.

    I will provide my own answer to how I think we do that in my next post, but before I get to that, I believe it may be necessary to explain why this matters right now. Brevity is not a thing I excel at, so feel free to skip over the rest of this post and on to my next if you just want to get to my point...


    Few people work for charity. Dash must be worth something if it is to continue to garner the attention and time-investment of talented developers. We all chant the mantra about focusing on the technical fundamentals and ignoring the price. While there is truth in that, the two things do not have to be mutually exclusive - we can (and must) do both.

    As near as I can tell, our market has three basic sources of investment potential:
    1. Tech savvy people who recognize the fundamental merits of what crypto-currency offers. These are the people who do want to buy a good idea.
    2. The pump-and-dump players who are treating crypto-currency markets as their own private online casino.
    3. Everyone else standing on the sidelines, currently ignorant or apathetic to crypto-currency. These are the people I identified as currently holding back their investment because from their perspective, crypto-currency fails to offer any real advantage over established payment mechanisms.

    All of us comprise Group (1) and we are the very bedrock of the crypto-currency market, but on any given day, Group (2) provides the lion's share of market volume. One of the most important insights in camosoul's thread is that the current market favors scamcoins - this is a considerable problem for projects like Dash. Any useful coin that eschews the usual pump-and-dump roller-coaster rides in favor of substantive innovation fails to attract Group (2) money. Bag-holding scam-cycles are the life-blood of most exchanges, and if you are too busy developing a genuinely useful product to play these scam games, you risk being de-listed due to low trade volume.

    This has had a disastrous effect on Dash in recent months. The price has continued to slide downward and even some of the oldest and most loyal among us are beginning to become consumed by Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Make no mistake - this trend absolutely jeopardizes the future of the project ("few people work for charity").

    We cannot target our marketing strategies at Group (1) people and hope to counterbalance the ruinous effect of Group (2) schemes. One need only look at Bitcoin to see how vulnerable our own 800-pound-gorilla is to volatility introduced by Group (2). The only path forward is to draw money into our ecosystem from Group (3).

    This market is no meritocracy. Earnest effort to develop the very best technical product will provide no guarantee that our project will not wither and die on the vine before it is completed. Every time Dash is converted to BTC or fiat to fund a marketing initiative, we directly contribute to further devaluing Dash and thereby push ourselves deeper down the price-spiral. Considering then how precious our marketing resources are, we need to be absolutely sure we are targeting the right audience with the right message.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Syntax360

    Syntax360 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    13
    We must pull ourselves out of the rabbit hole of technical marvel at stop packaging our marketing in terms that would most appeal to us. As I explained in the second half of my previous post, people like us will not be our salvation. Our collective coffers are not sizable enough to pull off the moonshot we are attempting.

    The world does not value what we value. John Q. Public lacks the context and technical aptitude to appreciate any of those things we get so excited about:

    Thus far, we have been attempting to make everyone else understand what we understand, but everyone else lacks our frame of reference. When marketing Dash, the very first thing we need to do is provide some frame of reference average people will recognize. Our current campaign only begins to do this in one way:

    "Dash is digital cash."

    Every other part of our marketing message quickly races down that rabbit hole of technical marvel that normal people will not care about. But how do you sell "digital cash" to an audience that largley considers cash itself to be an antiquated payment mechanism?

    We need to remind people what cash does that Paypal, Visa, and yes, even Bitcoin, cannot do.

    Most people only enounter a few specialized occasions where cash is preferred, but when presented with those examples, almost everyone will at least recognize the importance of a cash option. This is the very first step to building an emotional investment between the public and "digital cash".

    I see three basic angles we can use to package this First Principle - I'm sure there are many more:

    1. When presented with an alternative, few people would choose to use their credit card (or any existing payment mechanism that establishes some record) when purchasing those products Amazon so delicately refers to as falling under the umbrella of "Health and Personal Care". That could be medical supplies and equipment, "romantic aids" and "sexual enhancers", pornography, etc. - anything that might be personally embarassing.​

    2. I would remind people about the surveillance state - turn people like Snowden into our own best salesman. Remind people that existing payment mechanisms foster and promote this environment where all our transactions are being datamined by corporate and governmental interests alike. Explain in plain terms why this is undesirable and the obvious abuses this total information awareness makes possible. We could capitalize on the moment and make the use of a thing like Dash one more small measure normal people can employ to marginalize the potential harm of the Surveillance State. This campaign would be much like all the modestly-successful promotions we have seen lately to mainstream products that incorporate some degree of "casual encryption" in their design. Pop culture has already made this "cool" - all we have to do is hook our railcar to the engine that has already built some considerable momentum.​

    3. We should co-opt the narrative that scaremonger news networks have already heavily invested in pushing onto their viewers - Dash should be promoted as a vaccine against the plague of data breeches everyone is already so worried about. People should be reminded how unsafe all their personal information is sitting online in so many corporate databases, just waiting for scary hackers to come along and plunder. They should be told how preposterous it is that the website you buy your razorblades from practices absolute data retention; if that site gets hacked tomorrow, that $15 purchase you made 8 months ago could put your credit history and entire identity in jeopardy. Merchants have every financial incentive to retain all your private info, and virtually no liability guarding it. We can all wait around for the governments of the world to do something about that, or consumers can instead take the first step in protecting themselves. Dash - Digital Cash - returns power back to the consumers. By choosing to use Dash, we can all immediately begin restoring safety to the Wild West of modern digital commerce.​


    None of these strategies require terms like "blockchain", "masternodes", or "API". We no longer need to engage in the mental gymnastics required to enforce some mass-delusion that the average consumer knows, or can be made to know, what "fungible" means. We scarcely need to provide any education at all - current events and pop culture have taught the average consumer everything they need to know to begin their emotional [and eventual financial] investment in our product.

    This is the essence of what I was referring to when I said we need to reframe our own perspective concerning marketing Dash. Dash is a very clever idea and thoroughly worthy of technical praise, but bundling that praise into a marketing campaign amounts to little more than trying to sell ideas to a world that has little interest in buying ideas.

    Sell the world a product or service they desire - not an idea that only people with your technical aptitude can appreciate.
     
    #15 Syntax360, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  16. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    What appeals to us are the differences, which can only be explained in technical terms.

    These are the same differences that would appeal to others, if they bothered to learn.

    The gap between Fiat and BTC is smaller than the gap between BTC and DASH.

    Read that again.

    If someone can't even be bothered to learn how fucked up the Federal Reserve and debt-based money in general are, if they can't even be asked to understand that, then their ignorance becomes the barrier.

    Just like people who got GOXed... They just assumed BTC was a centralized company with FDIC written on it. BTC IS SCAM the fools cried as Karpeles spent their money on hookers...

    People who are completely content to be screwed in blissful ignorance simply aren't going to see a need for change. Until they feel the pain personally. Even knowing the facts doesn't matter. They have to get burned or they keep on going...

    If you're starving and cold, you're much more motivated to build a hut and go hunting.

    If it could be exposed how the guv can trace everything you spend with BTC, that'd open a few eyes. But even then, some people are fine with a complete lack of privacy. They don't care. Cat's don't care when your favorite football team scores a touchdown. They don't even know what touchdown means. And they're fine with eating out of a bowl and licking their buttholes.

    Quit trying to teach cats math... They don't care and you can't force them to know the things that might cause them to care. They're lazy and ignorance keeps them happy. They like being dumb as shit and will guard their stupid viciously.

    You're right that we're going at this all wrong. But there really is no right way to handle it. I think this whole discussion is stupid because you really can't control or influence the matter. "Be the change you want to see in the world" Yeah, but what if the world likes being a cesspool and doesn't know any better? Just be the change you want to see in the world, and shut up! You can't force people to do what's good for them. People drink themselves to death every day. They overdose on substances that supposedly don't exist because laws! You're going to change that?

    The answer is to shut the fuck up and just be awesome. If some of the dumb beasts want to rise up, offer them a hand.

    But, you can't force feed rocket science to a cat. It just won't work.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    8,945
    Likes Received:
    6,731
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    ;););)
    word

    "sheep will be sheep and it will take a revolution to knock them out of their sleep"

    I am not saying we are not trying (to wake them up) but it is obvious a bit of an uphill struggle and there is a LOT of work to do
    ;)
     
  18. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Ever try to awaken a pet rock?

    Shout at it, kick it in the face, shoot it with a gun.

    Rocks don't wake up. They're rocks.

    If you invest a lot of time and effort into that... You're only showing the world that you're a dumbass.

    Most people are pet rocks owned by politicians. The sky is blue. The grass is green. That's just how it is.
     
  19. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    8,945
    Likes Received:
    6,731
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    "invested a lot of time into "

    a : being a rock ?
    b : trying to wake them up ?

    a : Dumbass , definitely
    b : somebody has to try, it is too easy to give up and blame it on those dam rocks
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. stan.distortion

    stan.distortion Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Timing's important too, its easy to get impatient and want Dash pumped to the mainstream with posters in every train station and adds on TV but this is the early adopter phase and its the time for targeting specific demographics. Look at the progress so far, the release was chaotic same as practically all alts so that's hard to target but the next phase was genius, "Darkcoin" coupled with masternodes put the right kind of people right in at the foundation level. By then it was clear there was genuine innovation aimed directly at moving forward from Bitcoin and "Dash" gave the coin a professional image but we're still in that phase, getting serious and intelligent people in at the foundation level.

    Its easy to think nothing is happening when watching from hour to hour but zoom out and Dash is moving forward at a blinding pace, development has continually over-delivered and if Evolution's the same then Dash is undeniably the next phase of crypto and ready for promoting to the mainstream but even then it needs to be to a specific demographic, trying to get all and sundry using it now will be harmful in the long term and an utter waste with the solid foundations its built so far. Those foundations are the target, it needs smart people with the right intention and the balls to stand firm against the opposition it will undoubtedly face because that opposition has absolutely no scruples and a foundation built on soccer moms and day traders will run away screaming before its even begun its serious attacks.
     
  21. David

    David Well-known Member
    Dash Support Group

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    628
    Trophy Points:
    163
    For what it's worth, Dash has existed for roughly 22 months. I pulled historical price data for Bitcoin from Coindesk, and 22 months after Bitcoin's January 2009 release (that would be November 2010), the price of bitcoin was between $0.20 and $0.28. That's right--twenty to twenty-eight cents each.

    In my opinion, many of us are expecting too much in terms of price and adoption. I'm sure Satoshi, Finney, and the few others involved in Bitcoin also felt like they were voices crying in the wilderness when their project was only 22 months old.

    These things take time. It takes time for people to hear about you, it takes time for people to take you seriously, it takes time to build an ecosystem of exchanges, both DASH/BTC and DASH/Fiat, it takes time to get merchants to acknowledge your existence and eventually accept your currency as a form of payment.

    Bitcoin is almost seven years old, and is still at least several years from any sort of mass adoption. Dash is less than two. Buy, sell, or hold, but give the team a chance to build and give the world a chance to hear about you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    1,854
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    I'm virtually positive that this is the direction the core team is heading in. When we made the Dash video (What is Dash?) we discussed all of this, and hence, you can see the "What is Dash" video is definitely targeting the uninitiated. It will be the backbone of everything in the future.

    In the mean time, I agree, our price being so stagnant is not good for moral, not good for spending (on marketing, etc) and looks iffy from the "outside". I feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place until Evolution is fully revealed. I have no talent in marketing, unfortunately, and we need some good ideas. On the other hand, I think the meetups in Mexico and Florida should be a big help in getting more of group 1 in here. Maybe there are more meetups that can be attended in the mean time. Spreading the word is the best we can do right now.

    Or is it? There I go again, speaking in absolutes (all I can think of doing right now is more accurate)
     
  23. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    I believe you're seeing half of the picture.

    Bitcoin's adoption has stagnated because it has stagnated in development. No one wants to fix what's wrong with it. Most people barely understand it, much less realize it needs fixing. But retail doesn't like it for a reason. The clusterfuck band-aid of Bitcoin ATMs is proof of why BTC's adoption isn't, ever, going to go any further than it already has. We'd be scanning Bitcoin QR codes to buy stuff at Wal Mart if it were instant and locked like dollars in the cash drawer. But it's not. Since they refuse to move forward and fix that defect, adoption stands as far as it can go. Someone is going to fill that void. It's only a matter of time...

    Most people using any form of BTC or it's clones, barely has any idea how it works. Most still think it's anon money for teh drugs. They want that to be true so bad that they're never going to listen.

    DASH's ability to cross the retail bridge is really all it has going for it as far as mass adoption goes. Stupid people view learning as a form of corporal punishment. We can't flog them into using DASH. We need carrot not stick. Bait. A reason they already want. Most people are just fine with guvpaper and banks. So, we're left with a segment of people who understand crypto, that it's broken, and that DASH is the fix. Which are people who are already here...

    Sprinkle tastier bait near and around the places where they already do the money. A sign at the Point of Sale. Get it there by making it cost the retailer nothing, and guaranteeing the payments. There were gas stations already interested, but nobody could Point of Sale Bitcoin, the same problem it has always had; Bitcoin is immune to retail. DASH is not. Capitalize on what DASH can do, not fighting the same old battle that doesn't need to be fought and can't be won anyway... We've watched Bitcoin fail to make the move and stagnate, now relying on advertising to pump the price. Use what Evan gave us. Do something different because we can! Do what Bitcoin and it's clones cannot because they have chain-synchronous payments, the rest will fall into place. DASH has chain-asynchronous payments. Use it!

    It's weird.It's like we believe init, but then keep trodding the same old path that doesn't work. Do you really believe that DAHS's advanced features make a difference? When why do we not even talk about doing anything with it? Why do we talk about the same old crap that doesn't work? It's like watching other people pay rent, rack up debt, etc, and then mimic that? Hello? It's stupid and doesn't work, why mimic it? Why are we even talking about "what other coins do" when it clearly doesn't work for them?

    This is about actions.

    Have a system already in place that they can use. Don't talk about how bright the future is going to be, if only adoption... Duh. Remove all barriers because we can. Regardles of which coin they're bagholding, it's as fast as shapeshift.io to experience something that actually works in real life! Adoption has appeared as a chicken or the egg paradox because that is how it has been not handled so far. It's not. Put the chicken and the egg out there at the same time. Who would use Debit Cards if there were no place to swipe them? Complain about the adoption paradox?

    I still say gas stations are the way to go. They already tried and failed with Bitcoin. Pick up that lead and run with it. Because DASH can what Bitcoin can't. You don't have to worry about downward sell pressure from the retailers cashing out, because someone had to buy in in the first place in order for that to even happen, right? It's a neutral at worst.
     
    #23 camosoul, Nov 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Silent Fireworks

    Silent Fireworks New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
  25. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,240
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    A spam bot necro-ed this thread, but It was a nice time capsule from which I can make a good point.

    Note the above quote.
    FTFY
    If you want adoption by normal people, then you need to be usable where normal people are already using their money daily.

    You cannot control the herd.

    DASH has followed the rest of Cryptosphere's lead and disappeared up it's own butt.

    Who cares what "the market" wants? What's the market? A bunch of ponzi/tupil traders playing with their digital Ouija Boards who have zero use for any of DASH's innovations. Why would you give a crap what people like that want, when the whole purpose of DASH is to do something entirely not at all that?

    You keep creating a bunch of new fancy crap. But you have no bridge to reality. You have no bridge to the way things are done now. You have no bridge to the people who will never be able to code for some gay platform thing.

    You want the people who are swiping a card to buy groceries and put gas in their cars. Yet you have not only done nothing to be useful to these people, you are deliberately ostracizing them. As if Crypto et al hasn't already done a great job of that... You've let yourselves get sucked into the cryptosphere. The whole purpose of DASH was to reach outside of the cryptosphere. Through this failure, DASH has abandoned it's own purpose.

    The best marketing/advertising you'll ever get is "DASH accepted here" at the POS terminal. After the shitshow that crypto has made of itself, it's the only thing that's going to work. Put up or shut up. You do pretty much anything else and you're just throwing money away.

    5 years ago I could get you to talk about it. Now, you just look at me like I'm an idiot because you're so brainwashed by the leftist echo chamber of the get-rich-quick tulip/ponzi cryptosphere, you don't have a clue what reality is or how to interface with it anymore...
     
    #25 camosoul, Feb 12, 2020 at 3:13 PM
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020 at 3:22 PM