Voting, PR, Marketing, Budgets: Outsider's View

D&D

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Jan 29, 2016
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Hi,

Couple questions - suggestions.

1. I own 30 MN's that are hosted. I am not actively involved in any of the activities related to DASH here or elsewhere other than checking up once in a while to see how things are going.
2. In the case of voting, if I input that voting string into the wallet, does it cast 30 votes from me?
3. As mentioned in my first post on this forum I think the marketing is quite woeful to date for such a promising coin. Having looked a the PR company in question, I suggest it is a good thing that this vote did not go through:

"including Bitcoin Shop, Gyft, Kraken, KnCMIner, KryptoKit, MaidSafe, and Mastercoin"

- Bitcoin Shop is garbage. Public records show it has $0 sales today (check SEC filings)
- Gyft while already well known hasn't moved forward from its initial stepping out
- Kraken early and 3 tier user. Nothing remarkable in way of marketing anywhere ever that I have seen. Status quo.
- KNC Miner is in a world of hurt. From the debacle and denial of their well-ducmented shenanigans to the pending lawsuit(of which I am a party and know exactly what is going on)
- remaining three never heard of them other than mastercoin here and their on bitcointalk org

I would suggest that while it appears this is a professional PR firm that has carved out a niche in this crypto space, his portolio presents duds or better said less than successful PR campaigns. Stirkes me he took whoever / whatever to develop his PR company regardless of the quality which is well understood as I am sure there is not that much out there to begin with. But consider it a bullet dodged IMO.

I may not be deep in the thick of things but my cursory understanding and view I would like think represents the so - called casuals if you will out there. Started out building milk crate mining machines like everyone else. Learned the ropes along the way, took some of my personal finance there after and bought and built 120 TH BTC mini farm and ran from there. Made a nice profit and sold the farm and invested quite a bit in DRK when it was still young amongst others that look as promising even as I tap this out (50,000 ETH ICO). Point I am trying to make is I have a general over view of the game.

What I can tell you is what is incredibly lacking here is the promotion and sales of the Master Nodes. It was only a year ago I learned about them and realised what passive income that they can generate. From the outside this appears to be some very big secret. While I am sure to all of you it is there and as mundane and as avaible as inputting an address and clicking send to consumate a transaction.

This is what is missing with DASH. Not quibbling for days on end on the new novelty of creating budgets and making votes, not retaining the only PR company in this space regardless of the duds he's not improved or made a house hold name.

It is the financial aspect and stability and return generated by investing in a Master Node and sitting back collecting your income each and every month.

I wish I had known about it earlier. I wish it was broadcast from the roof tops in the simplest of terms. I would have tripled even quadrupled my investment much earlier and been sitting much better today.
A concernted professional campaign promoting and showing that investing in a Master Node yields nearly guaranteed monthly income each year.

This is what needs to be advertized. People out there simply do not know this. If I was a finacial writer or so inclined I would creat a website and do this myself. But in the same vein, it cannot should not come across as some far fetched snake oil sales akin to glossy cloud mining websites offering fantastic returns.

What is needed is a professional credible financial person to present and market this aspect to the world out there. Not the coke machines, not the instant transactions, not the mixed private transactions. The coin and its stability as a proper real world investment which earns a return.

That in my view is the only way it will work. Technical gibber should remain on these forums and for chit-chatting on private invite only retreats where nuances of nonces and other nonsense will be appriated.

You need to find someone in the financial sector who can present and market and sell this as an investment vehicle to the outside world.
 

ericsammons

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Jan 1, 2016
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Interesting perspective, but I'm not sure promoting the investment of MNs is really the way to go. For a few reasons:

(1) There is a limit to the number of possible MNs, and we aren't that far from it now. There are currently ~ 3,500 MNs, and there can only be a theoretical max of 6,100 right now (in practice much less). That means there are only 2,600 possible more MNs, probably more like 1,000 in reality - not exactly a large market.
(2) The fact remains that for every new MN, that means less profit for existing MN owners. So most Dash investors aren't exactly incentivized to aggressively promote new MNs.
(3) For the long term success of Dash, it is more important to push merchant and user adoption, not MN ownership. As long as the number of MNs remains where it is, there shouldn't be a problem maintaining a larger network (since MNs can be forced to upgrade to better hardware in the future). But a larger pool of users and merchants rises all ships.

I'm not making any comments (positive or negative) on the value of the Terpin PR relationship, but I don't think promoting a niche investment vehicle is really the best move going forward.
 

InTheWoods

Well-known Member
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Oct 12, 2014
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3. As mentioned in my first post on this forum I think the marketing is quite woeful to date for such a promising coin. Having looked a the PR company in question, I suggest it is a good thing that this vote did not go through:

"including Bitcoin Shop, Gyft, Kraken, KnCMIner, KryptoKit, MaidSafe, and Mastercoin"

- Bitcoin Shop is garbage. Public records show it has $0 sales today (check SEC filings)
- Gyft while already well known hasn't moved forward from its initial stepping out
- Kraken early and 3 tier user. Nothing remarkable in way of marketing anywhere ever that I have seen. Status quo.
- KNC Miner is in a world of hurt. From the debacle and denial of their well-ducmented shenanigans to the pending lawsuit(of which I am a party and know exactly what is going on)
- remaining three never heard of them other than mastercoin here and their on bitcointalk org

I would suggest that while it appears this is a professional PR firm that has carved out a niche in this crypto space, his portolio presents duds or better said less than successful PR campaigns. Stirkes me he took whoever / whatever to develop his PR company regardless of the quality which is well understood as I am sure there is not that much out there to begin with. But consider it a bullet dodged IMO.

Well put. I fully agree.
 
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David

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(2) The fact remains that for every new MN, that means less profit for existing MN owners. So most Dash investors aren't exactly incentivized to aggressively promote new MNs.
Theoretically, more people buying MNs would raise the price of Dash to the point where the decrease in Dash/month would be more than compensated for by the increase in price/Dash.
 
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splawik21

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Theoretically, more people buying MNs would raise the price of Dash to the point where the decrease in Dash/month would be more than compensated for by the increase in price/Dash.
David I was already writing this :rolleyes: while got the alert :p checked and it was you ....
ericsammons less coins on the market create the price rise till the moment some masternode operator will sell at certain level so this is self equlibrium system.
 
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nightowl

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I heard Evan say somewhere in a podcast (I think it was the one-on-one interview with Amanda from Daily Decrypt) that they made some calculations and the optimum size of the network should be around 3000 masternodes. We're already past that, which might explain why it isn't marketed that actively anymore.
 
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ericsammons

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Theoretically, more people buying MNs would raise the price of Dash to the point where the decrease in Dash/month would be more than compensated for by the increase in price/Dash.
True, but I think that would reach some type of practical limit. If all the coins are bound up in MNs (as would happen if we truly pushed to maximize MNs), there would be no market for Dash, because no one could use it in practice, which could eventually lead to a significant drop in price.

My point is that we currently are at a point where a large increase in the number of MNs would not (IMO) increase the price of Dash in the long-term, and could cause a decrease. If we were at 1,000 or so MNs, then the story would be different.

But I admit I haven't analyzed the optimal number of MNs in any rigorous fashion, so I might be off on that point.
 
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David

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True, but I think that would reach some type of practical limit. If all the coins are bound up in MNs (as would happen if we truly pushed to maximize MNs), there would be no market for Dash, because no one could use it in practice, which could eventually lead to a significant drop in price.

My point is that we currently are at a point where a large increase in the number of MNs would not (IMO) increase the price of Dash in the long-term, and could cause a decrease. If we were at 1,000 or so MNs, then the story would be different.

But I admit I haven't analyzed the optimal number of MNs in any rigorous fashion, so I might be off on that point.
But, like Bitcoin, each Dash is infinitely divisible. Supply is essentially irrelevant, because even if 99% of our coins were somehow tied up, the remaining 1% are divisible by eight (?) decimal places. Each masternode might end up costing only 1 Dash, while ordinary transactions might have an average value of 0.0002 Dash.

Psychology is very important, and some people might be confused by all the decimals. If at any point it became desirable to do so, the currency could theoretically be inflated, much like a 1000:1 stock split. Everybody would still own the same relative amount of Dash, but the decimals would just be shifted to the left.
 
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splawik21

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@up less MNs on teh network gives the holders of these MNs more frequent payments which as I said before gets in perfer equlibrium ;)
 

ericsammons

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Jan 1, 2016
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But, like Bitcoin, each Dash is infinitely divisible. Supply is essentially irrelevant, because even if 99% of our coins were somehow tied up, the remaining 1% are divisible by eight (?) decimal places. Each masternode might end up costing only 1 Dash, while ordinary transactions might have an average value of 0.0002 Dash.

Psychology is very important, and some people might be confused by all the decimals. If at any point it became desirable to do so, the currency could theoretically be inflated, much like a 1000:1 stock split. Everybody would still own the same relative amount of Dash, but the decimals would just be shifted to the left.
Good point.
 

oaxaca

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2. In the case of voting, if I input that voting string into the wallet, does it cast 30 votes from me?
I strongly advise you to learn how things work with DASH.

What I can tell you is what is incredibly lacking here is the promotion and sales of the Master Nodes. It was only a year ago I learned about them and realised what passive income that they can generate.
The reason Masternodes are compensated with block rewards is because they provide services to the network. Those responsiblities include:
Keeping the server up and running 24/7,
Researching the proposals that put forward, and
Voting on those proposals.

This is what is missing with DASH. Not quibbling for days on end on the new novelty of creating budgets and making votes,
The Decentralized Budget System is an amazing feature that you SHOULD become more familiar with. It is not a novelty.

investing in a Master Node and sitting back collecting your income each and every month.
It's this kind of attitude that causes overall rates of voting to be much less than they should be.
 

D&D

New Member
Jan 29, 2016
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I would suggest that it is unhelpful smart-alec responses like this that causes the rates of voting to never increase.

As I clearly said my MN's are hosted. I have them hosted because I don't have the time or interest to fiddle with code any more. A simple straightforward question is posed: if I insert that vote code in my wallet will it cast a or many votes on behalf of me and my hosted MN's. Or simpler terms: is voting only operational form the hosting providers end.

Doesn't matter anymore. No one's bothered to answer anyway and as stated I am not that interested. So consider 1 or 30 votes that will remain never cast ever.
 
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splawik21

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I would suggest that it is unhelpful smart-alec responses like this that causes the rates of voting to never increase.

As I clearly said my MN's are hosted. I have them hosted because I don't have the time or interest to fiddle with code any more. A simple straightforward question is posed: if I insert that vote code in my wallet will it cast a or many votes on behalf of me and my hosted MN's. Or simpler terms: is voting only operational form the hosting providers end.

Doesn't matter anymore. No one's bothered to answer anyway and as stated I am not that interested. So consider 1 or 30 votes that will remain never cast ever.
You need masternode.conf file with all your nodes data.
You can start the empty wallet with this config and issue the vote-many so you get 30 votes all in one command.

If you want to use the half of nodes to vote all you need is simply to put this : # in the beggining of each line. This line will not vote in this case.

Hope it helps ;)
 
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Walter

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Jul 17, 2014
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I would suggest that it is unhelpful smart-alec responses like this that causes the rates of voting to never increase.

As I clearly said my MN's are hosted. I have them hosted because I don't have the time or interest to fiddle with code any more. A simple straightforward question is posed: if I insert that vote code in my wallet will it cast a or many votes on behalf of me and my hosted MN's. Or simpler terms: is voting only operational form the hosting providers end.

Doesn't matter anymore. No one's bothered to answer anyway and as stated I am not that interested. So consider 1 or 30 votes that will remain never cast ever.
Come on guys - I know tensions are a little high at the moment for some but please show a bit of respect here. D&D was quite clear about his position and the intentions of his post, he was also courteous in manner, please afford him the same in return.

D&D,

If your main wallet has been set up as a cold wallet and has all 30 x 1000DASH addresses in it then you should be able to unlock your wallet and type in the debug console for example:

mnbudget vote-many "INSERT PROPOSAL STRING i.e.4608fc0bc3683d3fc40f241fc2d07f8b522b4765415f5faf2a6e19da06ec8ed3" yes

The above example would send a vote yes command for the to all of your masternodes. Much like when you have to start your masternodes.

Alternatively take a look at dashwhale.org. Rango has done a real good job of making life easier for us masternode owners and once set up the voting function on his site is really easy to use.

Hope this helps.

Walter
 

splawik21

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@up

No need to unlock the wallet and bringing it online ;)

Trust me.

Use any daily even empty wallet BUT use the masternode.conf of you multiple nodes and issue the command. Check it and report ;)
 
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TanteStefana

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Theoretically, more people buying MNs would raise the price of Dash to the point where the decrease in Dash/month would be more than compensated for by the increase in price/Dash.
It only benefits those who got in earlier. for anyone buying fresh, it becomes a bad investment. Right now it's a bit over 11% in Dash ROI per year, a decent amount but not that great when you consider that this project could die in the future and never go anywhere - if there never is any USE for Dash, there is nothing.

So even if more MNs means a higher price, the higher cost to buy enough Dash to run one for far fewer returns (if there are so many Masternodes) will mitigate the possibility, so it won't happen.

Anyway, I've been researching Transform PR and their CEO, Michael Terpin don't seem too shabby, at least they did a good job on their own PR?!?!?! So yah, it would have been nice to keep them, and if we can clean up this mess, it would be nice if we could get them to take us again.
 

David

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Jun 21, 2014
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Thanks very much guys, your helpful replies are most appreciated. I will definitely look into it all further.
Splawik is absolutely correct...you can vote from any empty wallet if masternode.conf is setup, using vote-many to vote all your nodes at once. I'm not sure why oaxaca said otherwise, but he was incorrect.

I agree with the above...I realize tensions are high, but here's a guy who says he owns 30,000 Dash ($125,000+)...whether true or not, but especially if it is true...Is it necessary to be rude?
 
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oaxaca

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I wasn't being rude. I suggested that he do more and learn more. It would appear that is happening:

Thanks very much guys, your helpful replies are most appreciated. I will definitely look into it all further.
The DASH community is stronger with active masternode owners rather than passive ones. Is that wrong?
 
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David

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I wasn't being rude. I suggested that he do more and learn more. It would appear that is happening:



The DASH community is stronger with active masternode owners rather than passive ones. Is that wrong?
You are correct...ideally active masternode owners are better than passive. But I think he wants to be active, if he can just find a way to vote more easily. Now that he knows about vote-many using masternode.conf, he can be more active.

I also suggest that even inactive masternode owners benefit the system: higher masternode count in Evolution will mean more masternode quorums available for IX and the like; also more masternodes = more Dash purchased on open market = higher price for all our Dash. At worst, it's a Lose-Win-Win.