The "Evolutionary Women of Dash" PinUp Calendar

Do you like this idea?

  • Heck, yeah!

  • No, historically relevant women are scary.

  • Tell me more...


Results are only viewable after voting.

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Sexist? I don't' understand this idea relating to my proposal. Celebrating historically relevant women who helped us all evolve is "sexist"?

I think certain people have the uncanny ability to be offended for just about any reason they dream up.
My heart goes out to these people. Must be tough going through life constantly feeling offended.

I am simply offering my creativity, contacts, time, money and energy for a promotional project that I believe will be exciting and broad-reaching to our community and Dash.

As they say, you can't please all the people all the time.

Please do let me know if this is worth my time (and over $500 in fees to submit and official proposal) or not, though. I'm not interested in wasting my time, energy or finances.

Thanks so much, Everyone!
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
and Lady Godiva and Hedy Lamarr will be wearing boiler suits? The objectification of women is not empowering - it's demeaning and harmful - and, in my opinion, totally inappropriate for Dash to be associated with, let alone fund. How about a calendar showing the evolution of money instead? Salt, barter, gold coins?? No? More relevant but not enough eye candy?

I'm going to shut up now or I risk the Streisand effect, but please, at least add a proper "no" option to the poll. It is not sexist to vote against this proposal, but there are sound arguments that the proposal is sexist in itself.
Salt, barter, gold coins? Yeah, that sounds like a GREAT way to get media attention. The people who like salt alone will guarantee you a huge audience ;)

I encourage you to submit this idea and to run with it. You and the guy doing the cockroach calendar could team up and do a very PC, female cockroach empowering calendar together :)
 

Tallyho

Member
Mar 15, 2015
124
68
78
Hi @TheBigCat, please may we start again? Clearly this discussion isn't as effective as it should be and I take the blame for coming here wearing my feminist hat instead of my dash hat.

I do see that you believe that your idea can be a positive thing for Dash and that's what everybody here wants, so instead of shooting you down I should have been more constructive. I apologise for that. Of course you don't want to waste the money submitting a proposal that won't pass and that's the whole point of a pre-proposal thread like this one, so starting from that basis and our common interest in wanting Dash to succeed, perhaps we can look together at how to improve this proposal.

- First of all please consider changing the poll options to something more useful. I can't see how many votes the poll has received because I haven't voted, because none of the options apply to me, but I'm sure there are many others who haven't voted for the same reason. It would be far more useful to you to invite proper "no" votes and ask people to explain why they voted no so that you can address their concerns and tweak the proposal if necessary, before putting up the proposal fee.

- It would be helpful if you could provide a clear visual example of how you intend to present the calendar. Certainly I got hung up on the cheesecake photos you attached to your post so I'm almost certainly not the only one who understood that they were representative of the calendar. If you don't have photos to show us perhaps you could do a mock-up or sketch something to show exactly what you have in mind? MNOs need to know what they are voting for without having to imagine it.

- In the example please show how this will be relevant to Dash, obviously the more relevant the better. That is the reason we're all here after all.


Nobody is suggesting that it isn't admirable to showcase such heroic women, believe me I do not need a lesson in why Hedy Lamarr was amazing! But if you want this proposal to succeed you'll need to demonstrate how this is relevant to Dash or how this will help get more women interested in Dash specifically rather than just giving them a history lesson.


A few more ideas if I may. Somebody easrlier in this thread suggested that the pictures should be in chronological order as a representation of evolution. I would also suggest choosing women from progressive eras in line with that theme, from the furthest back in history to modern day. You already have an impressive list of women but fitting them into a template of evolution might help you narrow it down.

Perhaps consider using images of the actual women in question (photos, paintings, sketches), possibly each accompanied by a photo of a real Woman of Dash and a few words about why this heroic woman inspires her.

In my opinion the calendar would ideally convey a clear message that women are welcomed in Dash, that they will be treated and respected equally, that they can make an important contribution, that they can find personal and financial success here whilst taking control of their own finances and their own goals. And that they can have fun doing so. I think that if you can convey some sort of message like that, make it relevant to Dash and show MNOs exactly what the calendar will look like, you will get a far more positive response. Modifying the poll to enable the community to reflect their true thoughts will also help you gauge that response far more usefully.

I genuinely hope this helps.

Tally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chosen

jimbursch

Well-known Member
Mar 5, 2017
837
502
163
57
@TheBigCat -- you're bumping into an issue that's much bigger than your proposal, which is why you're getting resistance. Sexism is a huge issue in technology, gaming, and online culture (see #gamergate). And it's an issue because women are under-represented in the industry and culture of cryptocurrency.

Ultimately you decide how you represent yourself, and you decide how (or not) you represent women. It sucks having to carry that burden, but I trust your judgment. If the calendar you envision chooses to exploit the power of sex-appeal to the max, go for it. Own it, because you are in charge of this project and you get to decide.
 
  • Like
Reactions: akhavr

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
2,989
1,148
1,183
This resistance is what happens when you put one segment of society on a pedestal. Empowering one side potentially - excluding and silencing the other - it's problematic. To achieve one version of "equality", you have to accept the mascularisation of women AND the feminisation of men. Favouring one side will, invariably, cause problems.

For me, I will vote no. If you chose a Family and Friends theme, I will probably vote yes.
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Indeed! But what I meant to say is that I think there is Dash in the Treasury to compensate the models a little more for their services :))
Oh, yes that might be nice :) My goal with the costs here was keeping everything as close to bare bones as possible, to keep it feasible to the budget. I do think that the whole project is pitched quite reasonably fee-wise!
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Hi @TheBigCat, please may we start again? Clearly this discussion isn't as effective as it should be and I take the blame for coming here wearing my feminist hat instead of my dash hat.

I do see that you believe that your idea can be a positive thing for Dash and that's what everybody here wants, so instead of shooting you down I should have been more constructive. I apologise for that. Of course you don't want to waste the money submitting a proposal that won't pass and that's the whole point of a pre-proposal thread like this one, so starting from that basis and our common interest in wanting Dash to succeed, perhaps we can look together at how to improve this proposal.

- First of all please consider changing the poll options to something more useful. I can't see how many votes the poll has received because I haven't voted, because none of the options apply to me, but I'm sure there are many others who haven't voted for the same reason. It would be far more useful to you to invite proper "no" votes and ask people to explain why they voted no so that you can address their concerns and tweak the proposal if necessary, before putting up the proposal fee.

- It would be helpful if you could provide a clear visual example of how you intend to present the calendar. Certainly I got hung up on the cheesecake photos you attached to your post so I'm almost certainly not the only one who understood that they were representative of the calendar. If you don't have photos to show us perhaps you could do a mock-up or sketch something to show exactly what you have in mind? MNOs need to know what they are voting for without having to imagine it.

- In the example please show how this will be relevant to Dash, obviously the more relevant the better. That is the reason we're all here after all.


Nobody is suggesting that it isn't admirable to showcase such heroic women, believe me I do not need a lesson in why Hedy Lamarr was amazing! But if you want this proposal to succeed you'll need to demonstrate how this is relevant to Dash or how this will help get more women interested in Dash specifically rather than just giving them a history lesson.


A few more ideas if I may. Somebody easrlier in this thread suggested that the pictures should be in chronological order as a representation of evolution. I would also suggest choosing women from progressive eras in line with that theme, from the furthest back in history to modern day. You already have an impressive list of women but fitting them into a template of evolution might help you narrow it down.

Perhaps consider using images of the actual women in question (photos, paintings, sketches), possibly each accompanied by a photo of a real Woman of Dash and a few words about why this heroic woman inspires her.

In my opinion the calendar would ideally convey a clear message that women are welcomed in Dash, that they will be treated and respected equally, that they can make an important contribution, that they can find personal and financial success here whilst taking control of their own finances and their own goals. And that they can have fun doing so. I think that if you can convey some sort of message like that, make it relevant to Dash and show MNOs exactly what the calendar will look like, you will get a far more positive response. Modifying the poll to enable the community to reflect their true thoughts will also help you gauge that response far more usefully.

I genuinely hope this helps.

Tally.
Hi, Tally. I appreciate your interest in the "Evolutionary Women of Dash" calendar!

First, I believe a few of your concerns have now been addressed in the body of my pre-proposal, since I edited it earlier today. Please check that, OK?

The main concern you seem to be voicing was the relevance of a Calendar called "Evolutionary Women of Dash." Perhaps you did not see that this would be to herald the introduction of the groundbreaking app called "Evolution" by Dash, near the end of the year/beginning of 2018. I see Dash as a wonderful innovation for society as a whole. The Evolutionary women portrayed in the calendar are part of this lineage of innovators.

Let me assure you that with the experience I have, creating, designing and producing 2 pinup calendars and working with 24 women, I know what I am doing. Not an easy task, coordinating with so many personality types to create something of beauty, strength, and intelligence, through this collaboartaion. So let me explain some things...

The reason I have such an extensive list of women from history, is the historic women we will actually feature will be determined by the women who want to be part of this project. Certain figures from history will resonate more or less with certain women. We are all individuals, after all
I want each model to be inspired by the woman in history they are portraying. As you so astutely suggested, this will be part of what we include in the copy on each page. I purposely put up a long list to give women as many options as I could think of. I also - notice - left it open for them to make suggestions.

Your idea of having two photos on each page, one of the actual woman from history and one of the woman who is inspired by that woman in history, is interesting but unfortunately designwise not tenable. Again, trust me I have experience in this. There simply is not enough room in a graceful way for two photos on one page plus all of the copy. This idea of two pictures per page also would bring up legal and financial issues since using photos of these actual historic women would entail getting permission from their sources and in most cases paying a fee.

Please keep in mind that this is meant to be a news-worthy, publicity-garnering promotion of outreach and celebration. That's the idea.

I hope that helps!
 
  • Like
Reactions: akhavr

Tallyho

Member
Mar 15, 2015
124
68
78
The relevance of the calendar is one of my concerns, yes, and I admit I still find the link between Dash Evolution and the evolution of women in the way you describe very tenuous. The innovation link much less so, but still it's called Dash Evolution, not Dash Innovation.

My main concern however is to what extent women will be objectified and you still haven't really addressed this. Cryptocurrency, Dash, is an arena where sex is irrelevant. Men and women can get involved and manage their own money equally, have equal control, equal voices, equal participation, exactly as it should be. That's why I'm looking for something in your proposal and your answers to justify how images of women in poses are going to help promote this message of equality and inclusivity. Women are under-represented in the field of crypto, as in all technology fields. That is a problem that begins in childhood when girls are given pretty dolls to play with instead of Lego and computers. I was never interested in dolls. (In case it's not clear yet I am a woman.) I was given my first computer when I was 4 years old because that was what I so desperately wanted. Perhaps I was exceptional, perhaps I was lucky or perhaps I was born just in time. Young girls today are bombarded with media, magazines, advertising, music videos, even TV and movies all telling women that the most important thing is their appearance, that first and foremost they must be slim and sexy. Women complain about "tampon tax" yet spend a fortune on cosmetics, even cosmetic surgery. And many women do this instead of taking control of their own education, their technology and their finances, not as well as. Because they spent their school IT lessons trying to catch the attention of boys while the boys were learning the computers. At every opportunity women have to empower themselves, too many are still choosing to prioritise conformity with the stereotype instead. Women and girls who can't conform to what society demands of their appearance tend to feel excluded, inadequate and even depressed and suicidal.

@jimbursch says the problem is sexism. It is, but in a much deeper, society-mandated form. He is right however that the issue goes much further than your proposal. And for me an important question is where your calendar sits within this landscape. Are women looking at this calendar going to be inspired by the achievements of the original heroic figures and feel liberated and empowered enough to spend their next salary on dash instead of make-up or diet pills? Crucially to the theme of equality, this is a choice men never (usually) have to make. Or are they going to see just more images of slim, attractive women to compound the myth that their appearance matters above all else?

Perhaps you haven't considered the calendar within that context and are aiming for "eye candy" with a hook to Dash. You know as well as I do that this can be done without short skirts and cleavages. But if that's the angle, it risks sending the message that the women of Dash are here to look pretty while the men do all the technical stuff, and I don't see how it's going to do women or Dash any favours, and it begs the next important question: how controversial do you want this calendar to be? How much of the potential audience is it worth alienating just to get people talking about the project?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Chosen

jimbursch

Well-known Member
Mar 5, 2017
837
502
163
57
I have a suggestion...

Instead of a "Women of Dash" pinup calendar, do a Hedy Lamarr tribute calendar with you modeling Hedy's accomplishments as a technological inventor.


 

Chosen

New Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
May 14, 2017
5
4
3
UK
DashIsDigitalCash.com
Dash Address
XchosenZLu3Cu86B4tWATwcx7BSNxHqpaR
I'm liking the progression of the idea! Historically accurate portrayal for the win! My vote is turning towards yes and I may even buy a calender!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBigCat

Tallyho

Member
Mar 15, 2015
124
68
78
@TheBigCat, I do appreciate the reassurances on attire that you added to your original post. I'm afraid I missed it earlier and I think it's too important to be missed because this might well influence some votes. I hope that quoting it will help highlight it:

NOTE: The "Evolutionary Women of Dash Calendar" will differ from the ones I've produced below, specifically in the models' attire. In other words, no short shorts or bikinis, folks. (Amelia Earhart would look funny like that) Just fancy costumes appropriate to the era the historic woman is from and some clever settings with some historic info plus info on Dash, the blockchain, crypto-currency etc.
You've certainly set yourself a challenge in striking the right balance and I do admire your balls in being prepared to take it on. Your aim with this project is to get people talking about Dash, I'd like to try and help make sure that it generates the right kind of controversy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joemoraca

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Aw, thanks @jimbursch, @Chosen and @Tallyhoo! [emoji177] for helping start my day with good vibes and inspiration! (I know you were just kidding but paying me a very high compliment, Jim [emoji38])

The challenge is real but I do love this kind of work! I will put my whole heart and soul into it now that I feel I have the support of my cool Dash community! Stay tuned for more developments [emoji74]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: joemoraca

jimbursch

Well-known Member
Mar 5, 2017
837
502
163
57
I know you were just kidding
Honestly, I wasn't kidding. You have the look to pull off the modeling.

After doing some cursory research, the timing for a Hedy Lamarr tribute is perfect. This year, a feature-length documentary about Hedy Lamarr produced by Susan Sarandon was screened at Tribeca and will be airing on PBS:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/bombshell-hedy-lamarr-story-997292

The official website of Hedy Lamarr is anemic, which indicates no active money is behind it:
http://www.hedylamarr.com/

You would have to get permission and perhaps pay a licensing fee to the rep of the Lamarr estate:
http://www.hedylamarr.com/business/

Hedy Lamarr is a bona-fide tech hero who is a woman. And we have the opportunity to pay tribute to her in Dash.
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Wow... very interesting info on Hedy, Jim! I will check it all out [emoji41] Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
@jimbursch and @Tallyho maybe another cool idea is to put together a scholarship for girls who want to get into tech called something like "The Hedy Lamarr Tech Scholarship, sponsored by Dash" ;) If you two would like to brainstorm about that as an another project, I'd be up for it! We might be able to collab with the producers of the Hedy movie...Let's start another thread for this :)
 

stellabelle

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
293
185
103
USA
medium.com
I think there is value in outreaching to people in creative ways. It's why I really like the work that stellabelle is doing and also some of the things that DashForce is doing to branch out. Relative to our other projects, these types of campaigns don't require a very large percentage of funding from the DAO, and they appeal to audiences that we otherwise might not have any exposure to. I like this idea and hope you are able to run with it.

My main concern is that the size of the Dash community right now is smaller than that of the Ron Paul campaign, which was widely known for its numerous and relentlessly dedicated activist supporters, more so than even the most hardcore cryptocurrency community that I have seen. So like you said, I wouldn't expect a large number of sales and a lot of these would probably be given away as comps. (omg maybe we should sell Dash themed fidget spinners? o_O) As @jimbursch suggested it might have even more impact if it's integrated well into a broader campaign

This is the kind of thing I think we should be encouraging as a community though, so I would probably be in favor of it, whatever direction you want to take it --
Omg, I had the idea of creating Dash Fidget Spinners too!!!!!
I think we should....
 

stellabelle

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
293
185
103
USA
medium.com
When I first heard about this, I was very gung-ho, but I have to admit, as we talked more about it, I think it would be really cool to have the calendar focused on the history of money, and payments. There are probably all kinds of unknown stories about women in the history of money that no one knows, so that would be a calendar that would have a lot of relevance to DASH, as I see it eventually taking the place of Paypal. Also, the role of women in the decentralized space, would be a connection as well.

As long as the art direction is not cheesey or exploitative of women, I think this is a good idea to generate media buzz, like you said. Everything depends on the level of artistic merit. If it's done properly, i.e., in a very creative and artistic non-cheesey way, then it will be something to add value to Dash. It really does all depend on the art direction. As an artist myself, I have to admit, I was not very impressed with the Ron Paul artistic direction of the calendars. Exploiting women is a trope that is just pretty gross to see, year after year, and it damages women in ways that I think is sad, more than anything else. Being a part of this exploitation is not helping us.....
It was too cheesey for my taste. I am supportive of creativity, though, so I think the more various projects that Dash has, the more people will be attracted to it.

So, it's a yes from me if I can please see some examples that don't exploit women. Where is your sample of this art direction?

Next time, it would be wise to show us samples of your art direction that are not exploitive, so that we can get an idea of what kind of artistic style you possess. By showing us this cheesey stuff, it actually doesn't serve you very well.
 
Last edited:

stellabelle

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
293
185
103
USA
medium.com
"The objectification of women is not empowering - it's demeaning and harmful "

I totally agree. That's why when i first saw the Ron Paul calendar women, I was not too enthusiastic about a calendar for Dash. Way too exploitative for my taste, and beyond that cheesey, too......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tallyho

stellabelle

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
293
185
103
USA
medium.com
It's great to celebrate women who made historic achievements and I think such a theme would be a cool idea for international women's day or something, but I really don't see the connection with Dash. If the aim is to reach out to non-techie people I don't see how objectifying women will achieve this. Can you post any samples of your work where women aren't sexualised and objectified or are the pictures you've attached representative of how you intend to present this calendar?

In my opinion, the importance our society puts on female appearance and sexual attractiveness is a huge part of the reason why more women aren't technically inclined. Our society teaches girls from a young age that as long as they have nice figures and show them off, know how to apply make-up and follow fashions, they can disregard all the technology and finance know-how and other intelligent stuff and leave it to whatever man they catch. If we're serious about attracting women and girls to cryptocurrency, then perpetuating society's idea that a woman is judged on her looks first is absolutely emphatically NOT the way to do it.
I totally agree with you on this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chosen and Tallyho

stellabelle

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
293
185
103
USA
medium.com
So, are you saying that it would not be exploitative at all? If it is, I too, won't be interested in this project.
Can I please see a sample of your art/photo work that is not exploitative of women?
 

stellabelle

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
293
185
103
USA
medium.com
@TheBigCat, I do appreciate the reassurances on attire that you added to your original post. I'm afraid I missed it earlier and I think it's too important to be missed because this might well influence some votes. I hope that quoting it will help highlight it:



You've certainly set yourself a challenge in striking the right balance and I do admire your balls in being prepared to take it on. Your aim with this project is to get people talking about Dash, I'd like to try and help make sure that it generates the right kind of controversy.
Her "balls"....I think you've been in a crypto land too long...
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Pin up just means it's a wall calendar as opposed to a calendar that sits on a desk as a little tent. I think your connotation of that is something else. As stated, there would be no nudity in the calendar, since it will be safe for the work place and public display. I hope that helps! I appreciate your support in this idea, @stellabelle. Anyone who is not interested in it, of course does not need to participate. I think I have explained the differences between this and the calendars I have done in the past pretty specifically. I only want people participating you feel comfortable with it. Thank you so much for your questions and input.

We also now have Susanne templehoff onboard as Cleopatra, so the list continues... [emoji851]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
363
134
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Proposal Evaluation Committee

Hi TheBigCat

Just want to find out if you are planning to submit your proposal officially, i.e. Pay the 5 Dash to submit it?
If so, do you agree to the PEC (Proposal Evaluation Committee) assisting you in preparing your Pre-Proposal?

The way we do it is to give a Report on your Proposal highlighting areas that you can improve.
As you improve the Proposal the Report is adjusted and this may be done a number of times (up to 5 or more), each time the chance of your Proposal being accepted by the MNO’s will increase.

The Report also has another function:
To give the Pre-Proposal a percentage mark. This percentage will make it possible to give the MNO’s and community a prioritized List of Evaluated Proposals. This list will save everyone time and increase the chance of your Proposal gaining votes.

However, please be aware that the PEC has not officially been accepted by the MNO’s. We are also in the Pre-Proposal phase, so you have no obligation to partake.
If you want to know who will be doing the Evaluations – see here: Official PEC Pre-P https://goo.gl/qrbeXK

If you do want to use our services (note this is a free service)
1. Please PM me on the Dash Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions Forum indicating agreement.
2. and if you have not done this yet, please read: How to submit a Dash Pre-Proposal https://goo.gl/7jmwXQ
3. Once you have read it you might want to adjust your Pre-Proposal before we submit the 1st Report, so I will wait for you to give us the go-ahead before we start the evaluation process.

If you don’t want the PEC to evaluate the Proposal – please PM me as well, then I won’t bug you again for an answer ;)

Good luck with your Proposal!
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
@Biltong, I've been getting more interesting feedback from other sources. Will either put this project on hold until closer to the release of "Evolution" or/and create gradual virtual "evolutionary women of Dash" features, which would be another kind of project [emoji74]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
363
134
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Thanx BigCat,
Don't disappear - we need ideas :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: joemoraca

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Thanks, Biltong. I'm planning a few gigs performing my original music (jazz/lounge/trip-hop) in Berlin this September, so if time permits you'll all see one or two "Evolutionary Women of Dash" in historic splendor before I jet off [emoji74]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk