[Request for Improvement] Make Dashcentral.org troll-proof

Macrochip

Active Member
Feb 1, 2015
223
185
103
Dashcentral is a platform that gained tremendous value to the Dash community as a whole. I don't think there is a single proposal that doesn't go through it. At time of writing 54% of all existing Masternodes are registered with it and it goes without saying that the discussions there heavily influence the decisions of Masternode operators (as evident from many comments saying "I switched my votes because of what X said").

So next to the Dash forum right here, it is one of our main communication and discussion hubs regarding proposals. In essence it's the heart of our decision making engine. This must not be underestimated.

Now on the Dash Forum anyone can register and participate, which makes sense as it offers a general communications platform on Dash where proposals aren't the main focus. Masternode operators can be easily distinguished from non-MNOs through badges, which for now is enough to filter discussions for valid input.

But what about Dashcentral? It offers Masternode hosting, Masternode monitoring, Masternode management, proposal hosting, proposal discussions, an overview over the budget... do you see a pattern here?

It's all about Masternode- and proposal-owners. No one else. It's not even the "main" focus. It's the only focus of that platform.

So what possible incentive could someone without a Masternode and without a proposal have, when signing up to Dashcentral? Isn't it obvious? They want to influence the discussion. They want to alienate proposal owners from Masternode owners, seed distrust and FUD. They want to divide us and break our decision making processes. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is happening right now. Trolling by non-stakeholders is rampant on Dashcentral. Go browse through the comments of any proposal. Complete nobodies participate in discussions disparaging either the proposal owner or the integrity of our Treasury in general.

Do we really want to see Dashcentral devolve into a cesspit like Reddit/Bitcointalk?

I propose an easy measure: Anyone signing up to Dashcentral must prove at registration to own at least one Masternode or have burned the proposal fee and thus owns a proposal.

Our Treasury is huge now and the price of success is attracting not only more people, but also scum. We must up our defenses asap. @rango
 
  • Like
Reactions: j0shua

Acedian

Member
Mar 17, 2017
243
71
88
Dash Address
XeMABbcebB5yeZH2HxsV7yLNJA9hbzMgpz
Anyone can give their opinion on pre-proposals here, there is no need for the same to be true on DashCentral for proposals. Only proven proposers and MNO should have voice on DashCentral. This will cut down on the nonsense we have to wade through to get the bottom of an issue.
 

jimbursch

Well-known Member
Mar 5, 2017
837
501
163
57
This makes very good sense to me. As a proposal owner, I am very happy with the open discussion from the entire community that takes place on the pre-proposal forum. It's redundant for the same thing to happen on Dash Central -- I would much prefer that the discussion there be focused on and from the MNOs, with pointers to the open discussion on the forum.
 

thedesertlynx

Active Member
Sep 6, 2016
162
150
103
34
Yes, in total agreement, even though that would prevent me from commenting there. There's plenty of public forums, and brigading a forum meant for masternodes is a little bit concerning. Remember all the pains Bitcoin has had because of the sock puppets. Suffer not the trolls.
 

raze

King of the Morlocks
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 9, 2014
337
372
233
Dash Address
Xtrdw361DvoyDhxL5XoeAvTxTPvM4dXuLW
So what possible incentive could someone without a Masternode and without a proposal have, when signing up to Dashcentral? Isn't it obvious? They want to influence the discussion.
Of course they do. But I think it's a mistake to assume that because they don't own a Masternode, they must have bad intentions. Because it is a central hub for discussing governance proposals and because everyone (not just Masternode owners) is affected by the outcome of proposals, I think discussion should as open as possible to allow the for the broadest spectrum of input. I think placing restrictions based on Masternode ownership, rather than on the quality of one's input, unfairly excludes those who may otherwise have valuable insights to add to the conversation on what's arguably the governance system's most important platform. I think that's the wrong approach to take.

I would, however, support more active moderation to tackle obviously counter-productive content.
 

Jmmon

New Member
Mar 9, 2017
16
15
3
Of course they do. But I think it's a mistake to assume that because they don't own a Masternode, they must have bad intentions. Because it is a central hub for discussing governance proposals and because everyone (not just Masternode owners) is affected by the outcome of proposals, I think discussion should as open as possible to allow the for the broadest spectrum of input. I think placing restrictions based on Masternode ownership, rather than on the quality of one's input, unfairly excludes those who may otherwise have valuable insights to add to the conversation on what's arguably the governance system's most important platform. I think that's the wrong approach to take.

I would, however, support more active moderation to tackle obviously counter-productive content.
I think there are plenty other active spaces for non-MNOs to voice their opinion on proposals, including the forum, Reddit, and slack. But even if we don't go so far as to restrict the conversation on DashCentral to only MNOs and proposal owners, I'd support adding "MNO" and "Proposal Owner" banners on DashCentral to help provide some clarity. This might be easier than actively moderating DashCentral and would still allow everyone to voice their opinion on that website.
 

Macrochip

Active Member
Feb 1, 2015
223
185
103
Of course they do. But I think it's a mistake to assume that because they don't own a Masternode, they must have bad intentions. Because it is a central hub for discussing governance proposals and because everyone (not just Masternode owners) is affected by the outcome of proposals, I think discussion should as open as possible to allow the for the broadest spectrum of input. I think placing restrictions based on Masternode ownership, rather than on the quality of one's input, unfairly excludes those who may otherwise have valuable insights to add to the conversation on what's arguably the governance system's most important platform. I think that's the wrong approach to take.
It's not "everyone" that is affected. That's just the thing. It is about filtering out the unaffected elements, that seek to sabotage us. And yes: They exist. Plenty.

Only people with a significant amount of Dash are affected by proposals and their outcome. And these people have many other platforms at their disposal if they own <1k Dash:

This forum (the proposal section in specific), the subreddit, the Dash Nation slack and if you're a glutton for punishment: even Bitcointalk.

An analogy comes to mind:
A trial is held in public where every witness (with or without a stake in the outcome) can give input. But in the end the jury decides isolated in a separate room among itself.

As a middle route users that genuinely want to provide legitimate and valuable input there's always the option of cryptographically proving ownership of let's say for example 50 Dash minimum that must be kept at the same address or face account deactivation (just like running a Masternode), though personally I'm convinced Dashcentral should be an MNO-only turf for reasons laid out in OP.

I would, however, support more active moderation to tackle obviously counter-productive content.
What I propose avoids the creation of a centralized moderation authority that may or may not have conflicts of interest, needs to be paid, will be prone to error etc. etc. Just apply one big filter at the entrance and then be done with it. Easy.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
1,254
797
183
I agree with this. It makes sense because I recognize that there is a need for both. Ideally there should be a venue for non-MNOs to discuss proposals if they want to (the forum, slack, Reddit,...etc), but there also needs to be a venue for MNOs exclusively, which is something we don't have right now.
 

ampp

Member
Feb 12, 2017
184
75
88
USA
A simple solution is to have a checkbox to show masternode comments only. I think people without masternodes could have great comments and questions. But if a masternode owner wants to filter it out then more power to them.

Masternodes should also be able to ask questions anonymously. I believe people will have more security concerns once masternodes are worth million(s).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jmmon and akhavr

Acedian

Member
Mar 17, 2017
243
71
88
Dash Address
XeMABbcebB5yeZH2HxsV7yLNJA9hbzMgpz
A simple solution is to have a checkbox to show masternode comments only. I think people without masternodes could have great comments and questions. But if a masternode owner wants to filter it out then more power to them.

Masternodes should also be able to ask questions anonymously. I believe people will have more security concerns once masternodes are worth million(s).
As already posted by a few people, there are already plenty of publicly accessible lines of communication. But, at the end of the day, it is MNO that have the most to lose from proposals passing/failing.
There should be open discussion on all proposals, but when the proposal is standing at the "gates of acceptance" only the gate keepers can judge its worthiness.

As to security concerns, perhaps masternode owners should be assigned a random ID number on DashCentral to maintain anonymity. No identifiable information should be publicly stored or listed.
 

UdjinM6

Official Dash Dev
Core Developer
Dash Core Team
May 20, 2014
3,639
3,537
1,183
I see why this is disturbing but I'd like to warn you from applying the most obvious and straightforward solution i.e. from pushing non-MNOs out of the platform completely - this can turn the platform into an echo chamber which in its turn could lead to a situation where MNOs would be making bad (poorly informed) decisions. A message filter seems like a good (and probably also an easy to implement) option imo. Another option could be a proof of owning some (relatively small) amount of Dash which can be done by signing a message with a key which corresponds to that address. Address balance is easy to check even without running a node via some API e.g. https://explorer.dash.org/chain/Dash/q/addressbalance/XsV4GHVKGTjQFvwB7c6mYsGV3Mxf7iser6.
 

Acedian

Member
Mar 17, 2017
243
71
88
Dash Address
XeMABbcebB5yeZH2HxsV7yLNJA9hbzMgpz
I see why this is disturbing but I'd like to warn you from applying the most obvious and straightforward solution i.e. from pushing non-MNOs out of the platform completely - this can turn the platform into an echo chamber which in its turn could lead to a situation where MNOs would be making bad (poorly informed) decisions. A message filter seems like a good (and probably also an easy to implement) option imo. Another option could be a proof of owning some (relatively small) amount of Dash which can be done by signing a message with a key which corresponds to that address. Address balance is easy to check even without running a node via some API e.g. https://explorer.dash.org/chain/Dash/q/addressbalance/XsV4GHVKGTjQFvwB7c6mYsGV3Mxf7iser6.
The only way that it would become an echo chamber is if no public interaction was possible. This is not the case as there are many platforms available for this.
Also, there are thousands of masternode owners. This gives enough clarity on proposals for the majority to make the best choice.
 

IronVape

Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 26, 2016
117
75
78
I'm not worried about an echo chamber.
I am worried about the site not being owned by the DAO itself.
No disparagement to Rango, but making us even more dependent on a 3rd party site is IMO very poor long term planning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slamdunk

rango

Active Member
Jun 19, 2014
158
221
103
Thank you for your support guys. The system is ready to stop posts derived from non MNOs at any time. ATM i don’t see that the pain is large enough to justify that kind of action. Pushing out other opinions is always something that should be avoided. But i’ll add a flag that will allow distinguishment of MNO and non-MNO comments. That should help a lot.
 

thedesertlynx

Active Member
Sep 6, 2016
162
150
103
34
Thank you for your support guys. The system is ready to stop posts derived from non MNOs at any time. ATM i don’t see that the pain is large enough to justify that kind of action. Pushing out other opinions is always something that should be avoided. But i’ll add a flag that will allow distinguishment of MNO and non-MNO comments. That should help a lot.
Thanks for the help Rango. If you can color-code that would be helpful as well, and we'll strongly encourage MNOs to claim their badge.
 

Macrochip

Active Member
Feb 1, 2015
223
185
103
Maybe the issue is too abstract for some. Let's illustrate. Mastermined has a fine example in stock:

captainobvious 2 points,4 days ago
This video is low budget noise, but aren't you Brian Freeman, the guy who's sucking out 200 Dash a month in salaries for a Dash troll wanker squad? I'm sure that's wonderful for Dash's image so maybe it is worth the $30,000 per month you are all getting paid. Your comment is ironic, but maybe you are just guarding your fair share of the free loot.
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/AwesomeSongforDash

captainobvious -2 points,4 days ago
I have a better idea. Rango why don't you view source on dashtreasury.org, copy and paste into this site. Dashcentral is terrible and looks like it hasn't been updated in years. Make this site better, please. It's getting worse by the day. Probably now doing Dash more harm than good.
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DashTreasuryorg-TakingDashto1
 
Last edited:

Macrochip

Active Member
Feb 1, 2015
223
185
103
BUMP.

The problem is becoming more and more visible and it starts to shine a real bad light on the Dash community.

@rango I implore you to ban the trolls or take another measure to make the trolling stop. I am willing to personally reimburse you for any incurring expenses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jmmon

ampp

Member
Feb 12, 2017
184
75
88
USA
The main thing i want to see is that only masternodes can post anonymously. Dash is still on the fringes of cryptocurrency and there has not been many fishing or directed hacking attempts yet. But people are getting their phone numbers stolen and ported out to break 2fa just having mentions on social media of owning crypto.

You also can't see user histories so it makes it harder to see if someone is trolling different threads quickly. That would help inform people faster.

If you wanted to be super fancy you make it so only masternodes can see who is a masternode or not. But that has its own set of issues.

There is also the 3rd category of approved proposal owners who can offer valuable input due to experiencing the proposal process.