Regarding how many voters vote.

TheDashGuy

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Dec 16, 2015
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I'm looking through all of these proposals on DashWhale and noticing some of the proposals have ALOT more votes overall then others. For example Lamassu has 2k+ total votes, most others have 1500 or less. Out of a total MN count of 3500....

Shouldn't we be pushing ways to get everyone involved so that collusion is not an issue, before it becomes one?

Why is there no weekly/monthly email blast about whats available to vote on? I feel like rango could easily find such a service useful to both him and the MN owners. Especially in these early years, where collusion is much more do-able. There should be a HUGE focus on these proposals, they should be published in many places, not just on DashWhale/DT.

There needs to be a constantly on going talk about this, every single day. The governance mechanism is just as important as the anonymity or instant ones. We should be focusing on this a bit more imo.


If we are expecting people to hunt down and vote for things, we are being naive.

As with politics, we need and will always need to constantly remind everyone to come vote on these proposals to ensure we are performing as intended.

I hope no one feels like that was me arguing, just my 2 cents.

Edit: Why is there no "daily/weekly dash recap" service? Just the most recent news in Dash ecosystem bunched into a weekly format? This would make it alot easier for people to keep up without devoting thier lives to dash.

Double edit:

GO VOTE:
https://www.dashwhale.org/budget
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/soda-reimbursement
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/satoshi-roundtable
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/Vendor-Experience
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/lamassu-integration
https://www.dashwhale.org/p/transform-pr

Be active in your community.
 
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David

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Jun 21, 2014
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With respect to why some proposals have more votes than others, Otoh (400 MNs) rarely votes because he doesn't want to be accused of unduly influencing things. He usually only votes on uncontroversial proposals (such as block size) in order to show solidarity with the community. (The exception is his opposition to Terpin-PR, but that may have been something he felt unusually strongly about, or he may have realized the proposal would pass anyway, so his "no" votes would only amount to a token vote and not change the outcome.)

I have a feeling that many on the core team are that way.

EDIT: With budget space filling up quickly, you're going to see some interesting dynamics at play. Some people will vote "no" on a project the support, for instance, because if it passes it would bump another project that they support more. Others may vote "no" on small and uncontroversial proposals because funding them would bump a much larger proposal and end up burning a significant amount of Dash. (Probably why there are so many "no's" on Soda Reimbursement. I doubt many people actually oppose it, but many are concerned that it could bump Terpin-PR and burn a lot of budget Dash, which is effectively wasted.)

People should remember that many factors are at play, and just because a proposal isn't passed doesn't mean that it isn't valuable or worthy. There may be other factors at play that you aren't aware of (such as the aforementioned cases) and retrying your proposal a few months down the road may do the trick.
 

rango

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Jun 19, 2014
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TheDashGuy

You already can enable proposal notifications (mobile, email, slack) within your Dashwhale account settings.

We also offer a public API to distribute proposal information as well as comments to other websites. https://www.dashwhale.org/dbin For now, the API has only been used by crowning.

I agree with David , the differences in absolute voting counts are related to the fact that a handful of whales a) don't want to influence decision making on certain proposals b) are to lazy to vote on each tiny proposal. So i don't think we have a problem with notifying MN operators about new proposals.
 

TheDashGuy

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Dec 16, 2015
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TheDashGuy

You already can enable proposal notifications (mobile, email, slack) within your Dashwhale account settings.

We also offer a public API to distribute proposal information as well as comments to other websites. https://www.dashwhale.org/dbin For now, the API has only been used by crowning.

I agree with David , the differences in absolute voting counts are related to the fact that a handful of whales a) don't want to influence decision making on certain proposals b) are to lazy to vote on each tiny proposal. So i don't think we have a problem with notifying MN operators about new proposals.
Would you mind putting together an example usage of that? Not all of us can work with an API :p

But all of us can copy and paste a iframe! I would love to have the latest proposals updated onto my website, just not sure how to go about getting it done.

You could easily bring in more traffic to DashWhale by supplying a weekly/bi-monthly snapshot of whats going on, just a thought. Toss some advertising on there. $$ (Not saying you need the cash obviously, just an idea)

edit: Like why is there no feed on top of Dashtalk of new proposals? Or better yet, a page on Dash.org that has a feed of all the most recent proposals/descriptions/links? (Again, just thoughts)
 

David

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Jun 21, 2014
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rango

Could y'all update the android app with the ability to vote from within the app? That would be amazing for when I'm out of town!
 
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TheDashGuy

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I'll knock up some API samples
Woot! That'd be awesome! He'll we should have "Official Dash Widget" that serves this stuff up on ANY website, with code provided. for all types of layouts.... that would be a hit!

Multiple branches of this "iframe information feed" idea are possible:
-Dash Proposal List
-Recent Proposals
-Recent Comments on a certain proposal
-Masternode stats
-Recent DashWhale news (might as well do an RSS feed though for that)

I could go on and on. Just toss a logo on the bottom or side and link to dashwhale and its already worth your time/investment rango

Thanks for being a boss acidburn! /fistbump
 

Solarminer

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Apr 4, 2015
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EDIT: With budget space filling up quickly, you're going to see some interesting dynamics at play. Some people will vote "no" on a project the support, for instance, because if it passes it would bump another project that they support more. Others may vote "no" on small and uncontroversial proposals because funding them would bump a much larger proposal and end up burning a significant amount of Dash. (Probably why there are so many "no's" on Soda Reimbursement. I doubt many people actually oppose it, but many are concerned that it could bump Terpin-PR and burn a lot of budget Dash, which is effectively wasted.)
To be clear, the 100 dash from the Soda Reimbursement and any of the 5 dash projects won't bump any proposals as it is now. The Sotoshi-Roundtable is the proposal that will bump one of the bigger projects. If we are worried about wasting funds, there should be many more projects in the 100-300 range to fill the gaps when the big proposals get bumped like this.
 

David

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Jun 21, 2014
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To be clear, the 100 dash from the Soda Reimbursement and any of the 5 dash projects won't bump any proposals as it is now. The Sotoshi-Roundtable is the proposal that will bump one of the bigger projects. If we are worried about wasting funds, there should be many more projects in the 100-300 range to fill the gaps when the big proposals get bumped like this.
Sorry I didn't mean it in terms of chronological order of proposals. I meant it more like this:

Sally really likes Terpin-PR, Satoshi Roundtable, and Soda Reimbursement. Sally knows that they can't all be funded this month, so she prioritizes. She thinks Terpin-PR is really amazing and Satoshi Roundtable is great too. She thinks Soda Reimbursement is necessary and fair, but she values the other two proposals more, so she votes yes to them and no to Soda Reimbursement. Not because she doesn't want it to pass, but because she wants her two preferred items to pass more.

(Or she thinks Satoshi Roundtable is great but feels that Soda Reimbursement is most important because fair is fair, and so she reluctantly submits two yeses and one no. Not trying to demonstrate bias here; just clarifying what I meant.)
 

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
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Great point, still want to converse about the subject. It is politics after all? Is that an issue sir?
I don't think it is an issue. As of now you can't CAST an abstain vote, and there would be no point in doing so.
 

oaxaca

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Jul 8, 2014
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It would appear that Sally has 453 friends.

EDIT
---------------
472 friends
 

TheDashGuy

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It would appear that Sally has 453 friends.

EDIT
---------------
472 friends
DAYUM SALLY!

Democracy is a crazy thing, but hey now atleast we know we need to lobby more! To Reddit/Twitter/Friends with our findings!! We need to get a group together and call it "Dash Democracy Defenders"!

God my inner troll is coming out. /cry.
 

rango

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Jun 19, 2014
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rango

Could y'all update the android app with the ability to vote from within the app? That would be amazing for when I'm out of town!
Implementation will cost about 1 BTC for Android and 1-2 BTC for iOS (iOS is currently missing budget information completely). Since DW is funded by my own pockets and this feature requires hiring of an external dev, i'll postepone it, since it is not immediately important.
 
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David

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Implementation will cost about 1 BTC for Android and 1-2 BTC for iOS (iOS is currently missing budget information completely). Since DW is funded by my own pockets, i'll postepone it, since it is not immediately important.
That's too bad =(

Thanks anyway.
 

Solarminer

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Apr 4, 2015
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Sorry I didn't mean it in terms of chronological order of proposals. I meant it more like this:

Sally really likes Terpin-PR, Satoshi Roundtable, and Soda Reimbursement. Sally knows that they can't all be funded this month, so she prioritizes. She thinks Terpin-PR is really amazing and Satoshi Roundtable is great too. She thinks Soda Reimbursement is necessary and fair, but she values the other two proposals more, so she votes yes to them and no to Soda Reimbursement. Not because she doesn't want it to pass, but because she wants her two preferred items to pass more.

(Or she thinks Satoshi Roundtable is great but feels that Soda Reimbursement is most important because fair is fair, and so she reluctantly submits two yeses and one no. Not trying to demonstrate bias here; just clarifying what I meant.)
Voting no for the Soda Reimbersement will not allow both the other proposals to go through. One of the 718 or 1100 Dash proposals will get bounced and there will be more than 100 Dash available to fund projects like the Soda Reimbursement. The available funds is about 7500 next month and there are 8100 in proposals. There is enough misinformation being spread in these forums, please don't contribute to that.
 

David

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Jun 21, 2014
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Voting no for the Soda Reimbersement will not allow both the other proposals to go through. One of the 718 or 1100 Dash proposals will get bounced and there will be more than 100 Dash available to fund projects like the Soda Reimbursement. The available funds is about 7500 next month and there are 8100 in proposals. There is enough misinformation being spread in these forums, please don't contribute to that.
Touche. In reality, the point I'm making has nothing to do with any of the current proposals. I'm looking at the future, so I suppose I shouldn't use today's proposals as an example. In order to prevent any possibility of my spreading misinformation, permit me to rephrase:

"Sorry I didn't mean it in terms of chronological order of proposals. I meant it more like this:

"Sally really likes Proposal-A, Proposal-B, and the much smaller Proposal-C. Sally knows that they can't all be funded this month, so she prioritizes. She thinks Proposal_a is really amazing and Proposal-B is great too. She thinks Proposal-C is necessary and fair, but she values the other two proposals more, so she votes yes to them and no to Proposal-C. Not because she doesn't want it to pass, but because she wants her two preferred items to pass more.

"(Or she thinks Proposal-B is great but feels that Proposal-C is most important because fair is fair, and so she reluctantly submits two yeses and one no. Not trying to demonstrate bias here; just clarifying what I meant.)"
 
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TheDashGuy

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David I think the idea here is let the voters choose and eventually everything works out.

We can't add in "weight" to each proposal behind the scenes, let the nodes decide. If something gets bumped, owell. Such is democracy.

Hopefully, I understood what you were saying.
 

David

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Jun 21, 2014
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David I think the idea here is let the voters choose and eventually everything works out.

We can't add in "weight" to each proposal behind the scenes, let the nodes decide. If something gets bumped, owell. Such is democracy.

Hopefully, I understood what you were saying.
Essentially, yes. I was just basically explaining why someone might vote against a proposal even though they are in favor of it. I agree--nobody can make those determinations or "weight" things other than the voter.
 
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