Pre-Proposal: Would you like to be able to vote with number? (v2)

[vazaki3]

The original thread was locked, so I repost the thread, in order for the discussion to be continued, and most importantly, in order for the vote to be continued.

This is a question to all masternode owners.

In the budget system you are allowed to vote only by using a yes or a no.
Would you like to be able to cast a vote using numbers, into specially designed for that purpose polls?
The result of the vote is extracted by calculating the average of all numerical votes.

<locked thread's vote history>
Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?

• yes
  Votes: 9 -- 15.8%
  • demo
  • Cointastic
  • Leonidas
  • revelations86
  • healey
  • cibrigue
  • blockchaintech
  • ICJR
  • Mateus Medeiros
• no
  Votes: 42 -- 73.7%
  • aleix
  • splawik21
  • tungfa
  • itscrazybro
  • yidakee
  • JGCMiner
  • MangledBlue
  • Ryan Taylor
  • TaoOfSatoshi
  • GNULinuxGuy
  • qwizzie
  • QuantumExplorer
  • bandidorl
  • camosoul
  • dotbeee
  • spatula
  • kot
  • joezippy
  • martinf
  • jarroyo
  • JZA
  • halso
  • piggy
  • DashNation
  • Schnuppdog
  • Darren
  • Balwin
  • bigshort
  • Kevin Stalker
  • Michael Q
  • Dima
  • GuerraDiValute
  • solarguy
  • Acedian
  • slava_m
  • Biltong
  • Chadrick
  • GoodVibe
  • TheSingleton
  • Antti Kaikkonen
  • Ftoole
  • Coqui33
• other
  Votes: 4 -- 7.0%
  • noobtrader
  • GrandMasterDash
  • TroyDASH
  • TheDashGuy
• yes, but only for the median average
  Votes: 2 -- 3.5%
  • dashly
  • Pietro Speroni
• Total voters 57

</locked thread's vote history>

 

[vazaki3]

Read the article of @Pietro Speroni

Let the DAO decide “how much” – Pietro Speroni di Fenizio, PhD

I proposed this in July of this year (2021) to the Dash Incubator (another part of the Dash Democracy), and it was then approved. So hopefully it should see the light of day soon enough. Part of the aim of this document is to explain to masternode owners what this change would entail, and why we should adopt it.

 

[vazaki3]

Below I delete the heretic views of @Pietro Speroni , that are against the orthodox way of voting the numbers.

"It’s very important that we pick the median and not the average (also known as the mean), the reason will be clear after. If you order all the votes from the lowest to the highest one, the median will be the vote in the middle (if the number of votes is odd) or halfway between the two middle votes (if the number of votes is even). The standard voting procedures apply: you should not be allowed to see what others have voted before the end of the voting period… but in this case, it does not really matter; voting should be anonymous… but the system works also if it is not anonymous. In short, it is a very robust decision-making system."

 

[vazaki3]

"So why it is important to use the median and not the average? Because a single person can manipulate the average by throwing in an impossibly high or low number." ..........

Pietro is a mathematician, and thinks as a mathematician. But despite what the mathematicians claim, numbers are not infinitive. In reality, in nature, there is always a maximum and a minumum. Even the whole universe is bounded. So a voter should be allowed to vote for this physical maximum or minimum. He should not be allowed to vote for irrational numbers that have no impact to reality.

In nature, most of the times voting occurs by using the mean average. So the natural average is the mean average.
The median average is a rare voting method in nature, mostly it is a human concept, that may be of course applied to the societies of the enslaved human beeings if they want it, but it is NOT mandatorily applied to the free spirits which have the freedom to choose whatever method they like, as long as the method can adapt to the reality of the nature.

As long as the voting choices are bounded between a max and a minimum rational number, a result can always be extracted when voting the numbers. Someone may claim that if we allow the maximum or minimum possible number to be voted, and we use the mean average in order to extract the result, then the result will be irrational. The result turns irrational because irrational is the method used to extract the result. Depending on the question, the voters should be allowed to select their prefered method. They should not be forced to chose only the condorcet method. If they ask you to vote a number between 1-256, never vote a single number (for ex.123). You should always vote (123,mean) or (123,median) or (123, whatever method you may think) . Or even better, instead of 123 , you can also use sliders.This is known as double vote, and this is how spirits vote. (They actually vote by using a triple vote, not to mention the conditional votes, but let me explain these later on)

............. "In fact if someone knew all the votes so far, and were the last person to vote could generally get the value they wanted simply by voting a number high enough or low enough (negative numbers included for this)"

There is no such thing as "the last person to vote". Voting never expires. Nature is always in motion, and always votes. So in case someone votes the maximum number, the other voters can change their mind and vote the minimum, in order to stabilize the result. When voting, you should always take into account the votes of the others, otherwise your vote is stupid. Voters should be educated to the games theory.

 

[vazaki3]

In order to extract the result of the poll, you should take into account both current votes and the votes of the locked thread, provided of course that the voters of the locked thread are not dead.

<vote history>
Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?

• yes
  Votes: 2 -- 66.7%
  • vazaki3
  • DashElSalvador
• no
  Votes: 1 -- 33.3%
  • akhavr
• other
  Votes: 00.0%
• yes, but only for the median average
  Votes: 00.0%
• 
  
• Total voters 3

</vote history>


DASH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE MASTERNODES ARE VOTING.

THE MASTERNODES KEEP VOTING SHIT, THATS WHY DASH REMAINS SHIT!

 

[vazaki3]

In order to extract the result of the poll, you should take into account both current votes and the votes of the locked thread, provided of course that the voters of the locked thread are not dead.

<vote history>
Would you like to be able to cast votes using numbers and extract the results as an average?

• yes
  Votes: 2 ---- 50.0%
  • vazaki3
  • DashElSalvador
• no
  Votes: 2 ---- 50.0%
  • akhavr
  • AgnewPickens
• other
  Votes: 0 ---- 0.0%
• yes, but only for the median average
  Votes: 00.0%

• Total voters 4

</vote history>

 

[vazaki3]

Pietro is a mathematician, and thinks as a mathematician. But despite what the mathematicians claim, numbers are not infinitive. In reality, in nature, there is always a maximum and a minumum. Even the whole universe is bounded. So a voter should be allowed to vote for this physical maximum or minimum. He should not be allowed to vote for irrational numbers that have no impact to reality.

Another proof that infinitive does not exist, and that the mathematicians that rely on infinitive in order to prove their theories are wrong.
1+2+3+4+5+......= -1/12

1+2+3+4+5+... = -1/12 ??? Infini 5 - YouTube
ASTOUNDING: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + ... = -1/12 - YouTube

Of course some mathematicians are trying to refuse the above theory.

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ⋯ - Wikipedia
Numberphile v. Math: the truth about 1+2+3+...=-1/12 - YouTube

But the truth is that Infinitive does not exist in reality. Nothing in the universe is infinitive.

Some more proof about it.
Riemann's paradox: pi = infinity minus infinity - YouTube

 

[vazaki3]

You may think that there is no way to vote the numbers in the current budget voting system. Well, there is!
So, how can we vote the numbers in the current budget system?

Simple, you have to use the TERNARY or ΤRINARY or BASE3 NUMERAL system

If you make the assumption that ABSTAIN_VOTE=0, NO_VOTE=1 and YES_VOTE=2 , then you can vote numbers from 0-2.
if you cast TWO proposals (at the cost of 2 dash proposal fee) under the TERNARY system, then you can vote numbers from 0-8
if you cast THREE proposals (at the cost of 3 dash proposal fee) under the TERNARY system, then you can vote numbers from 0-26.

So if you want to vote from 0% to 100% and you afford to pay for 3 proposals, you can divide 100/26=3.84 and thus if the average of the voting result of the budget vote is 1 then 3.84% is voted, if the average result of the budget vote is 10 then 38.4% is voted, if the average result of budget vote is 15 then 57.6% is voted e.t.c.

By adding a fourth proposal, you can have 80 chunks, by adding a fifth proposal you can have 242 chunks, so you can increase the granularity of your vote.

Finally, you can also use the BASE4 numeral system (ABSTAIN_VOTE=1, NO_VOTE=2 and YES_VOTE=3) , if you make the assumption that the people who voted in at least one numeral proposal, declare a 0 vote to all the rest proposals that are associated to it.

Example: by using the 4base, with just 2 proposals (at the cost of 2 dash proposal fee) you can have 15-1=14 chunks (because the 00 vote is not a valid vote in that case).
proposal1, proposal2
didnt vote, didnt vote = 00 base4 = decimal 0 (didnt vote at all, invalid number. This is used to calculate abstention and thus decide whether the voting result is legitimate.)
didnt vote, abstain = 01 base4 = decimal 1
didnt vote, no = 02 base4 = decimal 2
didnt vote, yes = 03 base4 = decimal 3
abstain, didnt vote = 10 base4 = decimal 4
abstain, abstain = 11 base4 = decimal 5
abstain, no = 12 base4 = decimal 6
abstain, yes = 13 base4 = decimal 7
no , didnt vote = 20 base4 = decimal 8
no, abstain = 21 base4 = decimal 9
no, no = 22 base4 = decimal 10
no, yes = 23 base4 = decimal 11
yes, didnt vote = 30 base4 =decimal 12
yes, abstain = 31 base4 =decimal 13
yes, no = 32 base4 = decimal 14
yes, yes = 33 base4 = decimal 15

There are 10 kinds of humans.
These who understand the above, and these who do not.

 

[xkcd]

I think base3 is very confusing, either way, I think Dash Platform could be used for governance and if that is the case, then perhaps the designers can consider something like this to make it more granular that what we have now?

 

[vazaki3]

I think base3 is very confusing, either way, I think Dash Platform could be used for governance and if that is the case, then perhaps the designers can consider something like this to make it more granular that what we have now?

The official governance system of Dash is the budget system.

This is where the Dash community decides, there is no other place.

If we want to pass the governance credentials to another system and bypass the budget, I would rather prefer mnowatch.org to become the official governance system of Dash rather than the DashPlatform.