- Thread starter GrandMasterDash
- Start date

You are trying to imitate a vote with numbers.

Why not adding a poll that asks the proposal fee to become 12 dash?

Why not adding a poll that asks the proposal fee to become 100 dash?

**Let them free to select the proposal fee from 0 Dash to all Dash coins ** (=7,247,462)

For the puprose of allowing the**freedom of choice**, you must add 7,247,463 polls.

Or if you dont want to add 7,247,463 polls, just add a single poll and let it be a "vote the numbers" poll.

The way the community will vote will reveal to any external objective observer how many spies and stupids exist inside the community.

Why not adding a poll that asks the proposal fee to become 12 dash?

Why not adding a poll that asks the proposal fee to become 100 dash?

For the puprose of allowing the

Or if you dont want to add 7,247,463 polls, just add a single poll and let it be a "vote the numbers" poll.

The way the community will vote will reveal to any external objective observer how many spies and stupids exist inside the community.

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Of course, we don't really know how the core team is going to respond to it either way. Remember they were originally going to lower the fee in the 12.1 release (which would have been a convenient time to do it because we were already hardforking anyway) but it was changed back at the last minute out of caution.

YepWhat, are we in gradient descent search of the best proposal fee?

Note also

If the 5 dash proposal fee fails, this will be a proof on how much

Good idea, you should definitely spend 5 dash and propose it!Note alsothat the 5 dash proposal fee was never voted by the masternodes.It was just a hardcoded number.

Lets put a proposal asking for 5 dash proposal fee.

I bet that the 5 dash proposal fee will not get voted also.

If the 5 dash proposal fee fails, this will be a proof on how stupid the masternode community is.

If the 5 dash proposal fee passes, and as long as this 5 dash was initialy imposed and not voted, this will prove how conservative the masternode community is.

I have not 5 dash. I have only 1.Good idea, you should definitely spend 5 dash and propose it!

So lets go back before the arrival of @Technologov.Good idea, you should definitely spend 5 dash and propose it!

Is anyone interested in creating a multisig address, and do a

Lets start a list of the people who are interested in this fundrasing. Whenever the list reaches the 5 dash goal, we are going to

The list follows (it will be updated accordingly):

Yeah, let's try that out... Suppose all but one of the 4400 masternodes vote to lower the fee to 0.01 Dash. And the one other votes for the fee to be 7,247,463 Dash. The fee will then be raised to the average of 1,647 Dash.You are trying to imitate a vote with numbers.

Why not adding a poll that asks the proposal fee to become 12 dash?

Why not adding a poll that asks the proposal fee to become 100 dash?

Let them free to select the proposal fee from 0 Dash to all Dash coins(=7,247,462)

For the puprose of allowing thefreedom of choice, you must add 7,247,463 polls.

Or if you dont want to add 7,247,463 polls, just add a single poll and let it be a "vote the numbers" poll.

You hardcoded theYeah, let's try that out... Suppose all but one of the 4400 masternodes vote to lower the fee to 0.01 Dash. And the one other votes for the fee to be 7,247,462Dash. The fee will then be raised to the average of 1,647 Dash.

You should use the double vote <number, selection process>

In your example , if the selection process is voted to be the

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Since when was your vote the numbers not based on the mean? I don't think you have mentioned this before. Regardless, you would want to use the median, not the mode.You hardcoded themeanaverage selection process.

You should use the double vote <number, selection process>

In your example , if the selection process is voted to be themodeaverage, then the result will be 0.01 Dash.

I think you dont really understand what my proposition about voting the numbers really is.Since when was your vote the numbers not based on the mean? I don't think you have mentioned this before. Regardless, you would want to use the median, not the mode.

Please read here and here.

I have never hardcoded any average. My proposition is about the average in general, including all possible types of average. Although I personally like the mean average, then the mode average, and I mostly dislike the medium average, I think that the voters should be able to chose their prefered selection process when voting, buy using a double vote.

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So, my new stance on this is a fee of 400 Dash. Now, if you are risking 400 Dash you must have a good proposal and wouldn't even think of spamming.

At 400 dash, realistically no one would submit proposals for less than 800 apiece (too risky to ask less for the project than the reimbursement cost), which would mean fewer than 9 proposals per month would be possible. That would indeed scale, but the Masternodes can handle more than that. I would say the average proposal cost really can't go below 60 dash, that would be over a hundred proposals

So, my new stance on this is a fee of 400 Dash. Now, if you are risking 400 Dash you must have a good proposal and wouldn't even think of spamming.

I'm not sure why you think that?!... Mode average is most useless sense there are a few that own 100+ masternodes. One of those could very easily qualifiy as the mode, in which case, they have full power. The mean average is also useless because of the outlier votes. One person with a lot of masternodes can vote with a large number and pull the average significantly in one direction. The idea of ostracising those that are trying to be disruptive is pure nonsense. The median is obviously most relevant here... it's almost impossible to manipulate without controlling 51% of all masternodes. Median should be used over mean when outliers can potentially have a large impact on the final value.I have never hardcoded any average. My proposition is about the average in general, including all possible types of average. Although I personally like the mean average, then the mode average, and I mostly dislike the medium average, I think that the voters should be able to chose their prefered selection process when voting, buy using a double vote.

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I'm not sure why you think that?!... Mode average is most useless sense there are a few that own 100+ masternodes. One of those could very easily qualifiy as the mode, in which case, they have full power. The mean average is also useless because of the outlier votes. One person with a lot of masternodes can vote with a large number and pull the average significantly in one direction. The idea of ostracising those that are trying to be disruptive is pure nonsense. The median is obviously most relevant here... it's almost impossible to manipulate without controlling 51% of all masternodes. Median should be used over mean when outliers can potentially have a large impact on the final value.

My arguments in favor of the mode average and against the median average are as shown below:

It is the same with the mode average. One or two people trying an outragious proposal has zero impact.

The important thing is to let the voters see the number votes of the others and let them change their number vote whenever they wish. In worst case let them use the double vote (number, selection process) and give them the right to change the prefered selection process also, whenever they wish.

In the worst case of the median average, if the voters are polarized, then they will change their vote towards the middle in order not to let the middle voter (1.0001) to choose whatever he wants. There is also therisk for the numerous edge voters to give bribery to the few middle voters.

In the worst case of my mode average variation version 2 , the people who are close enough (0.1, 1) they will unite eachother in order not to let the most loved number (5) to pass.The association is the most possible scenarioand the bridery is not as possible as it is in the worst case of the median average.

Both worst cases are rarebut I think the polarization is more probable to happen, thus it is more possible for the median average to fail. Let the Statisticians do their research now, and reveal us which worst case is more probable.

Maybe it is, but it is a old time tradition in human relationships for centuries. It may looks pure nonsense, but if it is really a nonsense, then why it is such a common behavior for so long time? There must be a reason...The idea of ostracising those that are trying to be disruptive is pure nonsense.

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That simply isn't true when those 1 or 2 people control 100+ masternodes... Show me how these 1 or 2 people can manipulate a median, then I'll listen... I think you need to go back to the drawing board on this one.It is the same with the mode average. One or two people trying an outragious proposal has zero impact.

Of course 1 or 2 people who control 100+ masternodes can manipulate the median, because 100+ masternodes means 100+ votes. And also means they have a lot of money, so they can giveThat simply isn't true when those 1 or 2 people control 100+ masternodes... Show me how these 1 or 2 people can manipulate a median, then I'll listen... I think you need to go back to the drawing board on this one.

If you dont like 1 or 2 people who control 100+ masternodes to manipulate the vote result, then you can alternatively implement a proof of individuality and an ostracism scheme.

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You are too funny. They will just need to figure out all the votes in the median area and pay them off... Probably only need to figure out 100 or so to make a (small) difference, lol. Shouldn't take too long to figure out who those people are since this information is published and all, right? I suppose they could also collude to control 51% too.Of course 1 or 2 people who control 100+ masternodes can manipulate the median, because 100+ masternodes means 100+ votes. And also means they have a lot of money, so they can givebriberyto the median.

Have no clue what your talking about... Supply a link. You need 51% to CONTROL the median, otherwise your just controlling the vote by putting your votes around the median anyway... Seriously @demo, sometimes it's best just to concede and admit defeat, lol... Take my advice, will help you a lot in your personal life too.Finnaly, in case of polarizationthey can simply remove one of their votes and thus become the median who decides

Unless the Finnaly case is related to 2 votes tied for the median and one was removed so the other was used... If that's the case, then that's the weakest argument I've ever heard. The difference in median values with this many votes is minute and you haven't controlled anything. Again, please provide a link!

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You are too funny. They will just need to figure out all the votes in the median area and pay them off... Probably only need to figure out 100 or so to make a (small) difference, lol. Shouldn't take too long to figure out who those people are since this information is published and all, right? I suppose they could also collude to control 51% too.

Have no clue what your talking about...Supply a link. You need 51% to CONTROL the median, otherwise your just controlling the vote by putting your votes around the median anyway... Seriously @demo, sometimes it's best just to concede and admit defeat, lol... Take my advice, will help you a lot in your personal life too.

Unless the Finnaly case is related to 2 votes tied for the median and one was removed so the other was used... If that's the case, then that's the weakest argument I've ever heard. The difference in median values with this many votes is minute and you haven't controlled anything. Again, please provide a link!

Imagine this polarized set of votes. 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,9

The median is 2.

Someone who has a lot of votes, he keeps two of his votes and cast them the last minute.

0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,9,9

Now the median is 8.

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In your first set of numbers, the median was 2 and it was fair because there were 17 low numbers compared to 16 high numbers. The population preferred a lower number.Imagine this polarized set of votes. 0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,9

The median is 2.

Someone who has a lot of votes, he keeps two of his votes and cast them the last minute.

0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,9,9

Now the median is 8.

In a polarized set of votes, the one who has a lot of votes can manipulate the result whithin the bounds of the polarization.

In your second set of numbers, the median was 8 and it was fair because there were 17 low numbers compared to 18 high numbers. The population preferred a higher number.

A 51% win is, in fact, a win.

#Brexit

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