Pre-Proposal : Dash to fund followmyvote

Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blockhain?


  • Total voters
    13

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
After having a discussion here I discovered
https://followmyvote.com/

Follow My Vote aims to change the way we vote, becoming the world's first secure open-source online voting software based on blockchain technology.

Maybe they can help Dash in order all the voting that happens into Dash to be stored into the Dash blockchain.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
How much funding? Would they feature a "Sponsored by Dash" or some equivalent message on their site?
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Interesting idea, voted yes.

@demo typo in your poll: It's blockchain
The system does not allow me to change the subject of the poll (and this rule is correct of course).
Mea culpa!
I hope everybody understands that blochain=blockchain

<vote history>
Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blochain?
yes 2 vote(s) 66.7%
no 1 vote(s) 33.3%
other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
</vote history>
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
How much funding? Would they feature a "Sponsored by Dash" or some equivalent message on their site?
Why not? If this pre-proposal becomes a proposal and gets voted, then someone should contact them and do the negotiations.
 
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aleix

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Apr 4, 2014
144
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193
The system does not allow me to change the subject of the poll (and this rule is correct of course).
Mea culpa!
I hope everybody understands that blochain=blockchain
Edited
 
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Reactions: studioz

noobtrader

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
188
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103
is it mean that all voting that happen it that site are stored in Dash ? hmmm.... interesting, however i dont know if it will be a burden to our blockchain or even if it is possible ?
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
2,915
1,120
1,183
First we apply this to MNOs and we bring proper governance to dash. That is MNOs not MNs, because I want to know every individual MNO has an equal voice, regardless of how many MNs they own. This is particularly important regarding strategic direction. After a short period, once this process is proved, then we make this available to EVERY SINGLE DASH USER, because without their input, dash will invariably stray from their vision.

Secondly (and not a part of this proposal), dash needs an independent auditor whereby no modifications can be made to the official sources and binaries without express approval of MNOs. Crypto needs to be locked down and closer to being a hard asset.. not making fundamental material changes without end user input.

Of course, the current batch of forum readers here will mark my post as dumb or trolling because they are parasites with zero interest in what end users want. We need to rid dash of such corruption and properly utilise blockchain tech for one of it's big stand out examples, namely voting.
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
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The weird phrasing of the question leaves me unsure of what it's asking. But, @demo posted it, so my answer is potato.

Add Option #4: Potato to the poll so I can answer.
 

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
First we apply this to MNOs and we bring proper governance to dash. That is MNOs not MNs, because I want to know every individual MNO has an equal voice, regardless of how many MNs they own. This is particularly important regarding strategic direction.
I don't get what is wrong with having voting power proportional to the stake you hold. And I don't know how you would plan to implement a voting system that would distinguish the owners from the nodes.
 

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
is it mean that all voting that happen it that site are stored in Dash ? hmmm.... interesting, however i dont know if it will be a burden to our blockchain or even if it is possible ?
I think he means that important votes should be cast by dash holders, similarly to Bitcoinocracy (vote.bitcoin.com), using followmyvote technology. I think they use the bitshares blockchain for storing vote information.https://followmyvote.com/
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
2,915
1,120
1,183
I don't get what is wrong with having voting power proportional to the stake you hold. And I don't know how you would plan to implement a voting system that would distinguish the owners from the nodes.
Yes, proportional to stakes held if it is all dash and all people, but masternodes don't work that way. Say, for example, I have 50 MNs, I can accumulate a new MN every 10 weeks ( 1000 / (50 x 2 = 100 ). Yet for one MN it would take 500 weeks ( 1000 / (1 x 2) ). Given there is a maximum number of MNs possible, and given the value of the initial MNs are purchased with a different currency (say USD), then it doesn't seem very proportional or fair to the vast majority of the population. The system basically funnels down to just a few large stake holders.

There needs to be a separation between voting power (per unique person) and the dash earned through MNs. If you read the link that demo provided, it hints at how unique people are identified (via webcam)... certainly with a just a few hundred MNOs (at best), it seems highly achievable. We can attempt mass registration at a later date, but first we start small and try it with just MNOs.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
First we apply this to MNOs and we bring proper governance to dash. That is MNOs not MNs, because I want to know every individual MNO has an equal voice, regardless of how many MNs they own. This is particularly important regarding strategic direction. After a short period, once this process is proved, then we make this available to EVERY SINGLE DASH USER, because without their input, dash will invariably stray from their vision.

Secondly (and not a part of this proposal), dash needs an independent auditor whereby no modifications can be made to the official sources and binaries without express approval of MNOs. Crypto needs to be locked down and closer to being a hard asset.. not making fundamental material changes without end user input.

Of course, the current batch of forum readers here will mark my post as dumb or trolling because they are parasites with zero interest in what end users want. We need to rid dash of such corruption and properly utilise blockchain tech for one of it's big stand out examples, namely voting.
I rather agree with your approach, but lets first concentrate to put the whole voting system of Dash into the Dash blockchain. This is the question we address here. The rest steps you are mentioning, should be the subject of other polls that will follow this one, and that will depend on the result of this one (but lets not explain the dependant polls theory here, as it is somehow complicate)

So, in order not to confuse people, lets first concentrate to what I marked as bold in your message.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
I don't get what is wrong with having voting power proportional to the stake you hold. And I don't know how you would plan to implement a voting system that would distinguish the owners from the nodes.
Dont bother with this question here. This question should be the subject of another poll.
The decision here is whether (with the help of followmyvote) we shall put the existing budget system into the blockchain database.

<vote history>
Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blockhain?
yes 5 vote(s) 50.0%
no 5 vote(s) 50.0%
other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Potato to the poll so I can answer. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
</vote history>
 
Last edited:

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
Yes, proportional to stakes held if it is all dash and all people, but masternodes don't work that way. Say, for example, I have 50 MNs, I can accumulate a new MN every 10 weeks ( 1000 / (50 x 2 = 100 ). Yet for one MN it would take 500 weeks ( 1000 / (1 x 2) ). Given there is a maximum number of MNs possible, and given the value of the initial MNs are purchased with a different currency (say USD), then it doesn't seem very proportional or fair to the vast majority of the population. The system basically funnels down to just a few large stake holders.
Your assumption that the goal of all MN owners is acquiring yet another MN is false. Mined Dash can be used to buy stuff and can be converted to other currencies just as any fiat currency. Everything already is fair, in the present it makes no difference if I hold 10 dollars worth of dash or 10 dollars. The opportunity cost is the same, this "old money" vs "new money" talk is nonsensical.

There needs to be a separation between voting power (per unique person) and the dash earned through MNs. If you read the link that demo provided, it hints at how unique people are identified (via webcam)... certainly with a just a few hundred MNOs (at best), it seems highly achievable. We can attempt mass registration at a later date, but first we start small and try it with just MNOs.
Wow, so you really are attempting to turn a beautiful decentralized system of governance whose technology took years to conceive and build into a centralized voting scheme with a single point of failure? Why would I trust the entity that is identifying unique people?
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Wow, so you really are attempting to turn a beautiful decentralized system of governance whose technology took years to conceive and build into a centralized voting scheme with a single point of failure? Why would I trust the entity that is identifying unique people?
The below link is the decentralized solution @GrandMasterDash refers to.
http://proofofindividuality.tk/

So we are not talking about a centralized voting scheme.
We are talking about a decentralized voting scheme (blockchain) that it is initialized with a decentralized proof of individuality protocol.

How?
Through person-to-person verification. Users are grouped together by random in groups of 5 or so, and every group does a video hangout at the exact same time, that lasts around 10 minutes or so. Users check so that the others in their group aren't doing another hangout at the same time. They then sign each other's POIs and verify them. Once the hangouts are finished and all POIs have been verified, everyone will know that each POI represents a unique human being.
As long as all POI meetings happen and recorded the exact same time ( the exact time is proved with Decentralized timestamping on the Blockchain), you can even appear masked into the POI meeting.
 
Last edited:

qwizzie

Well-known Member
Aug 6, 2014
1,697
815
183
Interesting topic and interesting discussion.

Since Followmyvote is open-source we can also just peek into their software and see if we find
something usefull for Dash or maybe it can give us new ideas.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Interesting topic and interesting discussion.

Since Followmyvote is open-source we can also just peek into their software and see if we find
something usefull for Dash
or maybe it can give us new ideas.
Do you want I add this as a poll option?

<vote history>
Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blockhain?
* yes 5 vote(s) 45.5%
no 6 vote(s) 54.5%
other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Potato to the poll so I can answer. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
</vote history>
 

qwizzie

Well-known Member
Aug 6, 2014
1,697
815
183
Do you want I add this as a poll option?

<vote history>
Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blockhain?
* yes 5 vote(s) 45.5%
no 6 vote(s) 54.5%
other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Potato to the poll so I can answer. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
</vote history>
good idea.. thanks
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
2,915
1,120
1,183
Your assumption that the goal of all MN owners is acquiring yet another MN is false. Mined Dash can be used to buy stuff and can be converted to other currencies just as any fiat currency. Everything already is fair, in the present it makes no difference if I hold 10 dollars worth of dash or 10 dollars. The opportunity cost is the same, this "old money" vs "new money" talk is nonsensical
It's not an assumption, it's a demonstration of how the current Proof of Stake system works in dash. Eventually (soon?) all the MNs that could possibly exist will be reached (5000 something?) and then what? Those receiving a greater dividend could spend it elsewhere, or they could just buy out other nodes at a faster rate than others. It's just a math thing, it's got nothing to do with personal wishes.

Wow, so you really are attempting to turn a beautiful decentralized system of governance whose technology took years to conceive and build into a centralized voting scheme with a single point of failure? Why would I trust the entity that is identifying unique people?
Okay, you need to study the link demo provided before you start talking about centralisation. Compared to nearly everyone else here, you'll find I'm very committed to the ideas of decentralisation. If you want to complain about centralisation, ask about Evan's wishes for centralised "backup servers", or the offices, or the Google apps used, or the US legal team, the PR or compliance companies... or let's talk about sporks that were never voted on...[/QUOTE]
 

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
Interesting topic and interesting discussion.

Since Followmyvote is open-source we can also just peek into their software and see if we find
something usefull for Dash or maybe it can give us new ideas.
Actually, there is something useful. We could use it to anonymise votes so that a particular MN can't be linked with a particular vote.
 

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
It's not an assumption, it's a demonstration of how the current Proof of Stake system works in dash. Eventually (soon?) all the MNs that could possibly exist will be reached (5000 something?) and then what? Those receiving a greater dividend could spend it elsewhere, or they could just buy out other nodes at a faster rate than others. It's just a math thing, it's going nothing to do with personal wishes.
Anyone receiving dividends from anywhere (or any other income/savings) could buy dash and create masternodes at a faster rate than others.

Okay, you need to study the link demo provided before you start talking about centralisation. Compared to nearly everyone else here, you'll find I'm very committed to the ideas of decentralisation. If you want to complain about centralisation, ask about Evan's wishes for centralised "backup servers", or the offices, or the Google apps used, or the US legal team, the PR or compliance companies... or let's talk about sporks that were never voted on...
I did study the link, the followmyvote dude said the voter reveals his identity to an ID verifier in order to qualify for voting. Since you guys didn't mention http://proofofindividuality.tk/ anywhere prior to my post, I assumed it was a centralized solution. And I complain about core centralization ideas as well.

Dont bother with this question here. This question should be the subject of another poll.
The decision here is whether (with the help of followmyvote) we shall put the existing budget system into the blockchain database.
Actually, I think it is important, since it has become clear that you don't just want to record votes, you want to "fix" Dash's governance, by giving one vote per person regardless of stake. An army of idiots with 2 cents each could destroy Dash out of malice or stupidity.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Actually, I think it is important, since it has become clear that you don't just want to record votes, you want to "fix" Dash's governance, by giving one vote per person regardless of stake. An army of idiots with 2 cents each could destroy Dash out of malice or stupidity.
Read the question of the poll: "Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blockhain?"

Let me make it clear once again. This poll is NOT about vote actors. It is only about tranferring the (existing) budget voting system of Dash into the blockchain.

If you want to discuss whether the "one person-one vote" is a good practice or not, or if you want to discuss who may be the best suitable actor in order to vote for Dash, or you want to discuss any other aspect of the new term "programmable governance" (term coined by @jarroyo), please do it here.

An army of idiots with 2 cents each could destroy Dash out of malice or stupidity.
This is your personal belief, but you have no proof of your claims. What you claim can be proved only in the case all the votes of all the actors are recorded. So please stop believing, and start knowing.

<vote history>
Would you like Dash to fund followmyvote in order they put all the votes of Dash into the blockhain?
* yes 5 vote(s) 41.7%
no 6 vote(s) 50.0%
other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Potato to the poll so I can answer. 0 vote(s) 0.0%
just peek into their software and see if we find something usefull for Dash 1 vote(s) 8.3%
</vote history>
 
Last edited:

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
If all masternodes always agree on voting counts I don't see the point of adding them to the blockchain.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
If all masternodes always agree on voting counts I don't see the point of adding them to the blockchain.
The whimsical world of unanimity....:rolleyes: Please stop dreaming and come to reality. There is no unanimity. There has never been and never will be (in this world).

What if the majority (50%+1) of the masternodes decide to delete the votes of one single masternode? They can do this as long as the votes are simply recorded into an rdbms database. How can a single masternode protect his voting rights, if his vote is not (in an immutable way) recorded into the blockchain?

The (immutable) blockchain is suitable in order to protect the voting rights of the minorities.
 
Last edited:

lynx

Active Member
Dec 11, 2015
364
250
133
Anyone can verify if all votes are accounted for, it would be trivial to prove if a vote is omitted. I bet MNs have been pretty unanimous so far...
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
2,915
1,120
1,183
Anyone receiving dividends from anywhere (or any other income/savings) could buy dash and create masternodes at a faster rate than others..
Yes indeed, but that's an external factor that would always exist. Must we consider a USD -> Dash purchase to prove entitlement to a fair vote in dash? - so now the power to vote is not based on dash but based on a "useless" fiat currency that just happens to buy someone a commanding stake? Must we grant power to be President only to those with money? - or those elected by the people?

You see, I think maybe there is a separation between dividend entitlement (more money in = more dividend out) and the power to vote where the intended audience is meant to be universal, for everyone.

I'm definitely not being all socialist about this but I am convinced that the only way to be successful in crypto is by being relevant.. and ultimately that means everyone who uses it must feel they are a part of a fair process.

Anyway, at least we agree in decentralisation.