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Pre-proposal: DASH mining on green agenda + extra profit

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by Hiand, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    Since 2016 we are working on ecology friendly mining+ concept. Plus - means extra benefits we deliver to globe, PoW network and society.



    Our mission is based on as below:
    1. Sustainability - physical mining hardware decentralization
    2. Green mining - utilization heat waste of PoW for added value
    3. Extra profit on mining - we plan to lease cryptohouses
    4. Social impact - cryptohouse will pay mortgage for you
    Recently launched $173K ICO in order to build up our show-room of cryptohouses. Right now we upgrade 3 x D3 for boiler. There is a strong opportunity to make it fly as DASH positive image project. Lets make hype on hotDASH which heats houses, not globe.

    With community support we are ready for roadshow from East to West of Russia, with events and meetups in main cities.

    Check it out for more details - Imagine8.solutions
     
    #1 Hiand, Apr 27, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  2. Arthyron

    Arthyron Active Member
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    Very interesting, I'm afraid I don't speak Russian, but from what I gather, you're using a liquid cooling system which in turn powers a thermal radiator to discharge it to heat spaces in a more targeted way. That seems like a much more practical and useful way of implementing PoW systems. Are you planning on making a proposal to the Dash DAO or just announcing your product here?
     
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  3. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    Cool! First responce in my thread! Thank you Arthyron, you did my day ))
    Your guess is correct, we are working with liquid cooling systmes and there are at least 3 different technologies we consider. There is video with Spanish CC, presenting our concept.


    I am planning to make a proposal for community and ask for support with 567 DASH for my pilot project of 4 cryptohouses show-room. We have 10 private houses on going, but need availabile solution for test-drive for our prospect clients, as well as Airbnb visitors. We will ebstablish second center of profit above mining as a house lease, so it could be cool and longplay info case with Airbnb involved, that there are houses avaialble for rent overnight with payment in DASH.

    Could it fly?
     
    #3 Hiand, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  4. Arthyron

    Arthyron Active Member
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    @Hiand , funding requests of that size generally only pass if they demonstrate a large benefit to the Dash network as a whole. The DAO would want to see some return on the investment, some way that your project would bring value back to Dash, and currently I'm not able to ascertain where that value to Dash comes from in your project for now. If you can find a way to either reduce your costs or increase the benefit to the network, you might see more interest in your project. So for example, if you rented out these houses as an AirBNB, maybe the renters would pay in Dash. Maybe if you scale up to a production model of your technology and start to sell kits to cryptocurrency miners they could only purchase your kits in Dash, etc. These are the kinds of things that Masternode Owners are more likely to fund, things that enrich the whole network.

    It's a very interesting technology and may have a much more important use later in Dash development, however. The Dash founder Evan Duffield has talked about future plans to increase the hardware requirements for Dash Masternodes and potentially collateralized mining, so this technology could be applied in the future to help Dash miners and Masternode Owners cut costs. Evan has founded Dash Labs to study and create solutions for the future of the network, but is currently difficult to contact. However, if he becomes more present in the community again in the future, this technology might be of interest to Dash Labs.

    By the way, most of the participants in the community speak English, so I would recommend that you lead with this video: http://demo.zoomin.tv/previewplayer/?v=813379 That was very easily understood.
     
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  5. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    @Arthyron thank you for challenging me, with an opportunity to bring up strengths. I like your idea to sale heating kits, exactly for that reason we need to test it in the field first. There a few obvious large benefits to the DASH network behind my proposal.
    1. It never been such an opportunity before, to shift DASH from optional to essential. Here we have advantages of $0.016 kWh for private household rate and 9 monthes of heating season. There are 280 000 private households in Irkutsk region, what we can assume 5% as our target group. Each house has minimum 15kW by law, so we can consider 5kW for heating needs. Thus, there are 70MW available from 14 000 houses to host cryptoboilers. Recently I've got in touch with man from South Korea, who has 400 shouted down D3 in stock, due to $0.08 kWh. I think we will see migration of D3 miners upgraded to boilers soon.
    2. The bigger idea what I keep in mind is to build UBER like platform, where D3 owners, met with $0.016 kWh householders. I think this should be on high priority for DAO, to help out their miners, who is suffering from high cost.
    3. Have we cover with DASH heating 14 000 houses, this is at least 28 000 end users with DASH wallets. From house PoW heating approach, they will learn crypto and start use it. Actualy, you have no other chance to convert these people in your religion, due to low population density and far distance to those locations. But once you catch them, they spreed news as a virus. Many of them are located in remote areas, what makes on-line shoping the only choice with marketplaces, like Amazon, AliExpress, etc. This is another key account audience, who will follow DASH availability trend from their clients.
    4. Decentralization - DASH is famous for that. May we check with DASH Labs is here any advantages for maximum of network sustainability with 14 000 houses with miners, instead of 10 MEGA crypto farms, provide.
    5. Media case - DASH always be in background in centralized news related to green mining and positive social impact. You also will have an army of people sharing knowledge and positive experience in social networks, as well as p2p payments.
    6. All investments in my project is a subject of return. All bakers will get connected to miners versus boilers and share income from houses rent out. I wonder have DAO other cases like this before, when at zero cost literaly there is such deep penetration to the new market, connected to help community members with D3 dead in stock?
    How to get in touch with Evan Duffield?

    P.S. Here we are with English version.
     
    #5 Hiand, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  6. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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    Adoption is the priority for the moment. Such an ask is unlikely to find support.

    You should contact core to see if they find this useful before putting the proposal.
     
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  7. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    @Argon31 Please, navigate to core. How do I get there and whom to ask in person?
     
  8. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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  9. Antti Kaikkonen

    Antti Kaikkonen Active Member

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    I don't believe that Dash should fund this. The budget is very small compared to the demand and this proposal is very expensive. I also think that if the boilers make economical sense then the project should be able to self fund or get funding from investors.
     
  10. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    @Antti Kaikkonen is here a matter of faith, or the logic still have a chance? You are correct, to say that the budget is very small, but in connection with the pilot project only. Expensieve or not, we may judge when compare with alternatives. So far, the most expencive what I've seen, this is sponsorship for events, when you call people to explain new things, but catch a few from hundreds. Investments in such events are one way ticket. If you never return it that is expensive. The project is reasonable, if it has a payback, due to mining + house rent out. Beside economical sence, it should be awareness. Self funding is possible, when bank understands our cashflow. In fact they do not operate with the category of mining, at least in this part of the world. We are open for everybody and DAO Dash is a priority investor, due to the natural understanding of what is PoW mining and critical importance of eco-friednly image for public relations. There is a strong WIN-WIN marketing case in all of aspects.
     
    #10 Hiand, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  11. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    Do you believe that DASH should positioning itself as a green mining?
     
  12. Antti Kaikkonen

    Antti Kaikkonen Active Member

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    I like the concept of using miners to warm your house/water or using them to grow food. That is something I would probably do myself if I lived in a big house. But right now Dash needs adoption and I don't see how this can help with adoption in a significant way.

    I believe that as mining becomes more competitive, "green" mining will increase by itself because it will be more economical to mine when you can use the generated heat to warm your house or to grow food etc.
     
  13. Arthyron

    Arthyron Active Member
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    @Hiand -- 1. Yes, I agree it makes perfect sense that if you're going to be heating your house, why not generate extra income, and if you're going to generate extra income through mining, why not heat your house? The issue here is that this applies to *any* cryptocurrency mining, and doesn't benefit Dash exclusively, yet Dash in particular is being asked to fund it. Now, of course you want your model homes to be Dash exclusive, but our network is already flooded with ASICs and mining Dash isn't particularly profitable, so we don't really *need* to have additional mining sources, especially ones that could just go mine other coins. It's not a good business proposition for Dash even though it's a very useful technology in general.

    2. This uber-like platform, is this for miners to sell their D3s to homeowners who want to heat their homes this way, or to rent them?

    3. Ok, so the plan is to market this to a particular population in a particular region first, makes sense. If they're just using particular ASICs, then they'd have to stick within cryptocurrencies that use our algorithms, makes sense. So then the question is, why do we need to fund multiple model homes when we only need one or two to demonstrate the proof of concept to potential customers?

    4. Sure, having these systems spread out to individuals is better than centralized mining companies or pools. I still think this would probably be a more advantageous solution in the future when the Masternodes require custom hardware as Evan discusses here: , but yes, this argument does work in your favor.

    5. Yes, making it more green is good publicity, certainly.

    6. So you propose to share the income of sales, the energy produced, the cryptocurrency mined, or some combination thereof? Who is sharing these outputs of your system? If you intended to share some of these profits back to the network, then that might work in your favor.

    Evan is notoriously difficult to contact, but you can try to message him here on the forum: https://www.dash.org/forum/members/eduffield.104/

    Basically, the difficulty here is that while there seems to be a legitimate benefit to Dash in the long run from your project, it's going to be difficult to convince the Masternode Owners that paying the substantial upfront cost to get your business off the ground is going to be worthwhile. If you already had the kits ready, for example, and just needed funding to bring them to production and were going to share some of the profits in your company as equity or something like that, I think MNOs would be much more interested in supporting it, but in order to receive funding, I think you'd either have to substantially reduce how much funding you're asking for or find some way to increase the more immediate benefit to the Dash network or both.
     
  14. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    @Arthyron Yes, I know that Dash mining is unprofitable. In combination with PoW waste utilization for added value, the only chance to keep D3 running. You are correct, that there is no exclusivity in technology, but to lead on this trend as #1 is still available. Why not it will be Dash?

    re: 2) UBER like platform - where demand for $0.016 kWh meets with supply. Homeowners register avaialbility of kW, miners book for hosting, 3rd service party is taking care for instalation and service. To sale D3 cryptoboilers is an option there too.
    re: 3) We are talking about efficiency of second center of profit on show-room from rent out. It's more reasonable to share service cost among 4 houses, than 1 or 2 due to bigger trafic. We can lease for Dash, what make sence for adoption.
    re: 4) There is ICO model, when token holders take share in hashrate and income from renting out for Dash.
    re: 6) We have house kits and MVP tested for year, so we just need funding to set 4 houses shoow-room pilot and make ot avaialble for prospect clients. This is not something you can reduce, only number of house, but its no sence as I've mentioned in re: 3)
     
  15. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    @Antti Kaikkonen regarding adoption I've mentioned at the very top, that from optional (a one of many) you can be essential crypto (the first and only one), if you stick on it via earning on heating your home. People, in cold and remote areas in Siberia are more depended on on-line shoping today, so there is obvious short-cut to adoption. For green mining we share same feelings, as well as others. Its naturaly will come in 5 years. The question is how Dash can benefit from this obvious trend and which miner, people will have as a boiler - BTC, ETH, Dash, etc. There is no room in house for second boiler, so this is opportunity for expanding of adoption and keep your network 100% decentrilized in hardware. Copy of Cointed_imagine8.jpg
     
  16. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    20180811_120854.jpg It was very productive pitch in Istambul on 11th of August.
     
    #16 Hiand, Sep 1, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
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  17. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    It was a while to play around with project of cryptohouse, but probably next idea could be more resultive.
    @Arthyron , @Argon31 what do you think guys on my next try?

     
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  18. Arthyron

    Arthyron Active Member
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    Very interesting technology. I think that NFC payments are going to become increasingly popular over the next few years. Could you tell us more about how this wallet functions, what its limitations are (e.g. which currencies it works with, battery life, security features, etc). I noticed there was a QR code on the display (is that e-ink or lcd?), what is its purpose in an NFC wallet?
     
  19. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    It is BTC, but possible to develop for DASH.

    We need $100K to finish prototype.

    All of answers, please, find as below:

    www.bkey.tech
     
  20. Arthyron

    Arthyron Active Member
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    @Hiand - Very interesting. Have you given any thought to security measures and risk associated with NFC devices (i.e. thieves walking around with NFC readers ,etc)? Do transactions have to be confirmed, and if so, is there some sort of button or is the e-ink display touch screen? What would you expect that the average market price for one of these wallets would be when it reaches full production?
     
  21. Hiand

    Hiand New Member

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    Security of NFC is the key point, that is why they use it widely in traditional banking cards. Readers are not enough here, due to there is know-how algorithm of transaction confirmation. There is kind of variable PIN confirmation, what card holder validate on third party smartphone, after transaction QR scanning.

    In fact we do not rely on NFC security features much, due to it is just easy user friendly connection protocol.

    Steps of transaction procces are as below:
    1. Merchant issue invoice in app on smartphone.
    2. From smartphone the sum of the invoice is transmitted to the card via NFC.
    3. Screen of the card indicates balance, QR and sum of invoice.
    4. If card holder approves the sum of invoice, he provides QR for merchant to scan.
    5. Card holder validate transaction on smartphone with PIN.
    The market price will depend on other hard wallets marketing, but we target as much as $100.
     
    #21 Hiand, Sep 17, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018 at 3:52 AM
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