Peter Todd: The Ethereum DAO Bailout Needs A Coin Vote

Pal

New Member
Jun 23, 2016
17
8
3
Sounds like one of the biggest fans of our "snake oil" is advocating something strikingly similar to our DGBB for The DAO:

https://petertodd.org/2016/ethereum-dao-bailout-vote

He is indirectly validating our direction while publicly mocking us. Good times. Thanks, Peter! :p
What is "snake oil", the DGBB? I know the DAO is that ETH thingy but this whole post makes my head hurt!


:confused:
edit:
I though ETH was dying?/
 
  • Like
Reactions: TaoOfSatoshi

TaoOfSatoshi

Grizzled Member
Jul 15, 2014
2,840
2,647
1,183
Dash Nation
www.dashnation.com

Pal

New Member
Jun 23, 2016
17
8
3
No problem. Peter Todd referred to Dash as "snake oil" and it's community as a "cargo cult".

https://m.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/3dpmah/peter_todd_calls_dash_snake_oil/

DGBB: Decentralized Governance by Blockchain, the official title of the budget system.
Thanks for that information! I am less confused now!

Why is it called something so wretched? DGBB? Why not something more easier to understand?

And I never really liked the peter guy anyways, I think I saw hi once on RT or something though...

:rolleyes:
 

Voluntary

Member
May 14, 2016
109
37
78
Dash Address
XivwUmSu5davqhqc3BX1j4w6dskzNFihQQ
Are there any bitcoin devs that are openly 'disloyal'? But that comment does seem petty - I wouldn't have expected it from him... btw I met him briefly at Anarchapulco 2015 - somehow we didn't get onto alt-coins... ;)

But who does he think we're aping to no effect? I wonder if he'd be willing to get into that on a Dash - Digital Cash interview...
 
Last edited:

Pal

New Member
Jun 23, 2016
17
8
3

Miner237

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
May 28, 2014
516
226
213
Sounds like one of the biggest fans of our "snake oil" is advocating something strikingly similar to our DGBB for The DAO:

https://petertodd.org/2016/ethereum-dao-bailout-vote

He is indirectly validating our direction while publicly mocking us. Good times. Thanks, Peter! :p
Ether is centralized in mining like bitcoin much like DASH could become. What can we do now to limit centralized mining and for masternode hosting.
 
Last edited:

halso

Active Member
Apr 27, 2016
439
235
113
Sydney, Australia
Ether is centralized in mining like bitcoin much like DASH is becoming. What can we do now to limit centralized mining and for masternode hosting.
I think i remember evan talking about how in the future miners will have to form some sort of contract with MNs. To avoid centralisation. I'm not exactly sure of the details. I think it was only mentioned in passing.
 

Voluntary

Member
May 14, 2016
109
37
78
Dash Address
XivwUmSu5davqhqc3BX1j4w6dskzNFihQQ
The fact that X11 was supposed to be ASIC resistant, and therefore more accessible to individual miners with off-the-shelf mining rigs, but turned out not to be shows that X11 should be reassessed. Potentially, it would only take a minor tweak to one algorithm to break the hold ASICs have on the Dash mining market and return it to a more level playing field. If, after that point, the ASIC manufacturers weren't savvy enough to stay out this market, Dash could simply commit to a series of such PoW changes done on a scheduled basis. Or perhaps just switch to something entirely new like Equihash. https://z.cash/blog/why-equihash.html
 

fible1

Well-known Member
Dash Core Team
Masternode Owner/Operator
May 11, 2014
710
722
163
The fact that X11 was supposed to be ASIC resistant, and therefore more accessible to individual miners with off-the-shelf mining rigs, but turned out not to be shows that X11 should be reassessed. Potentially, it would only take a minor tweak to one algorithm to break the hold ASICs have on the Dash mining market and return it to a more level playing field. If, after that point, the ASIC manufacturers weren't savvy enough to stay out this market, Dash could simply commit to a series of such PoW changes done on a scheduled basis. Or perhaps just switch to something entirely new like Equihash. https://z.cash/blog/why-equihash.html
I feel like its a good long term goal for a coin to rely on ASIC's. Because of the higher costs of entry, these professional miners can provide better support for the network with better gear and bandwidth than the average user running a miner on a 5 year old computer and a home line. It seems like a good goal to stat out with individual miners, but I don't fully understand why some people are so anti-ASIC.

Pablo.
 

rustycase

Active Member
Apr 19, 2016
495
116
113
IMO, (Newbie opinion, that is), there is a strong probability large scale mining will be conducted closest to the source of the electronics required, closely coupled with utility costs to the miner.
Pretty EZ to determine where that shall be, if the algorythm is susceptible to ASIC mining, wouldn't you say ?
Best
rc
 

Voluntary

Member
May 14, 2016
109
37
78
Dash Address
XivwUmSu5davqhqc3BX1j4w6dskzNFihQQ
Aside from the centralisation issue, ASICs are an additional barrier to entry - and not at all easy to acquire in certain parts of the world.
 

fible1

Well-known Member
Dash Core Team
Masternode Owner/Operator
May 11, 2014
710
722
163
I see the high cost of ASIC's as a good thing, it ensures a professionalization of mining infrastructure, and a higher quality network. I concede centralization is an issue, but if push comes to shove there are ways to code around this.

Again, perhaps I'm not grasping your point too well, but to me, a higher quality network is worth me not being able to mine on my old desktop. There is no reason for users to think they are entitled to be able to mine on regular hardware at the expense of a more reliable and higher quality infrastructure. And even if mining were democratic (which I think is impossible long term), then those who have access to cheaper GPU's, or those who have access to cheaper electricity, etc. will have an edge, where do you draw the line?

Crypto mining is undergoing a process of commodification, and that is a good thing for the network.

:)

Pablo.
 

fible1

Well-known Member
Dash Core Team
Masternode Owner/Operator
May 11, 2014
710
722
163
Oh, I forgot: I've been here since around April 2014; I recall a chart stating that ASIC's were part of our growth cycle. It was not expected that X11 would be ASIC resistant forever, and this was viewed as a good thing. I'll see if I bookmarked it somewhere.

Pablo.
 

Miner237

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
May 28, 2014
516
226
213
I can't agree with that one.

View attachment 2515

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/#!extraction

Comparing to constant ~50% of coinmine.pl that we had in GPU-mining era I think it's much better distributed now.
I haven't kept up since the dawn of ASIC this year for X11. I retract my statement for now it looks DASH miners are spread out enough but still 5 pools are almost 75% we cant ensure it stays this way, if value goes up some big data center could singly become 25% Will evolution make it so the miners are not responsible for block competition / winning but just block creators of what the MN network has locked? It's bad that large pools are being asked block transactions. Isn't part of the block chain and decentralized crypto so that you are in control of your funds seems a few bad actors in ETH network could setup blocking f your funds pretty easily....
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
The fact that X11 was supposed to be ASIC resistant, and therefore more accessible to individual miners with off-the-shelf mining rigs, but turned out not to be shows that X11 should be reassessed.
Education is what needs to be re-assessed.

LTC already prove this when it fraudulently touted scrypt as being ASIC-proof.

Any static algorithm is, in fact, suited to ASIC better than anything else. It's a static algorithm! Duh!

The more complex you make it,the slower it goes on CPU/GPU, but, duh, this is exactly what ASICs do best! It's not only "not ASIC-resistant" it's ASIC specific!

Application Specific Integrated Circuit. A.S.I.C. Hashing algorithms are nothing more than very complicated Specific Applications, to which an ASIC is really the only answer... It's not just possible, is inevitable, and the best possible choice...

The fancier you get, the more suited to an ASIC it becomes. The only thing that determines if an ASIC is created for it, is if the coin in question is worth the investment.

The fact that someone needs to explain that is sad.

Now, using other network metrics that exist in Proof of Service, to completely eliminate the electron waste that is mining... That's something worth talking about. Stack the votes into Proof of Service by adding an "abstain" option, and you've got spectacular entropy...

If anyone ever claims that their hashing algorithm is "ASIC-resistant" that person is a fucking liar and you should kick them in the nuts until they bleed out their ears.
 
Last edited:

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
No problem. Peter Todd referred to Dash as "snake oil" and it's community as a "cargo cult".

https://m.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/3dpmah/peter_todd_calls_dash_snake_oil/

DGBB: Decentralized Governance by Blockchain, the official title of the budget system.
Lols! There are plenty of real things to criticize in DASH. The fact that he would resort to mindless name-calling means he's really mad, and isn't even paying attention...

He could have called-out any one of at least a dozen issues and made a legitimate point instead...

But, at least he got kinda close with his observations of the community being retarded...
 

Super8

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
295
152
103
Hey Camosoul,

I do generally enjoy reading your posts, and it is great to have forthright opinions and views expressed that may differ radically from those of others. There is often wisdom in what you say. But the above post is starting to get nasty and spiteful. If you are feeling bitter because you've been dissed and you think it better to sit it out from the sidelines, then that's one thing. But please don't undermine the value of the Dash for other people here (and presumably yourself as a major investor?) with such deliberate negativity. Thank you.
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
Hey Camosoul,

I do generally enjoy reading your posts, and it is great to have forthright opinions and views expressed that may differ radically from those of others. There is often wisdom in what you say. But the above post is starting to get nasty and spiteful. If you are feeling bitter because you've been dissed and you think it better to sit it out from the sidelines, then that's one thing. But please don't undermine the value of the Dash for other people here (and presumably yourself as a major investor?) with such deliberate negativity. Thank you.
Everyone who doesn't like reality gets mad when it comes their way.

Which post is that, anyway?

The one where I pointed out that not only is there no such thing as an ASIC-resistant algo, any algo is going to be ASIC-specific by it's very definition and nature?

Or the one where I called-out some bitcoin fanboy for being a loser troll?

Bitter? Where?

I see stupid. I kick it in the nuts. Pretty simple MO. Don't try to make it into something it's not just because I touched on something you're emotionally invested in to the point that you can't handle it.

If it's that last sentence you got hung up on.. I've been calling cryptotards out since before Evan knew what Bitcoin was... That's the least new thing I've posted, so the "bitter" theory isn't even close...

The overwhelming majority of people involved in crypto are mindless cryptotards. Troll/Hype. Pump/Dump. That's all they know. Initially, DASH wasn't like that, but it has become no different through inaction. Nobody bothers to capitalize on what DASH's feature set would allow it to do. I tried and look where it got me! Bitter? No. Just sad to see it squandered, and nobody even seems to notice that it's happening. It's like not noticing that your hair is on fire, then being told that I'm the crazy one for pointing it out...

If there's any bitterness, it's the mild taste of vomit that I get when I wonder if I bet on a dead horse...

A year of doing absolutely nothing with the ultimate crypto killer feature set... And I'm the one who has something wrong with him because I noticed it? Lols!

I know, I'm not being a proper DASH fanboy. I believed in it a year ago. I still believe in the idea. Just not the people. They don't even notice that their hair is on fire... You can't let killer features rot on the vine for a year because you think you're above competition. This is crypto. There is always someone gunning for you.

If Peter Todd wanted to take a shot at DASH, that would have been it...

They won't learn until it's too late...
 
Last edited:

Super8

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
295
152
103
Everyone who doesn't like reality gets mad when it comes their way.

Which post is that, anyway?

The one where I pointed out that not only is there no such thing as an ASIC-resistant algo, any algo is going to be ASIC-specific by it's very definition and nature?

Or the one where I called-out some bitcoin fanboy for being a loser troll?

Bitter? Where?

I see stupid. I kick it in the nuts. Pretty simple MO. Don't try to make it into something it's not just because I touched on something you're emotionally invested in to the point that you can't handle it.

If it's that last sentence you got hung up on.. I've been calling cryptotards out since before Evan knew what Bitcoin was... That's the least new thing I've posted, so the "bitter" theory isn't even close...

The overwhelming majority of people involved in crypto are mindless cryptotards. Troll/Hype. Pump/Dump. That's all they know. Initially, DASH wasn't like that, but it has become no different through inaction. Nobody bothers to capitalize on what DASH's feature set would allow it to do. I tried and look where it got me! Bitter? No. Just sad to see it squandered, and nobody even seems to notice that it's happening. It's like not noticing that your hair is on fire, then being told that I'm the crazy one for pointing it out...

If there's any bitterness, it's the mild taste of vomit that I get when I wonder if I bet on a dead horse...

A year of doing absolutely nothing with the ultimate crypto killer feature set... And I'm the one who has something wrong with him because I noticed it? Lols!

I know, I'm not being a proper DASH fanboy. I believed in it a year ago. I still believe in the idea. Just not the people. They don't even notice that their hair is on fire... You can't let killer features rot on the vine for a year because you think you're above competition. This is crypto. There is always someone gunning for you.

If Peter Todd wanted to take a shot at DASH, that would have been it...

They won't learn until it's too late...
I just thought that calling the community retarded was a bit harsh. Like it or not Camosoul, you too are part of this community. You're using this thread to say things like 'betting on a dead horse" so continuing this conversation is like feeding a troll. Thanks for your time and response, but I shall now decline to communicate on this matter any further. Kind regards, Super8.
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
You don't have to like it for it to be true. I don't like it, either. But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand, or reject it because "it's mean and I'm offended! So hrumph! I'll take my ball and go home!"

I hate saying what I said. But it's true, and denial won't fix it.

I generally don't give a damn about the price. DASH is supposed to be about endless innovation, and solving problems. But, when you squat on that innovation for a year and do absolutely nothing with it... We're starting to see the effect of letting innovation rot on the vine.

We see dev proposals coming up that say "2016 is the year that we finally take this shit seriously." But where were these comments in January? Isn't that when 2016 started? If this was really the plan all along, why wasn't it the plan before now? How is 2016 suddenly "the year" when it wasn't even mentioned until that year was half gone?

Backpedaling. Trying to make it look like this was always the plan, when the truth is that nobody even thought about it until I made a stink.

If that's not retarded, what is it? I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing more.

There are competitors on the scene that are ahead in the game, who didn't even exist in January... If you create the killer feature set, you can't just let it rot on vine...

If you wait for someone else to do it for you; THEY WILL. But they'll leave out the "for you" part.

"The community" needs to stop being a bunch of lazy retards.
 
Last edited:

Voluntary

Member
May 14, 2016
109
37
78
Dash Address
XivwUmSu5davqhqc3BX1j4w6dskzNFihQQ
Education is what needs to be re-assessed.

LTC already prove this when it fraudulently touted scrypt as being ASIC-proof.

Any static algorithm is, in fact, suited to ASIC better than anything else. It's a static algorithm! Duh!

Etc..
The point of an ASIC is to carry out a particular task more efficiently, in terms of time and / or power, than alternate methods. Equihash has been designed to make memory bandwidth the primary efficiency factor. This does not preclude an ASIC solution for Equihash but, in order to offer an advantage over CPU or GPU solutions, it would have to employ faster memory and / or multiple memory channels to sufficient amounts of memory for the data set.

Where ASICs particularly lose against CPU solutions is the prohibitive development time required for designing, testing and producing chips and circuit boards compared to simply writing and maintaining a program.

Some of the parameters of Equihash are like a moving target (much like a bitcoin blocksize increase would be for certain SHA256 ASICs) and, in that respect, quite unfriendly to specific hardware solutions. Moving away from particular Proof of Work algorithms as being 'set in stone' would also be quite unfriendly to ASIC solutions.

So there. No nut-kicking required.