Paying merchants to accept Dash

How much should we pay for each merchant accepting and advertising DASH?

  • 0 (we should not do it now)

  • 1$

  • 10$

  • 100$

  • 1000$


Results are only viewable after voting.
Apr 24, 2017
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pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
I keep seeing all sorts of crazy proposals about Dash, but I miss the most obvious and simple one: pay x dollars in dash to each merchant that for 1 year accepts dash in their shop. And I am speaking here about real world shops, restaurants, places on the high street, taxi and so on. To obtain the money the shop keeper needs to advertise it on their window; download the app and learn how to use it. And then some of us can go and check if they really accept dash by going there and asking to pay with dash.

I think if we start paying 100$ per shop it is not enough to be a problem for the dash community (we have too much money, not too less) while providing a good incentive. I know several shop that would absolutely accept the money and start doing it.

I know some people say that we should wait for the Evolution system, but I am afraid that we lose time. It will be easier after to upgrade merchants from one system to the other.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
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@Pietro Speroni , definitely would like to see that.

Some months ago I proposed the same thing saying that we could use leftover from the budget to fund (as we always have some - not to say a lot) such scheme on the long run. I was surprised to see many people disagreeing with it. But it was only on this forum, so it's no relevant of all the network way of thinking. Maybe things have changed since then, let see !
 

UdjinM6

Official Dash Dev
Core Developer
Dash Core Group
May 20, 2014
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I think this is quite reasonable. I'm not sure about the exact cost, someone should do the math (operational cost, teaching personal, cover discount for paying in Dash etc) and make a pre-proposal - that would be interesting to see.

PS. That's one of these proposals that require some DAO around them, no way to manage every single shop via Treasury ;)
 
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Dashmaximalist

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Mar 16, 2017
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I keep seeing all sorts of crazy proposals about Dash, but I miss the most obvious and simple one: pay x dollars in dash to each merchant that for 1 year accepts dash in their shop. And I am speaking here about real world shops, restaurants, places on the high street, taxi and so on. To obtain the money the shop keeper needs to advertise it on their window; download the app and learn how to use it. And then some of us can go and check if they really accept dash by going there and asking to pay with dash.

I think if we start paying 100$ per shop it is not enough to be a problem for the dash community (we have too much money, not too less) while providing a good incentive. I know several shop that would absolutely accept the money and start doing it.

I know some people say that we should wait for the Evolution system, but I am afraid that we lose time. It will be easier after to upgrade merchants from one system to the other.
hi @Pietro Speroni as much as i like your determination to make dash go viral , here's the real problem. Paying businesses to show pay with dash icon doesn't solve the real big problem we have. The 'USERS'

Unless we have convinced users to open a wallet and get some dash , have even 90% merchants accepting dash is useless , business exist to serve customers ,if customers are ready to pay in dash , businesses will gladly accept dash. so we should spend all our money and effort in bringing as many customers to start using dash , businesses will follow very soon.

Check my sms otp based marketing effort, if you have some similar ideas for getting users en masse, lets discuss
 
Last edited:

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
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hi @Pietro Speroni as much as i like your determination to make dash go real viral , here's the real problem. Paying businesses to show pay with dash icon doesn't solve the real big problem we have. The 'USERS'

Unless we have convinced users to open a wallet and get some dash , have even 90% merchants accepting dash is useless , business exist to serve customers ,if customers are ready to pay in dash , businesses will gladly accept dash. so we should spend all our money and effort in bringing as many customers to start using dash , businesses will follow very soon.

Check my sms otp based marketing effort, if you want to something similar for getting users enmasse, lets discuss
It's chicken and egg problem so it's good that everybody is working on each end !

If you have 90 % merchants accepting dash, you will see how easy it is to convince people to buy and use it !
 
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Dashmaximalist

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Mar 16, 2017
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It's chicken and egg problem so it's good that everybody is working on each end !

If you have 90 % merchants accepting dash, you will see how easy it is to convince people to buy and use it !
Fair enough , we should put 90% of our money on getting customers and 10% on getting merchants , not the other way around. Right now as you know , most proposals are focusing a lot on merchants and their integration and their software , instead of getting more customers
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
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if you have to bribe people to use your product you're doing it wrong.
Not bribing.

Dash's product is good. But in order for its features to be beneficial to its users and merchants, it needs a big network. Without it, Dash's product is not good (nor is any other project's product). Why should we wait on the generosity of merchants to accept Dash ? That's not what we do, because we know that this is not a sustainable way of seeing things. People need to be incentivized to use Dash. When many businesses accept Dash, every business will be incentivized to accept it. But up to that point, they are not. A business owner know that he won't get one sale and even if he does, it will barely cover the cost it took to implement it. So why would he accept Dash ? Why would he bear the cost of implementing Dash right now when we don't give him anything back (no customer, no sale) ?

It's not about the product it's about the lack of network. That solution resolves the networking problem.
 

Vedran Yoweri

Active Member
Apr 29, 2015
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Not bribing.
the reason you do something doesn't define what you are doing.

how about creating a product that's so good people want it?
dash needs time to build it's products, don't go ducking around playing the unrealistic crypto idiot, it doesn't help dash.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
395
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the reason you do something doesn't define what you are doing.
agreed. Here, the "doing" is giving money. You are the one defining what that action is, not me.

Besides, "bribing" : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct.

Here it is an exchange of services. It's a contract between two parties. Like advertisement if you will. "You put a log on your door, we give you money".

how about creating a product that's so good people want it?
That's what we do. And if I am not mistaken, that's what PayPal did which did not prevent them from giving 10 $ for subscribers.

don't go ducking around playing the unrealistic crypto idiot, it doesn't help dash
Thank you for that demonstration, you really convinced me here ;)
 
Apr 24, 2017
132
30
78
51
Italy
pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
Fair enough , we should put 90% of our money on getting customers and 10% on getting merchants , not the other way around. Right now as you know , most proposals are focusing a lot on merchants and their integration and their software , instead of getting more customers
I am not seeing any work on merchant. Can you please point me on that?
Said that I don't particularly care if it is 90/10, 50/50, 10/90. As long as both sides are being activated. We had a very successful campaign that would pay 10 dollars for each person installing a dash wallet. That's great. We need the same thing for merchants. But a single merchant that displays the DASH symbol on a busy street and agreeing to accept dash is much more valuable than a random person installing the dash wallet. I have a dash wallet in my phone. It has exactly 0 dash inside, as it is a risk to keep it there with no reward, as I have never seen a shop that accepts dash (in Rome, or Italy, or London...), so why should I move Dash there? We need merchants to accept dash and say they do, before even people that have dash will start keeping some in their pocket money.
 
Apr 24, 2017
132
30
78
51
Italy
pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
I think this is quite reasonable. I'm not sure about the exact cost, someone should do the math (operational cost, teaching personal, cover discount for paying in Dash etc) and make a pre-proposal - that would be interesting to see.

PS. That's one of these proposals that require some DAO around them, no way to manage every single shop via Treasury ;)
Agreed. Could the Dash core team give this work to someone they trust?
 
Apr 24, 2017
132
30
78
51
Italy
pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
if you have to bribe people to use your product you're doing it wrong.
When you start a network the first part is always the hardest. It's a bit like when you turn on a car with a combustion engine. The engine might be perfect, but you still need some external electricity to activate it. That's why you have an electrical engine to turn on the normal one. When I speak about Dash I find a lot of people being very interested. Merchants too. But no one will actually start using it. And why should they use it if no one in the public has dash. So we need to start to have enough merchants have dash. And have it in touristic places can be a really good strategy. You go to a Pizzeria in Rome and you use your Dash. No need to pay VISA any money for this dinner. This will be a great advertisement. There is a lot of advertisement which is just making people aware that a possibility exist. In other words we can make the perfect crypto from an engineering perspective. But unless you start to have both merchants AND people in their pocket, people will not use it on the street.
 

JZA

Active Member
Jan 4, 2016
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Cancun
alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
I had this discussion many times, the person I was having this wanted the project to pay for the hardware to the store, as well as some insurance for the negative volatility of the coin as long as they trade their DASH with 'us' and make it a business out of it.

I wonder how will this make sense. I can see some good points but also many hurdles. Approaching a small business with a 'free' $ 250 tablet with a DASH wallet and support for exchanging their dash for fiat. Might give a all-in-one solution for a business that might be overwealmed with crypto.
 

younglegend

Member
Jan 1, 2017
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We don't have to pay the merchant to accept dash. But educate merchant there's way to get paid

other than fiat. What we really need is liable fiat gateways. Just giving dash away alone won't increase its acceptance..
 

JZA

Active Member
Jan 4, 2016
516
226
113
Cancun
alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
A fiat gateway wont be enough to hold things like negative volatility. Imagine you have a burger joint, which you need to restock daily. So you made 400 usd of sales in DASH, but DASH price drop by 20% and now you only have 320 usd, your stock is around 300 usd which means your margin was just evaporated for that day.

You might think is a 'small' risk, but to them is a no go. The margin game a tiny volatility might take all days profits.
 

younglegend

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Jan 1, 2017
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I was able to bargain a jewelery seller to accept less than half the market price.

they will do just fine with little volatility. And when is the last time dash had 20%drop???
 

Ftoole

Member
Aug 20, 2017
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I would say pay them nothing. If the we roomies accept and promote dash for 1 year. Give them a dash atm, pos system, and some swag. Signs and stickers to. I mean dash fees alone are a great savings but I think giving them all the tools is better then money.
 

JZA

Active Member
Jan 4, 2016
516
226
113
Cancun
alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
Believe me they are not interested with the last time, they are more concern with the next time. Is very naive thinking DASH will never experience a crash.
 

JZA

Active Member
Jan 4, 2016
516
226
113
Cancun
alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
Dash has to bribe people to do everything for it, in contrast to 100% volunteer grassroots coins like Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero, and Decred.

Dash even has to bribe people to attend its MeetUps. Sad! People fly across time zones to attend Monero meet-ups on their own dime, while Dashers resort to "FREE GIFT" time-share marketing gimmicks.

Bitcoin never bribed merchants to accept it. Satoshi never had to convince or 'incentivize' merchants to accept Bitcoin.

Dash's TryHard approach reeks of insecurity and high time preferences. As if trying to force merchant adoption will make it happen instead of backfiring because of the ugly optics and history associated with foisting yet another half-baked retail payment rail on long-suffering businesses.
That's why nobody use those coins or have to wait a decade to be aware of them. How many people know Bitcoin, how many people know Android. They are the same age, but wait, Google had to pay Motorola and Samsung to use Android as opposed to their old legacy OS like Tizen or WebOS. But who cares, Android has 86.5% of the mobile market share, so who cares.
 

Dashmaximalist

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Millions of people use Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Monero every day. None of those coins had to "wait a decade" for the public to be aware of them.

You are just trying to rationalize paying merchants bribes to use Dash. Stop it, or at least do a better job than resorting to just making shit up.

Rambling about Android does nothing to demonstrate why Dash should resort to paying for merchant adoption like a pitiful john pays a prostitute for (begrudging, conditional, temporary) acceptance.

Dash needs merchants to really like it, just like guys need women to really like them so they don't have to pay hookers for a fake version of real attraction.
The big difference between those coins and dash is , dash can afford to pay merchants unlike others ( coz of treasury ) , now should we pay them directly , i would probably say no ..

we need to do enough research to come up with all the alternatives and a proper structure in plan. like lets say sponsoring music fests or so to begin with..
 

Coqui33

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Oct 16, 2017
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I think it is a good idea, if someone had the determination to follow-up and make sure that only complying businesses were sent each next payment.
 

younglegend

Member
Jan 1, 2017
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68
Guys stop putting nonsense here. Do you really think you can fairly distribute DASH to merchant world wide?

It will create more chaos than good.

We just have to keep improve our product so that it will be competitive medium of exchange.

and grow awareness among merchant around the globe
 
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Leonidas

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Oct 22, 2016
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Do you really think you can fairly distribute DASH to merchant world wide?
Worldwide ? Like any new idea, it must starts locally to see how it goes and to gain experience. You also need the people to do it. So I don't think that initiative would be worldwide at all at the beginning.

It will create more chaos than good.
Do you have any argument/proof of that ?

We just have to keep improve our product so that it will be competitive medium of exchange.
What prevent us from doing both ?

and grow awareness among merchant around the globe
What is your solution to do so ?
 

younglegend

Member
Jan 1, 2017
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How will you ethically explain to anyone that we give dash to certain merchant?

And how will you know the dash given out to the merchant won't be cashed out for their pocket?

the rest of the questions are just so disrespectful.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
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the rest of the questions are just so disrespectful.
You ask us "stop putting nonsense here" and my questions are disrespectful ?

Plus, honestly, I really dont see how asking you to provide some proofs or argument to some claims such as "it will create more chaos than good" is disrespectful.

I am trying to have a debate, but it fills more like you are interviewing us/me, asking questions but not answering others, and I don't really like that I have to say. But, as there is still a million reason that it could be a misunderstood between us, I'll give it a last try :) and answer your question (I really would appreciate you would return the favour)

How will you ethically explain to anyone that we give dash to certain merchant?
By putting up a logo Dash on his door and accepting Dash, the merchant is bringing a valuable service to Dash network so he could be payed for that. As is anyone getting money from the Treasury when putting up a proposal to increase Dash's network value. You do something that increase the value, you get paid.

And if you mean the difference between new merchnats getting paid as compared to already existing merchants not getting paid, there are various solutions. Like any company, terms can be set for a service/promotion : XX$ given for any new subscription from (date) to (date). Or they could simply receive the same amount as would the knew, because they too provide a valuable service to the network (more in favour of the latter).

Of course, those conditions would be temporary. At some point, Dash network would not have to pay them anymore. Why ? Because belonging to our network will be more profitable than not to. So they will just do it. Today they don't because of the opposite reason : it will cost them time, money, risks, etc. It only comes down to that to me. Benefit vs avantage.
 

younglegend

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Jan 1, 2017
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I already made my self clear why it would create more chaos than good.

Dash has grown too big at this point, won't need same project as if like feathercoin or novacoin might do.

Its impossible to do the project you just describing fairly through out the globe.(unless you miraculously find the

way to do this globally with out using all our budget)


We make wrong move and we can turn off other countries interest.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
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I already made my self clear why it would create more chaos than good.
Please, it looks like I am the one not saying your clear argument. I have read all your comments from this thread again and I can't see any argument explaining how that would create more chaos than good. Please quote yourself where you have provided some logical claims instead of make shallow statements.

We make wrong move and we can turn off other countries interest.
Once again, care to elaborate ?


As far as I'm concerned I have provided you some. Our product has two side. On one hand, it has to be good and on the other hand it has to be used. Given the fierce competition in this world, those are two very differents things. It is not because your product is good that people will use it. You need some nice strategy to get in the hands of people. That's exactly what we do when we pay for integration on a plateform and when we fund other initiative.

Airbnb is nothing without its users (as in people proposing their house to rent). I heard actually somebody made a website based on blockchain that is an airbnb decentralized. I forgot the name. Why ? Because I went on it, there were 3 to 4 announces so I left.

Core Team is very aware of that and have their own solution that is called Evolution and will be marketplace. Their strategy is, instead of getting every merchants integrating Dash individually, let's just set them up an account to Dash Evolution marketplace. Like that they just have to connect there to reach customers they would have not otherwised.

As far as online shopping is concerned, the more payment choices on a website you have, the less click through rate you have (as explained by Ryan Taylor during the london conference). So an online merchant accepting Dash is actually sell less ! And this has nothing to do with Dash.

As long as you don't have evolution, you have to propose something to the merchants to balance the time, cost, and sell opportunities he will lost. If you can't understand that the majority of merchants will integrate Dash only if it bring them ROI, and that this will happen only if there is enough of a big network, we won't understand each other.

Besides, Evolution does not solve the brick and mortar side of the equation. And, anyways, even though I find Core Team solution awesome, I believe that any new initiative like this one, furthermore when we got that unused budget, is just good for the network. It it not incompatible with Core Team plus by setting up new initiative by new people you further decentralized the power in the network.

Its impossible to do the project you just describing fairly through out the globe.(unless you miraculously find the

way to do this globally with out using all our budget)
This project would start locally. Like any Dash initiative. Then you scale up. Does not have to be global from the get go. And so it wont use all the budget. Beside, my proposition was to use what is left of the budget every month so....
 

younglegend

Member
Jan 1, 2017
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Start locally? Dash is in all major exchanges.

and one of the biggest crypto currency.

If you we decide to give it away to merchant, it has to be done fairly around the globe.(I don't have

the answer and I am not proposing idea of distribution, mining and exchanges does

more efficiently than anyone can)


right now 40% of the dash trade volume is in asia, and correct me if I am wrong.

if we give out dash locally they won't be happy. It will have to be

out of your own pocket not to upset stake holders including me.

If you don't believe me put it on the proposal to see it your self.


if you don't see the logical explanation, then know that everyone here

understood my point. Its just you keep asking me to provide "proof why it will

bring more chaos."
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
395
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Ok, we definitely don't understand each other, I'll stop it there :). Thanks for answering though