OK, help me feel better PLEASE

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
From BTCtalk.......I didn't want to feed any trolls.

I'm not so sure I want user accounts. :/
I had the same gut reaction, but Evan said nothing would be published (for anyone else to see) unless you choose to do so (which you might if you're a merchant). Otherwise, you can keep all your information encrypted, which is simply a user name, password and email address (the most identifiable item) I understand that any time the network contacts you through email, the email provider will be able to tell you have a Dash account, and to me that's a problem.

So I know they understand this and are figuring out the details still, but for now, to avoid sybil attacks, they need emails. I think there are privacy oriented email accounts where the servers don't store anything, but I don't know exactly how they work or who does it :/
Nothing will be published. Ok. What about when the FBI wants to trace me? How can I be sure my private purchase on a DNM won't be traced back to me because I created an email address at yahoo.com, they get subpoena'd and bang my IP address is known by the FBI.

Sure this is a promising project as far as the goals ED has, but as described it's not usable for dark markets. The privacy aspect of this project has lost it's luster as long as a user account is needed. At the risk of being grouped into the troll crowd (which I'm not), the project appears to have turned into something totally opposite of what I wanted to be behind.

Am I worried for nothing? Maybe, but I haven't seen anything that makes me feel warm and fuzzy about our privacy in the future.

How can the average Joe be assured that there won't be a way to be traced?
 
  • Like
Reactions: daf

intertan

Member
Nov 8, 2014
81
36
58
You scared that since you have a account with dash talk they can find what you are doing with dash?
Since when is it illegal to own an account with a forum?
Unless they have your wa let and see what addresses have been a signed to you then there is no way they can pin it on you.
 

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
You scared that since you have a account with dash talk they can find what you are doing with dash?
Since when is it illegal to own an account with a forum?
No....I'm not. Evolution will require a user account. Evolution is coming and from what I saw in the video, you NEED to confirm an email address....I can't fathom why. There has to be a better way.
 

freckleg

New Member
Jan 24, 2015
8
4
3
Evolution is build on top of the second tier. You either use the new easy to use abilities or old style. Best of both worlds
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheDashGuy

freckleg

New Member
Jan 24, 2015
8
4
3
Here you can read that ;-) The core of the system does not change. Still same blockchain, same qt wallet you can use. Or if you want to use it in a more simple way you use evolution functionality with electrum wallet.
Did you think eg mining will be any different in evolution, how blocks work, how tx are propagated, etc underlying it is still the same. But i am sure there will be an evolution faq somewhere in the near future, no worries
 
  • Like
Reactions: daf and buster
B

buster

Guest
Evolution is prototype but wallets are on main net correct? Today I used my qt wallet to send DASH. Both wallets coexist. Will developers continue working on qt wallets? I dunno? Seems like it works pretty good to me. Why not focus on bringing the project to mass market?
 

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
Evolution is prototype but wallets are on main net correct? Today I used my qt wallet to send DASH. Both wallets coexist. Will developers continue working on qt wallets? I dunno? Seems like it works pretty good to me. Why not focus on bringing the project to mass market?
It would be really cool if eduffield would clarify how it will work for those concerned with privacy.
 

bluebit

Active Member
Jun 4, 2015
196
197
103
From BTCtalk.......I didn't want to feed any trolls.

[quote author=TanteStefana2 link=topic=421615.msg13648065#msg13648065 date=1453528360]
[quote author=Jestah link=topic=421615.msg13648018#msg13648018 date=1453527704]


I'm not so sure I want user accounts. :/
I had the same gut reaction, but Evan said nothing would be published (for anyone else to see) unless you choose to do so (which you might if you're a merchant). Otherwise, you can keep all your information encrypted, which is simply a user name, password and email address (the most identifiable item) I understand that any time the network contacts you through email, the email provider will be able to tell you have a Dash account, and to me that's a problem.

So I know they understand this and are figuring out the details still, but for now, to avoid sybil attacks, they need emails. I think there are privacy oriented email accounts where the servers don't store anything, but I don't know exactly how they work or who does it :/
[/quote]

Nothing will be published. Ok. What about when the FBI wants to trace me? How can I be sure my private purchase on DN won't be traced back to me because I created an email address at yahoo.com, they get subpoena'd and bang my IP address is known by the FBI.

Sure this is a promising project as far as the goals ED has, but as described it's not usable for dark markets. The privacy aspect of this project has lost it's luster as long as a user account is needed. At the risk of being grouped into the troll crowd (which I'm not), the project appears to have turned into something totally opposite of what I wanted to be behind.

Am I worried for nothing? Maybe, but I haven't seen anything that makes me feel warm and fuzzy about our privacy in the future.

How can the average Joe be assured that there won't be a way to be traced?[/QUOTE]

use protonmail.com for your email
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeztah

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
I have no idea why, but the topic was posted twice. If anyone is able, please merge these two threads.
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,011
1,170
1,183
From BTCtalk.......I didn't want to feed any trolls.



Nothing will be published. Ok. What about when the FBI wants to trace me? How can I be sure my private purchase on a DNM won't be traced back to me because I created an email address at yahoo.com, they get subpoena'd and bang my IP address is known by the FBI.

Sure this is a promising project as far as the goals ED has, but as described it's not usable for dark markets. The privacy aspect of this project has lost it's luster as long as a user account is needed. At the risk of being grouped into the troll crowd (which I'm not), the project appears to have turned into something totally opposite of what I wanted to be behind.

Am I worried for nothing? Maybe, but I haven't seen anything that makes me feel warm and fuzzy about our privacy in the future.

How can the average Joe be assured that there won't be a way to be traced?
I definitely also had similar concerns, though for me I'm more worried about metadata.

However, having listened to his conference talk more closely, I feel a lot more comfortable because the way I understand it - and it's not immediately clear - they've built an advanced distributed API and messaging system, and this new wallet is simply their own specific implementation. As was pointed out here - and again it wasn't clear at all! - this new wallet coexists with existing wallets.

In other words, third party developers can come along with their own wallets and applications, and it might function in a very different way.. for example, someone might implement two factor authentication using google authenticator or sms. I can imagine a visa gateway (optional) being built on top of this. I suspect this system is a lot more powerful than we first thought.

 

InTheWoods

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Oct 12, 2014
721
941
263
I think it would be best for Evolution to use its own decentralized email system. Something like tor mail perhaps. It's not ok to use externally hosted emails.

I found it funny that Evan used the Russian Yandex email in his presentation. Using Russian won't save you if you live in Russia and if russian regulators want to nail you. I guess it does make sense to use emails hosted in countries where some authorities can't reach but ideally you'd want a decentralized email system.

If not just remove the email requirement or make it optional or something.
 

Museifu

New Member
Mar 9, 2015
28
26
13
I have very similar concerns, tbh. DASH has always been based on its decentralization, fungibility, and the ability of choice in anonymity of payments; it's what separates DASH from, say, CryptoNote coins, which are excellent for anonymity but terrible for "above board" businesses. DASH's strength has always been the end-user's ability to choose.

EVOLUTION, for all its wonderful ideas in decentralized governance, does not have such choice cooked into the protocol. This is a concern. I also don't give a crap about the social network aspect, but hey, that's just me. The core devs are always highly innovative, but in this instance, they almost seem to be spreading themselves too thin. DASH is becoming bipolar; originally it was built upon the foundation of chosen anonymity, but now it seems to be pandering towards the exact opposite crowd with some of the features in EVOLUTION, which is quite confusing.

Once Mycelium finishes their built-in CoinJoin protocol and Samourai open sources BIP47, what will separate DASH from bitcoin, aside from InstantX and the two-tier network? Some silly social media platform built on top of a coin where it doesn't necessarily belong?

That's not to say incetivized full nodes can't take this coin far. It solves the endless blocksize debates the bitcoin community has been utterly incapable of receiving a consensus in. Some of these newer changes, though, I personally find somewhat disconcerting. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable using EVOLUTION without built-in IP obfuscation that's network-wide.

But the core devs haven't failed to disappoint thus far, so I'll withhold judgment until then...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeztah

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
I have very similar concerns, tbh. DASH has always been based on its decentralization, fungibility, and the ability of choice in anonymity of payments; it's what separates DASH from, say, CryptoNote coins, which are excellent for anonymity but terrible for "above board" businesses. DASH's strength has always been the end-user's ability to choose.

EVOLUTION, for all its wonderful ideas in decentralized governance, does not have such choice cooked into the protocol. This is a concern. I also don't give a crap about the social network aspect, but hey, that's just me. The core devs are always highly innovative, but in this instance, they almost seem to be spreading themselves too thin. DASH is becoming bipolar; originally it was built upon the foundation of chosen anonymity, but now it seems to be pandering towards the exact opposite crowd with some of the features in EVOLUTION, which is quite confusing.

Once Mycelium finishes their built-in CoinJoin protocol and Samourai open sources BIP47, what will separate DASH from bitcoin, aside from InstantX and the two-tier network? Some silly social media platform built on top of a coin where it doesn't necessarily belong?

That's not to say incetivized full nodes can't take this coin far. It solves the endless blocksize debates the bitcoin community has been utterly incapable of receiving a consensus in. Some of these newer changes, though, I personally find somewhat disconcerting. I don't know if I'd feel comfortable using EVOLUTION without built-in IP obfuscation that's network-wide.

But the core devs haven't failed to disappoint thus far, so I'll withhold judgment until then...
I don't use any social media, other than these forums so why would I need it in my wallet? As long as we aren't forced to use the evolution portion, I'm happy. :)
 

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
1,228
1,010
183
I think you guys are missing the point here, this would be used at say dinner with friends, not a "facebook" where people are listed and can look one another up...... atleast thats my understanding of it.

Think of it like a phonebook of your friends wallet ID's and maybe some of the stores you visit. This would work best paired with NFC technology or card readers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hiddendark

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
I think you guys are missing the point here, this would be used at say dinner with friends, not a "facebook" where people are listed and can look one another up...... atleast thats my understanding of it.

Think of it like a phonebook of your friends wallet ID's and maybe some of the stores you visit. This would work best paired with NFC technology or card readers.
It'll be an interesting next couple of months for sure.
 

Proteus

Member
Jun 23, 2015
44
86
58
most people who have something to hide don't login a "yahoo email" from their clearnet ip lol but I know there are a lot of uneducated whom it would be in our best interest to be the solution they can use without having to be a pro at ipsec, cyber security and/or cookies/malware web tracking etc

for instance i would imagine there is a portion of dash userbase that uses dash for features that are actually possible with bitcoin (coinjoin, instant/off blockchain confirmations etc) but not as user friendly or implemented at a protocol level.
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,011
1,170
1,183
My understanding is, the Evolution thing is not required, it's simply an official version of a wallet sitting on top of the new DAPI + messaging system. People can, therefore, use the current wallet or Evo at the same time; one for ultimate privacy and the other for day-to-day activities. More so, AFAIK the system is advanced enough that third party developers can come along and create easily their own wallet system that behaves completely differently, for example, with SMS authentication. I can even imagine people running bitcoin or visa transaction over this.

If I'm correct, then I think work will need to be done to explain this more.
 

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
1,228
1,010
183
I think it would be best for Evolution to use its own decentralized email system. Something like tor mail perhaps. It's not ok to use externally hosted emails.

I found it funny that Evan used the Russian Yandex email in his presentation. Using Russian won't save you if you live in Russia and if russian regulators want to nail you. I guess it does make sense to use emails hosted in countries where some authorities can't reach but ideally you'd want a decentralized email system.

If not just remove the email requirement or make it optional or something.
We can't try to do to much at once though, it will cause the other parts of the project to suffer from a quality perspective. One thing at a time.
 
B

buster

Guest
There is two threads with exact same responses and OP post. Can a forum moderator easily merge the two? It's really annoying. Not sure why people didn't just let one of the threads die instead of responding to both.
 

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
There is two threads with exact same responses and OP post. Can a forum moderator easily merge the two? It's really annoying. Not sure why people didn't just let one of the threads die instead of responding to both.
I already posted to request that very thing the second it happened. The reason for the threads continuing is because of the wonky notification system. Why aren't there moderators here?
 
  • Like
Reactions: buster
B

buster

Guest
I already posted to request that very thing the second it happened. The reason for the threads continuing is because of the wonky notification system. Why aren't there moderators here?
I saw you did that. No clue where mods are but they seem very reluctant to accept any help when it's very obvious they could use it. I've seen Chinese spam post sit in general thread for hours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeztah