Official Pre-Proposal: Proposal Evaluation Committee

Will this be beneficial for Dash?


  • Total voters
    39

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
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Proposal withdrawn
 
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akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
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I don't expect this to work as intended, but since PEC review is non-committing, just recommendation to MNO's - why not? Trying something is better than doing nothing.
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
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Dash Address
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We would like to sponsor this proposal at Dash Budget Watch -- @Biltong -- if we get the backers, you won't have to pay the proposal fee. With your permission, I can add it right away.

https://fundchan.com/dashbudgetwatch
Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for the offer, but Dash Force offered to pay a couple of weeks ago.
If they change their minds I will definitely take you up on yours ;)
One of the PEC teams will be contacting you about your Pre-Proposals
Good luck with FundChan
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
113
Dash Address
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I don't expect this to work as intended, ...
You've been around - you're seeing a problem somewhere. Tell, so we can hopefully prevent the problem. o_O
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
You've been around - you're seeing a problem somewhere. Tell, so we can hopefully prevent the problem. o_O
If I would be able to translate the feeling into words, I would already do it :) So, I'd better reserve my opinion until I'll see the first iteration completed.
 

TheSingleton

Active Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 27, 2017
275
140
103
Not sure how this will work out but you have shown that you care and are willing to put in some work so ill support this and well just have to see how it goes.
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
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Dash Address
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Yep - let's hope it works as planned.
Got a good team working on it though ;) See above
 

IronVape

Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 26, 2016
117
75
78
It's clear that our governance system is trying to evolve. I support all attempts to improve it. Some will succeed some will fail, but I see many of us with similar desires, so I have hope that we will work it out.

TLDR: Yes from me.
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Yep - let's hope it works as planned.
Got a good team working on it though ;) See above
I noticed that none of your team has any experience in marketing. Is there any reason for this? It seems to me that Dash could use help marketing, getting the word out about its product and services. Not sure how experience in banking would help.
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
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Dash Address
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Are you volunteering? :p
I think the problem is crypto is mostly populated by geeks and Marketing people are too busy partying to be geeks ;)
But you're right - Got an MBA Marketing lined up in the reserve list - will be joining us as soon as a position opens up.
 
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MizzyMax

Member
Feb 14, 2017
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Personally the idea of 6 people swaying the way they want to take Dash is not the way to go. Bias is in all of us let's be honest, there is no organization that is not bias towards some group of people, just like certain news stations are republican favored and some are democratic favored. This creates the faulty system we have now with corruption, down the road it could easily play out as someone has friends in the committee or even bribes the committee to give positive feed back. This could also have the ability to ruin the credibility of a perfectly good proposal because of greed. (Ex. Dash force has new competition putting in a proposal. Dash force bribes the committee and the committee spreads rumors and lies about the legitimacy of the new proposal ending up in the failure of a proposal passing)

We have 4400 masternodes holding almost 200k each, they are highly incentivized to make the right choice to increase their own Dash wealth. I do not see this as a problem it is merely a learning curve. Mistakes happen but masternodes learn from them.

Now if you want to be a group of people who (for free) go around giving feed back on proposals (like the others) Then that would be great, but creating a centralized group of people to help us vote is definitely not in mind.

Being the accounting team for Dash would be a great idea though, as I do see several sources asking for info on where the money is actually going. But in a way it should be part of the teams responsiblity to stay transparent. So not sure.
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Personally the idea of 6 people swaying the way they want to take Dash is not the way to go. Bias is in all of us let's be honest, there is no organization that is not bias towards some group of people, just like certain news stations are republican favored and some are democratic favored. This creates the faulty system we have now with corruption, down the road it could easily play out as someone has friends in the committee or even bribes the committee to give positive feed back. This could also have the ability to ruin the credibility of a perfectly good proposal because of greed. (Ex. Dash force has new competition putting in a proposal. Dash force bribes the committee and the committee spreads rumors and lies about the legitimacy of the new proposal ending up in the failure of a proposal passing)

We have 4400 masternodes holding almost 200k each, they are highly incentivized to make the right choice to increase their own Dash wealth. I do not see this as a problem it is merely a learning curve. Mistakes happen but masternodes learn from them.

Now if you want to be a group of people who (for free) go around giving feed back on proposals (like the others) Then that would be great, but creating a centralized group of people to help us vote is definitely not in mind.

Being the accounting team for Dash would be a great idea though, as I do see several sources asking for info on where the money is actually going. But in a way it should be part of the teams responsiblity to stay transparent. So not sure.
I agree with you, @MizzyMax [emoji74]


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Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
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113
Dash Address
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Bribing 6 MNO's!!? What will it take? Long standing reps - criminal charges - say $50,000 each? $300,000 in bribes? What will the proposal be for: $1.000,000? :rolleyes:
Come on Missy - you'll have to do better than that! :D

Edited: Removed uncalled for comment
 
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MizzyMax

Member
Feb 14, 2017
168
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Bribing 6 MNO's!!? What will it take? Long standing reps - criminal charges - say $50,000 each? $300,000 in bribes? What will the proposal be for: $1.000,000? :rolleyes:
Come on Missy - We know you're an abob-the-anonymous fan-boy - you'll have to do better than that! :D
Literally they could do anything they could blackmail, bribe , threaten to kill. When it comes to hundreds of thousands of dollars people do crazy things. You cannot ignore the facts that it already happens in today's world, how would you think it wouldn't in this example?

And thanks for proving that you can be extremely bias already. Calling me the "abob-the anonymous fan-boy" and to
All who give constructive criticism and oppose the committee shall receive a bad review and be discredited because the committee want to stay in power.
 

jimbursch

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
837
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Hi @Biltong

I suggest positioning PEC more like a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" rather than like a Yelp review (forgive me if these are American references).

Do the evaluations in private with the proposal owners, then leave it up to the proposal owner to decide if they want to share the PEC results. Good proposals will gladly trumpet "PEC approved" and the bad proposals will be noted by their absence of PEC approval.
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Hi @Biltong

I suggest positioning PEC more like a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" rather than like a Yelp review (forgive me if these are American references).

Do the evaluations in private with the proposal owners, then leave it up to the proposal owner to decide if they want to share the PEC results. Good proposals will gladly trumpet "PEC approved" and the bad proposals will be noted by their absence of PEC approval.
In private would be safer, but defeat the education/prevention part of the PEC - thought about & discussed before:
Newcomers seeing how the evaluations improve the Pre-P's; what is needed etc and scammers/time wasters/chancers seeing what will happen with their Pre-P's ,
But thanx for the feedback
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
...

And thanks for proving that you can be extremely bias already. Calling me the "abob-the anonymous fan-boy" and to
All who give constructive criticism and oppose the committee shall receive a bad review and be discredited because the committee want to stay in power.
Hate to say this, but you are right. Uncalled for :(
Had a day out of hell yesterday and took it out on you. If you have an hour and a half - I'll tell you about it: Cars/kids/starting a new biz etc etc
Anyway, forgive an old fart - getting grumpier by the day :eek:

And don't worry - I don't do evaluations and I don't think any of the team will let me tell them what to say - most have been around far longer than me and none of them are pushovers - believe me.
 

MizzyMax

Member
Feb 14, 2017
168
31
88
25
Hate to say this, but you are right. Uncalled for :(
Had a day out of hell yesterday and took it out on you. If you have an hour and a half - I'll tell you about it: Cars/kids/starting a new biz etc etc
Anyway, forgive an old fart - getting grumpier by the day :eek:

And don't worry - I don't do evaluations and I don't think any of the team will let me tell them what to say - most have been around far longer than me and none of them are pushovers - believe me.
it's all good we cool but yea I do like you passion to do something for Dash but I just believe it's in the wrong place.
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Wondering how the 6 people on the panel were chosen and by whom. Just seems really arbitrary. I do like Jim's idea though :)
 

TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
So they're the people who have the most spare time? I don't get the qualification aspect to this plan... or does that matter?


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Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
So they're the people who have the most spare time? I don't get the qualification aspect to this plan...

PEC weekly update
When I 1st started out i hoped to get 2 volunteers and catered for that: 15 Dash each (couple of months back) for doing +- 10 proposals each.​
I was pleasantly surprised when I got 15 volunteers. I gave them all a test proposal to see if they are up to it and a very tight deadline to gauge commitment. 6 Provided their evaluations in time :rolleyes:
Again I was very surprised about the quality of the evaluations and most surprised how well the guidelines worked - most of the evaluations were quite close, with a number giving the same marks for different questions.
Now I had a problem: Cut the 6 down to 2! Throw away the wealth of experience of the others?
I approached the whole team and suggested that we share the 30 Dash amongst the whole team, expecting some of them to fall out - None did!
At this stage I felt guilty and added my Dash to the pot ;)

So there we are: a lot of MNO's - a wealth of experience in a lot of fields - way better than I ever hoped for.
Certainly the team is not perfect - lack of advertising expertise is an obvious one, although there's a MBA in marketing on the reserve list. As soon as one of the others fall away we'll bring him in.
IOW: I didn't pick them - they picked themselves :D

At the moment they are working as small teams of 2 or 3. Each Ev. gives an evaluation and send it to me.
Once all the members of a teams evals are, in I post them on our slack - this is to prevent them influencing each other before doing their eval.
The team then compare/discuss and compile one Report together.
All the other teams watch what they are doing. Idea being to learn from each other.

Once all the team members evals are consistently close to each other, we'll know they are ready to go off on their own and the teams will break up and each Evaluator will do his/her own evaluations.
I hope this won't take to long since the team effort is a lot of extra work for them.
BTW - I won't be doing Evals myself - don't have the time.

Hope this gives you a better idea - we are trying to do good ;)
 
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TheBigCat

Member
Apr 30, 2017
95
37
68
Hi TBC,
When I 1st started out i hoped to get 2 volunteers and catered for that: 15 Dash each (couple of months back) for doing +- 10 proposals each.
I was pleasantly surprised when I got 17 volunteers. I gave them all a test proposal to see if they are up to it and a very tight deadline to gauge commitment. 6 Provided their evaluations in time :rolleyes:
Again I was very surprised about the quality of the evaluations and most surprised how well the guidelines worked - most of the evaluations were quite close, with a number giving the same marks for different questions.
Now I had a problem: Cut the 6 down to 2! Throw away the wealth of experience of the others?
I approached the whole team and suggested that we share the 30 Dash amongst the whole team, expecting some of them to fall out - None did!
At this stage I felt guilty and added my Dash to the pot ;)
So there we are: a lot of MNO's - a wealth of experience in a lot of fields - way better than I ever hoped for.
Certainly the team is not perfect - lack of advertising expertise is an obvious one, although there's a MBA in marketing on the reserve list. As soon as one of the others fall away we'll bring him in.
IOW: I didn't pick them - they picked themselves :D

At the moment they are working as small teams of 2 or 3. Each Ev. gives an evaluation and send it to me.
Once all the members of a teams evals are, in I post them - this is to prevent them influencing each other beforehand.
The team then compare/discuss and compile one Report together.
All the other teams watch what they are doing - we've got our own slack - Idea being to learn from each other.
Once all the team members evals are consistently close to each other, we'll know they are ready to go off on their own and the teams will break up and each Evaluator will do his/her own evaluations.
I hope this won't take to long since the team effort is a lot of extra work for them.
BTW - I won't be doing Evals myself - don't have the time.

Hope this gives you a better idea - we are trying to do good ;)
Well, that IS a lot of work and thought put in, Biltong. [emoji74]


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Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Well, that IS a lot of work and thought put in, Biltong. [emoji74]
Also a large amount of thoughtful input re 'how to do things' coming from the team, making my life far easier.
 

Biltong

Active Member
Mar 22, 2017
367
136
113
Dash Address
XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
Update of my idea:/
Hi Simon,
If you do want to use our services (note this is a free service)
1. Please Private Message @Biltong on the Dash Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions Forum indicating that you want the help of the PEC, so we can assign a team to you.
2. Once you have read How to submit a Dash Pre-Proposal https://goo.gl/7jmwXQ you might want to adjust your Pre-Proposal before we submit our 1st Evaluation, so we’ll wait for you to give us the go-ahead before we start the evaluation process.
3. Again, PM @Biltong when you are ready for the 1st Evaluation.
Hope to hear from you quite soon. :)
 

GrandMasterDash

Well-known Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
2,722
970
183
Don't like the word "Committee", would prefer "Group".

Committee sounds too formal / misrepresents / suggests there is just one "committee" representing dash proposals.

Perhaps the generic name could be "Proposal Services Group". Then all these groups can give themselves pet names e.g. PSG Panther, PSG Jaguar etc. This would give the flexibility that some groups can offer enhanced proposal services such as translations etc.