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Official Pre-Proposal: Proposal Evaluation Committee

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by Biltong, Jun 6, 2017.

?

Will this be beneficial for Dash?

  1. MNO only - Yes

    46.2%
  2. MNO only - No

    12.8%
  3. Non-MNO - Yes

    33.3%
  4. Non-MNO - No

    7.7%
  1. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Proposal withdrawn
     
    #1 Biltong, Jun 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  2. jimbursch

    jimbursch Active Member

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    We would like to sponsor this proposal at Dash Budget Watch -- @Biltong -- if we get the backers, you won't have to pay the proposal fee. With your permission, I can add it right away.

    https://fundchan.com/dashbudgetwatch
     
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  3. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    I don't expect this to work as intended, but since PEC review is non-committing, just recommendation to MNO's - why not? Trying something is better than doing nothing.
     
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  4. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Thanx akhavr (I think ;)
     
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  5. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Hi Jim,
    Thank you so much for the offer, but Dash Force offered to pay a couple of weeks ago.
    If they change their minds I will definitely take you up on yours ;)
    One of the PEC teams will be contacting you about your Pre-Proposals
    Good luck with FundChan
     
  6. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    You've been around - you're seeing a problem somewhere. Tell, so we can hopefully prevent the problem. o_O
     
  7. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    If I would be able to translate the feeling into words, I would already do it :) So, I'd better reserve my opinion until I'll see the first iteration completed.
     
  8. TheSingleton

    TheSingleton Active Member
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    Not sure how this will work out but you have shown that you care and are willing to put in some work so ill support this and well just have to see how it goes.
     
  9. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Yep - let's hope it works as planned.
    Got a good team working on it though ;) See above
     
  10. IronVape

    IronVape Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    It's clear that our governance system is trying to evolve. I support all attempts to improve it. Some will succeed some will fail, but I see many of us with similar desires, so I have hope that we will work it out.

    TLDR: Yes from me.
     
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  11. TheBigCat

    TheBigCat Member

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    I noticed that none of your team has any experience in marketing. Is there any reason for this? It seems to me that Dash could use help marketing, getting the word out about its product and services. Not sure how experience in banking would help.
     
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  12. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Are you volunteering? :p
    I think the problem is crypto is mostly populated by geeks and Marketing people are too busy partying to be geeks ;)
    But you're right - Got an MBA Marketing lined up in the reserve list - will be joining us as soon as a position opens up.
     
    #12 Biltong, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  13. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member

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  14. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    Personally the idea of 6 people swaying the way they want to take Dash is not the way to go. Bias is in all of us let's be honest, there is no organization that is not bias towards some group of people, just like certain news stations are republican favored and some are democratic favored. This creates the faulty system we have now with corruption, down the road it could easily play out as someone has friends in the committee or even bribes the committee to give positive feed back. This could also have the ability to ruin the credibility of a perfectly good proposal because of greed. (Ex. Dash force has new competition putting in a proposal. Dash force bribes the committee and the committee spreads rumors and lies about the legitimacy of the new proposal ending up in the failure of a proposal passing)

    We have 4400 masternodes holding almost 200k each, they are highly incentivized to make the right choice to increase their own Dash wealth. I do not see this as a problem it is merely a learning curve. Mistakes happen but masternodes learn from them.

    Now if you want to be a group of people who (for free) go around giving feed back on proposals (like the others) Then that would be great, but creating a centralized group of people to help us vote is definitely not in mind.

    Being the accounting team for Dash would be a great idea though, as I do see several sources asking for info on where the money is actually going. But in a way it should be part of the teams responsiblity to stay transparent. So not sure.
     
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  15. TheBigCat

    TheBigCat Member

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    I agree with you, @MizzyMax


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Bribing 6 MNO's!!? What will it take? Long standing reps - criminal charges - say $50,000 each? $300,000 in bribes? What will the proposal be for: $1.000,000? :rolleyes:
    Come on Missy - you'll have to do better than that! :D

    Edited: Removed uncalled for comment
     
    #16 Biltong, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  17. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    Literally they could do anything they could blackmail, bribe , threaten to kill. When it comes to hundreds of thousands of dollars people do crazy things. You cannot ignore the facts that it already happens in today's world, how would you think it wouldn't in this example?

    And thanks for proving that you can be extremely bias already. Calling me the "abob-the anonymous fan-boy" and to
    All who give constructive criticism and oppose the committee shall receive a bad review and be discredited because the committee want to stay in power.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. jimbursch

    jimbursch Active Member

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    Hi @Biltong

    I suggest positioning PEC more like a "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval" rather than like a Yelp review (forgive me if these are American references).

    Do the evaluations in private with the proposal owners, then leave it up to the proposal owner to decide if they want to share the PEC results. Good proposals will gladly trumpet "PEC approved" and the bad proposals will be noted by their absence of PEC approval.
     
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  19. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    In private would be safer, but defeat the education/prevention part of the PEC - thought about & discussed before:
    Newcomers seeing how the evaluations improve the Pre-P's; what is needed etc and scammers/time wasters/chancers seeing what will happen with their Pre-P's ,
    But thanx for the feedback
     
  20. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Hate to say this, but you are right. Uncalled for :(
    Had a day out of hell yesterday and took it out on you. If you have an hour and a half - I'll tell you about it: Cars/kids/starting a new biz etc etc
    Anyway, forgive an old fart - getting grumpier by the day :eek:

    And don't worry - I don't do evaluations and I don't think any of the team will let me tell them what to say - most have been around far longer than me and none of them are pushovers - believe me.
     
  21. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    it's all good we cool but yea I do like you passion to do something for Dash but I just believe it's in the wrong place.
     
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  22. TheBigCat

    TheBigCat Member

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    Wondering how the 6 people on the panel were chosen and by whom. Just seems really arbitrary. I do like Jim's idea though :)
     
  23. TheSingleton

    TheSingleton Active Member
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    The way I understood it they all volunteered.
     
  24. TheBigCat

    TheBigCat Member

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    So they're the people who have the most spare time? I don't get the qualification aspect to this plan... or does that matter?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    PEC weekly update
    When I 1st started out i hoped to get 2 volunteers and catered for that: 15 Dash each (couple of months back) for doing +- 10 proposals each.​
    I was pleasantly surprised when I got 15 volunteers. I gave them all a test proposal to see if they are up to it and a very tight deadline to gauge commitment. 6 Provided their evaluations in time :rolleyes:
    Again I was very surprised about the quality of the evaluations and most surprised how well the guidelines worked - most of the evaluations were quite close, with a number giving the same marks for different questions.
    Now I had a problem: Cut the 6 down to 2! Throw away the wealth of experience of the others?
    I approached the whole team and suggested that we share the 30 Dash amongst the whole team, expecting some of them to fall out - None did!
    At this stage I felt guilty and added my Dash to the pot ;)

    So there we are: a lot of MNO's - a wealth of experience in a lot of fields - way better than I ever hoped for.
    Certainly the team is not perfect - lack of advertising expertise is an obvious one, although there's a MBA in marketing on the reserve list. As soon as one of the others fall away we'll bring him in.
    IOW: I didn't pick them - they picked themselves :D

    At the moment they are working as small teams of 2 or 3. Each Ev. gives an evaluation and send it to me.
    Once all the members of a teams evals are, in I post them on our slack - this is to prevent them influencing each other before doing their eval.
    The team then compare/discuss and compile one Report together.
    All the other teams watch what they are doing. Idea being to learn from each other.

    Once all the team members evals are consistently close to each other, we'll know they are ready to go off on their own and the teams will break up and each Evaluator will do his/her own evaluations.
    I hope this won't take to long since the team effort is a lot of extra work for them.
    BTW - I won't be doing Evals myself - don't have the time.

    Hope this gives you a better idea - we are trying to do good ;)
     
    #25 Biltong, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
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  26. TheBigCat

    TheBigCat Member

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    Well, that IS a lot of work and thought put in, Biltong.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  27. SimontheRavager

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  28. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Also a large amount of thoughtful input re 'how to do things' coming from the team, making my life far easier.
     
  29. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Hi Simon,
    If you do want to use our services (note this is a free service)
    1. Please Private Message @Biltong on the Dash Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions Forum indicating that you want the help of the PEC, so we can assign a team to you.
    2. Once you have read How to submit a Dash Pre-Proposal https://goo.gl/7jmwXQ you might want to adjust your Pre-Proposal before we submit our 1st Evaluation, so we’ll wait for you to give us the go-ahead before we start the evaluation process.
    3. Again, PM @Biltong when you are ready for the 1st Evaluation.
    Hope to hear from you quite soon. :)
     
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  30. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    Don't like the word "Committee", would prefer "Group".

    Committee sounds too formal / misrepresents / suggests there is just one "committee" representing dash proposals.

    Perhaps the generic name could be "Proposal Services Group". Then all these groups can give themselves pet names e.g. PSG Panther, PSG Jaguar etc. This would give the flexibility that some groups can offer enhanced proposal services such as translations etc.
     
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