Losing faith in DRK

Stealth923

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I must have live test data to fix that one, so that's going to be one of the last things before launch. We'll start RC5 testing soon.
OK great

Additionally - I would rather wait until all the ancillary components of darkcoin are completed before open source /RC5 launch. The effect of having a fully finished polished product will do wonders for confidence in the market & investors rather than saying the wallet GUI update will come 3 weeks later for example. If we need to wait the 3 weeks+ then so be it.
  • New website is completed with all information updated.
  • New wallet GUI is implemented.
  • Darkcoin Foundation with mission statement ready to go.
  • All bugs resolved and testing community is in sync to verify that everyone is happy. WE NEED A PERIOD OF NO CHANGES/UPDATES AND STABILITY IN TESTNET & or Pilot mainnet users before releasing to the general public.
  • Kristov Atlas review and any findings re-mediated and verified by Kristov
  • Official documentation explaining how to use darksend+ in a proper PDF and on new website.
  • Official press release statements ready for PRWeb, Wired, Coindesk etc.
  • Give prior warning and enough time for all pools MN operators to update.
I for one would rather wait until all of these are done properly before release. Lets uphold the quest to deliver only the highest quality rather than being time constrained and bound to impatient people kicking and screaming. These people are the ones that want to make a quick buck and move onto the next wave. Do not be wavered by them Evan.
 
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tungfa

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OK great
  • New website is completed with all information updated.
  • New wallet GUI is implemented.
  • Darkcoin Foundation with mission statement ready to go.
  • All bugs resolved and testing community is in sync to verify that everyone is happy. WE NEED A PERIOD OF NO CHANGES/UPDATES AND STABILITY IN TESTNET & or Pilot mainnet users before releasing to the general public.
  • Kristov Atlas review and any findings re-mediated and verified by Kristov
  • Official documentation explaining how to use darksend+ in a proper PDF and on new website.
  • Official press release statements ready for PRWeb, Wired, Coindesk etc.
  • Give prior warning and enough time for all pools MN operators to update.
I think this sounds like a great idea ! lets wait a bit and no rush so RC5 is sold and everything else is in place.
It would be great as well (not sure when that would happen) if we had K Atlas review before the launch of RC5 , so that would give us time to fix the last bugs he might find.
 

thelonecrouton

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OK great

Additionally - I would rather wait until all the ancillary components of darkcoin are completed before open source /RC5 launch. The effect of having a fully finished polished product will do wonders for confidence in the market & investors rather than saying the wallet GUI update will come 3 weeks later for example. If we need to wait the 3 weeks+ then so be it.
  • New website is completed with all information updated.
  • New wallet GUI is implemented.
  • Darkcoin Foundation with mission statement ready to go.
  • All bugs resolved and testing community is in sync to verify that everyone is happy. WE NEED A PERIOD OF NO CHANGES/UPDATES AND STABILITY IN TESTNET & or Pilot mainnet users before releasing to the general public.
  • Kristov Atlas review and any findings re-mediated and verified by Kristov
  • Official documentation explaining how to use darksend+ in a proper PDF and on new website.
  • Official press release statements ready for PRWeb, Wired, Coindesk etc.
  • Give prior warning and enough time for all pools MN operators to update.
I for one would rather wait until all of these are done properly before release. Lets uphold the quest to deliver only the highest quality rather than being time constrained and bound to impatient people kicking and screaming. These people are the ones that want to make a quick buck and move onto the next wave. Do not be wavered by them Evan.
The trouble with that is, it's unrealistic to manage all in one go. If the team had fifty full-time members, maybe...

Also, for anyone concerned about price, I think a steady stream of updates / events / news etc would be better than one giant blob that gets dumped all at once.
 

thelonecrouton

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I'd love to implement a round robin system if I can figure out a way to do that decentralized.
I think a Kademila-like DHT, kind of like how the bittorrent protocol works, might be close to what you're after? It's certainly well-tested tech. ;)

edit: you probably know all this, but: http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0005.html

Bittorrent nodes broadcast via UDP, probably just for speed and simplicity, but you can use TCP if you need handshaking between peers Masternodes.
 
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stonehedge

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The trouble with that is, it's unrealistic to manage all in one go. If the team had fifty full-time members, maybe...

Also, for anyone concerned about price, I think a steady stream of updates / events / news etc would be better than one giant blob that gets dumped all at once.
And if those updates come be made here in addition to on BTCtalk then that'd be perfect. Imho, if you get comms right, you keep people calm and also cut off any plausibility to some of the FUD that has been spread recently.
 
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thelonecrouton

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You know what calms a group of high testosterone guys down? An attractive woman who understands what she's talking about and impresses you (the man) while she does it. Get a few woman in and have them interview for the job to talk to the community, Be a face no one wants to be mad at. As a result, the development team just bought them a little more time. That maybe a little sexist but the levels of testosterone are becoming a little high.
I'm up for paying TanteStefana to be the voice/face of Darkcoin. Well, contributing to paying her anyway. :)
 
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Stealth923

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The trouble with that is, it's unrealistic to manage all in one go. If the team had fifty full-time members, maybe...

Also, for anyone concerned about price, I think a steady stream of updates / events / news etc would be better than one giant blob that gets dumped all at once.
I'm definitely not saying it needs to be a Big Bang approach. Some will run in Parallel , others in lock step. I'm saying that for open source release it should be a well planned and strategic approach before the general public and media get their hands on it. Having dark send work means nothing if the product isn't polished and no one can find information on how to use it.

The Darkcoin brand as a whole needs to be in alignment as people will not treat the open source release as a RC beta anymore and will see it as a finished product. Hence my points stated above need to be completed before open source.
 
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David

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Thank you, OP, for a great and well-reasoned post. There are only a few things that bother me:

1) Evan disregarded requests for RC4 to remain on testnet for just a few more days for a final round of testing. He was asked repeatedly to delay the launch until RC4 ran bug-free on testnet for 48-72 hours. He never responded to those requests; he simply launched the software. I have to say, this lack of attention to testers/community kind of bothers me.

2) The lack of communication is very difficult to stomach. I understand that there isn't always something to report, but IMO there should be an official update once a week, or at least every ten days or so. Even if all you've done is behind-the-scenes stuff, you can say "commented on a lot of code this week" or "squashed numerous small bugs on Jira." Perhaps we can have a "minor" weekly update posted by eltito every Monday, and Evan can continue to post the "major" official updates as needed.

3) Just a niggling detail, but it would be great to get an official post, stickied, listing all the devs and the projects they are currently working on. Update it weekly or biweekly to let us know how much progress they've made. The community doesn't need definite dates for releases--we know that is impossible--we just need to know that specific, definite progress is being made.

4) If you promise a media blitz, then either follow through or explain that it has been postponed (and why). I am strongly opposed to anything that resembles P&D, but you also have to understand that the world will move past you and forget you in a heartbeat. People (and businesses) have short attention spans, and you need to periodically remind them that you are there. We should have gotten a nicely-written press release explaining Darksend+, sent to select media outlets, with an acknowledgement of a few minor remaining bugs and a link to Jira.
 
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moli

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I agree with Stealth923. We are going to have DS open source, Kristov's code review, the foundation has been established. Evan said he's ready to go. This is it. It's going to make or break in the next few weeks.... So... I think we should have important things in place and be very well prepared for RC5.
 
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acidburn

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I agree with everything said above, but it's the same song from the same hymn sheet. How do you fix it? We seem to be good at talking about the issues and fixes but not actually fixing it
 
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tungfa

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I agree with Stealth923. We are going to have DS open source, Kristov's code review, the foundation has been established. Evan said he's ready to go. This is it. It's going to make or break in the next few weeks.... So... I think we should have important things in place and be very well prepared for RC5.
I do not think it is about 'make or break'
but
i totally agree we should get things into place to be 'ready' !

lets put together a list of what we (as the community) can do to support urgent matters for the next release,
so the developers can develop
and we get this on the way ! ...>
 

acidburn

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I do not think it is about 'make or break'
but
i totally agree we should get things into place to be 'ready' !

lets put together a list of what we (as the community) can do to support urgent matters for the next release,
so the developers can develop
and we get this on the way ! ...>

Can we make it a sticky and a new post? Don't want to trawl through all the posts to find it.
 

tungfa

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Can we make it a sticky and a new post? Don't want to trawl through all the posts to find it.
Whatever makes you happy my friend !
I am all game
 

Sub-Ether

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Funny because in January/February I was intrigued by the darkcoin concept, but I could not say I had much faith after all there were many alt coin releases coming from everywhere. But now having seen so much work with the RC releases/bug quoshing and a masternode system come online from nothing, an entire infrastructure forming globally- now I can honestly say I have a lot more 'faith' . I suggest a new more positively named thread called something like 'Gaining Faith in Darkcoin all the time '
 

moli

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Funny because in January/February I was intrigued by the darkcoin concept, but I could not say I had much faith after all there were many alt coin releases coming from everywhere. But now having seen so much work with the RC releases/bug quoshing and a masternode system come online from nothing, an entire infrastructure forming globally- now I can honestly say I have a lot more 'faith' . I suggest a new more positively named thread called something like 'Gaining Faith in Darkcoin all the time '
Amen to that! Anyone else beside BelStar has lost faith in DRK? Send your DRK to me please. I will provide my DRK address asap!!! :D

CORRECTION: Actually, please send your DRK to flare, he deserves every DRK for every complaint out there.. and here's his address: XvKkW3NJFhTr9hcgbV8EQcGqbCCshDS8vj
 

Sub-Ether

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Evan didn't ask for a huge bounty to do anything or get started (unlike ethereum, mastercoin and others), in fact I don't remember him ask for anything at all. All I know is that he has put an awful lot of time and effort into this project from the start.
 

Abdulaziz

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I think Evan knows with bigger ideas comes bigger responsibilities, and he's right the main issue with the community I believe is the price that's what brings most people to crypto is to make money anyone says I'm investing in any coin including Bitcoin because of the idea being free is lying not only to others but to themselves as well.

That been said in terms of the possibilities nothing compares to what Darkcoin can and should reach. Evan is giving us updates all the time + fixing bugs without us paying him a penny instead we believe and that's what he needs now; close to making this an open source will bring big names to he's coin and we might get coders with bright idea's to help Evan make this even better which is very exciting to me.

I am not 4getting other's who helping including Fernando, Eltito and many more who are doing this for free you guys rock.

I'm not good with computers so I have no idea what technical problems are and how to fix them but if I'm lost in a desert and I see a man traces in the desert that's enough evidence that someone was there and if Evan keeps he's updates and actual tests are going on that's enough reason for me to believe in this as an investor 1st and in it's fundamentals 2nd.
 
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Ignition75

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How can you be losing faith because of a temporary price slump?

Price is merely one indicator of performance and it's heavily open to manipulation.

Low prices are a blessing, enjoy them while you can.
 

Ignition75

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OK I went back and read the whole thread, I still think it's about the price, I don't think you would have been typing all that up if DRK was worth $50 right now.

Still, it's important you voice your concerns and it seems like they've been discussed out fairly well.

I personally think we are doing amazingly for an 8 month old project, we've got a solution focused dev that doesn't give a toss about marketing, how awesome is that???

I personally couldn't be happier and when Evan and the team feel they are happy with the product to an extent that it's time to market, buckle in, put on a safety helmet and have a nice bottle of something handy :D
 

David

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I agree with everything said above, but it's the same song from the same hymn sheet. How do you fix it? We seem to be good at talking about the issues and fixes but not actually fixing it
My #1 issue is communication--both ways.

It's easy to forget that communication is a two-way street. Evan doesn't have time to read every post here, let alone on BCT, so we need people to take the information, filter it, and pass the relevant parts to him. Why don't we get eltito to select a couple of volunteers to keep up with the BCT thread, and another volunteer to keep up with community posts here. They could send daily or twice-weekly summaries to eltito, who could further distill them into actionable information to help Evan. That would make sure Evan gets the relevant information (important new ideas, problems that for some reason aren't or can't be documented in Jira, important non-code questions that need to be answered, media inquiries, etc.)

Secondly, once Evan or his designee comes up with a response to the community's issues and questions, they could post a summary (weekly? biweekly?).

Third, like a previous poster said, update us weekly or biweekly even if there is "nothing to report." We understand that you might not have solutions yet, but let us at least know what you are working on and have been working on. Got a particularly thorny problem that you haven't solved yet? No problem, tell us what you're working on and that you'll get us more info once you've figured it out. As a history professor (part time), I can tell you that people truly respect an "I don't know, but I'll find out" answer.

P.S. If I can make one more suggestion: make it a policy that all future RC updates have to run bug-free on testnet for 48-72 hours. I understand that not all problems can be predicted and fixed on test...there are some things that only come to light on mainnet. But why not make sure that all testnet issues are completely fixed and everything runs smoothly for a brief period, before introducing to mainnet?
 
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NewJack

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My #1 issue is communication--both ways.

Why don't we get eltito to select a couple of volunteers to keep up with the BCT thread, and another volunteer to keep up with community posts here.
I think the system would be stronger if, instead of volunteers, people were paid in DRK. This to me would strengthen the currency as a viable medium of exchange, rather than a pump and dump investment vehicle.
 

David

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I think the system would be stronger if, instead of volunteers, people were paid in DRK. This to me would strengthen the currency as a viable medium of exchange, rather than a pump and dump investment vehicle.
That would be great, except for the problem of who would pay them? And donations are notoriously unreliable to fund actual paid positions...
 

NewJack

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That would be great, except for the problem of who would pay them? And donations are notoriously unreliable to fund actual paid positions...
How about the numerous people that have darkcoins on this forum? Create positions, and fund them via people on the forum. If people don't believe in the project enough to fund development, then what kind of coin do you really have... a real means of transaction backed with faith and effort, or a pump and dump?
 

stonehedge

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How about the numerous people that have darkcoins on this forum? Create positions, and fund them via people on the forum. If people don't believe in the project enough to fund development, then what kind of coin do you really have... a real means of transaction backed with faith and effort, or a pump and dump?
I really don't think there is a link between how much the dev team and testing community put into Darkcoin and immediate renumeration.
 

David

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How about the numerous people that have darkcoins on this forum? Create positions, and fund them via people on the forum. If people don't believe in the project enough to fund development, then what kind of coin do you really have... a real means of transaction backed with faith and effort, or a pump and dump?
As I said before, donation-based schemes don't usually raise that much money. Tragedy of the commons.
 

NewJack

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As I said before, donation-based schemes don't usually raise that much money. Tragedy of the commons.
I also don't think a "donation" model works very well in this case. That is why I think setting up paid positions, specifically paid in DRK, is the way to go.

Like any other Foundation, certain jobs and positions are set up and paid for. So if there are 4 million darkcoins in peoples wallets (and surely the Foundation members have some of these) then shouldn't they fund the Foundation and its operation? Or perhaps one of these "whales" interested in seeing their investment grow? Developers are already "funding" with their time, but this way they distribute the workload, quicken development, and further solidify the coin. The development stage now seems to need more people not necessarily involved with actual coding.

I am guessing that at this stage of development (unlike the previous stages) you have to spend DRK to make DRK.
 

tungfa

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I also don't think a "donation" model works very well in this case. That is why I think setting up paid positions, specifically paid in DRK, is the way to go.

Like any other Foundation, certain jobs and positions are set up and paid for. So if there are 4 million darkcoins in peoples wallets (and surely the Foundation members have some of these) then shouldn't they fund the Foundation and its operation? Or perhaps one of these "whales" interested in seeing their investment grow? Developers are already "funding" with their time, but this way they distribute the workload, quicken development, and further solidify the coin. The development stage now seems to need more people not necessarily involved with actual coding.

I am guessing that at this stage of development (unlike the previous stages) you have to spend DRK to make DRK.

I agree that certain jobs might require payment,
but i am not sure if we are at that stage yet !
I think it is on the community to show some backbone and put in some work ! That is how it is supposed to work in the Crypto World !
Look at Doge coin, there is no money in the whole sceem and the community is doing more work than in any other coin/ they only exhist because of their community !
Let show them what we can do !

I started a new thread as suggested for ideas and a list of things we (the community) should try to get in place before the next RC !
Please check it out, I invited you all as well (so you can find it),
no pressure, but it would be great to see you there !
https://darkcointalk.org/threads/fo...things-to-have-in-place-for-the-next-rc.2238/
 
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falsealarm_bf

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I can't believe we are back to discussing the same topics/issues that were previously discussed and supposedly resolved months ago. Communication plans, roles and responsibilities, paid positions, etc. were all, though unofficially, discussed, decided on and contributed towards by the Core Team. Excuse my language but there is something "fucking" inherently wrong going on with the way things are progressing with this coin outside of software development. There is a decent development team fully engaged in moving the technology further however there is near zero progress elsewhere which increasingly wastes great opportunities in real life implementation. What happened to the core team of community volunteers? Though not with official titles, this group had great promise but seems to have been brushed aside at one point. I had months ago "shouted" the need for a Foundation to help guide all towers contributing to the development of this coin, publicly speak for its direction, respond to questions, etc., and was happy to hear one was established but even that seems to have been done haphazardly. To this day, there has not been an official announcement of it. There is no clear information on how the directors were chosen, what their past accomplishments were, what the mission of the foundation is, what are the short term plans, etc. I understand this is "Evan's" coin and he can choose to drive it to the ground if he chooses to but if the sake of many investors are taken slightly into consideration, it's time for someone or some group with proper business sense to take reign, develop and communicate a path, and build some excitement around this coin again.

P.s. No, I am not an angry investor who has lost money on DRK. I am simply disappointed in the missed opportunities.
 
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stonehedge

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I can't believe we are back to discussing the same topics/issues that were previously discussed and supposedly resolved months ago. Communication plans, roles and responsibilities, paid positions, etc. were all, though unofficially, discussed, decided on and contributed towards by the Core Team. Excuse my language but there is something "fucking" inherently wrong going on with the way things are progressing with this coin outside of software development. There is a decent development team fully engaged in moving the technology further however there is near zero progress elsewhere which increasingly wastes great opportunities in real life implementation. What happened to the core team of community volunteers? Though not with official titles, this group had great promise but seems to have been brushed aside at one point. I had months ago "shouted" the need for a Foundation to help guide all towers contributing to the development of this coin, publicly speak for its direction, respond to questions, etc., and was happy to hear one was established but even that seems to have been done haphazardly. To this day, there has not been an official announcement of it. There is no clear information on how the directors were chosen, what their past accomplishments were, what the mission of the foundation is, what are the short term plans, etc. I understand this is "Evan's" coin and he can choose to drive it to the ground if he chooses to but if the sake of many investors are taken slightly into consideration, it's time for someone or some group with proper business sense to take reign, develop and communicate a path, and build some excitement around this coin again.

P.s. No, I am not an angry investor who has lost money on DRK. I am simply disappointed in the missed opportunities.

Missed opportunities maybe but it is still early enough to put things right!