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I'm not getting the Alt Thirty Six business... you just need a phone to start accepting Dash tomorro

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RGXDK, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    Sorry for the stupid question, but why can't dispensaries just start accepting Dash tomorrow? All they need is a mobile phone. Suppliers need to accept Dash too? Given them a mobile phone.

    I'm clearly missing something and it should be really obvious, but I am not getting it. Why do dispensaries need Alt Thirty Six anyway? Customers that walk into a dispensary already pay with cash, what incentive could they possibly offer that would convince someone to learn about crypto and use a digital currency to pay, when they can just pay with the cash they have in hand?
     
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  2. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    that is exactly the thing ..
    customers pay in cash - dispensary losses 15% by getting that cash into the bank
    what to do
    change to crypto - sure
    how do u convert your customers to Dash / crypto ?
    supply a proper different payment way ... u walk into the dispensary - your phone goes ping with a message the sec u walk in “20% off for mountain kush if u pay in Dash”
    what is the newbie customer (none crypto guy) supposed to do now ?
    u need to supply a way to use that Dash / crypto :
    - ATM - the customer actually can get Dash at the dispensary (otherwise he could not use it)
    - PoS system at cashier - customer pays in Dash , this has to go into the system / incl Taxes and everything (bookkeeping software). we are not talking about little pot dealers at the strewtcorner here , this is a legal huge business and has to be supplied with bookkeeping software and the likes for their supply chain + tax and such

    using a phone and done was last year - now we (and the whole crypto scene) have to step up our game if we want to be taken serious and be that competition for Visa and MasterCard

    this is a great Proof of Concept in a cointained successful industry ... this is great chance for Dash to show whatbit is capable of and show what it really can do in daily live .
    legal marijuana or not - it is all about PoC (for me) - if this works here (we know it does , but normal people do not and still doubt crypto) , we have proven it can work anywhere .... and that is what it is all about ;)
     
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  3. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    Here's what a proof of concept looks like: just allow customers to pay with Dash and see how that goes. Give 20% off. It can be implemented tomorrow and we'll see right away if it works or not. You don't need any bookkeeping software, just hire an accountant to do it. The $250k+ we've given them is not a proof of concept. I still don't understand what their deal is, what value exactly are they bringing. The dispensary won't be able to do anything with the Dash it receives. It has to pay employees, suppliers, buy furniture, pay electricity etc, and none of those things can be paid with Dash.

    Another point. You said we're doing this because the dispensary is losing 15% by transacting with cash (I would really challenge this but let's assume it is right), but it will give a 20% discount if you pay with this crypto currency that no one has head of? How is giving a 20% discount better than losing 15%?
     
  4. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    @RGXDK Just speaking for myself.. I would be happy to accept 80% in crypto than have 85% in useless cash!
     
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  5. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    "Here's what a proof ...."
    sure but who will you convert to crypto then ?
    aren't we doing all this already (mobile apps) and see how many - or not merchants we have
    to convert on a bigger scale (industries /corporations/ chain stores/...) u need to be implemented with a professional payment guy
    he will push this system out to his customers and that is how you get real traction
    (if create your own tiny pos system, you then still have to go from door to door and are still not getting anywhere as you are running yourself to death)

    "Another point." .....
    sure that math does not go off - as i just gave an example - nothing else ;)
     
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  6. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    @RGXDK it's expensive for these guys to hold and move cash i.e. physical security. It's a whole other world.
     
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  7. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    Let's assume customers will use Dash instead of Cash (they won't), because it's more convenient or cheaper (it isn't), because the dispensary will give them a discount (which they don't have an incentive to). What is the dispensary going to do with the Dash? Can't pay employees, can't pay supplier, can't pay utilities, can't pay taxes.
     
  8. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    @RGXDK I don't want to defend Alt36 vehemently but here we are with an opportunity to support an entire ecosystem from raw suppliers to end users where the banking system is completely bypassed. I think this is the big picture, a case study that we can take to other sectors.
     
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  9. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    Imagine that the self serve checkout counter (which looks a lot like every other checkout counter you've seen) just happens to have an integrated ATM. If we wanted to, and didn't tell the customer anything, they might not even realize they just used Dash (possibly a slight exaggeration, and we don't really want that anyway.)

    Bob walks in with cash, rings his brownies up on the self serve checkout and walks out with his pot brownies. This accomplishes several things:

    1. This is about the most painless, frictionless method of introducing the general population to the idea and functionality of Dash. We can educate them as much as we want during that shopping/buying/checking out process. Let's call that the front end. That by itself is pretty significant. And they intend to use the profit from the ATM network to buy and install more ATM's.

    2. To me, the bigger half is the back end. We just liberated the dispensary, and the suppliers, and the wholesalers, and the growers from being forced to use paper cash. Using cash in those amounts is a huge and expensive burden on the whole system. Vaults, armored trucks, risk of robbery, exposing your employees to the temptation of big piles of cash.

    How do you write a check to your supplier? How does the supplier pay the wholesaler? How does the wholesaler pay the grower? You can't, not with a check or bank transfer. Not easily anyway. If you think up little tricks to get all that cash in the bank without alerting the bank that it's "drug money", you could very easily run afoul of "structuring" laws. Structuring is an intentional way of avoiding bank and government scrutiny with unusual cash deposits.

    The Feds can ruin your life and take everything you own and there isn't much you can do about it if you get caught structuring. You know about civil forfeiture? That's where they just take your money if they happen to pull you over for a broken tail light and "discover" that you have cash in the car. You don't even have to be convicted of a crime. Shit, you don't even have to be charged with a crime. What's to prevent some unscrupulous law enforcement department to just follow the owners and employee's cars leaving the dispensary? "Oh hey, what's in that bag? That looks suspicious." The department that finds and steals the money usually get to keep a big chunk of it to use however they see fit in the department.

    The whole banking system in the U.S. is forbidden to touch the cannabis industry in any way, shape or form. Once they have the Dash, why would they want to touch fiat? The whole vertically integrated industry runs on Dash. Sure, there are still instances where they will have to turn Dash into fiat, maybe to pay insurance or whatever. But they have reduced their need to deal with paper money and banks by 90%.

    3. Once we have done the proof of concept for a checkout station that seamlessly allows the customer to buy and use Dash right there on the spot, how many industries might like to try that model?

    4. Once a significant portion of the cannabis industry adopts Dash, demand goes up, price goes up, transaction volume goes up, everything goes up. That's a 6.7 Billion dollar industry.
     
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  10. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    Yes, can you define it in more details please. I still don't get it how exactly are we "supporting an entire ecosystem" and what exactly is Alt36 offering that requires 6 months and $250,000 of our budget. Customers can pay with Dash TODAY, Suppliers can be paid with Dash TODAY and Dispensaries can use cash to buy Dash TODAY.
     
  11. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    Really? How would they buy the Dash with huge stacks of cash?
     
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  12. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest


    There are so many problems with these arguments.

    >2. To me, the bigger half is the back end. We just liberated the dispensary, and the suppliers, and the wholesalers, and the growers from being forced to use paper cash.

    Dispensaries can buy any crypto with cash TODAY. If this is such an amazing solution for them, why aren't they doing it already?

    > 1. This is about the most painless, frictionless method of introducing the general population to the idea and functionality of Dash.

    I don't see how this is educating anyone. When I swipe my credit card I am not being educated on how credit cards work.

    > How do you write a check to your supplier? How does the supplier pay the wholesaler? How does the wholesaler pay the grower? You can't, not with a check or bank transfer.

    That is exactly what I have asked 3 times in this thread and no one has answered so far. What magical thing is Alt36 doing that will allow the dispensary to pay for furniture, electricity, water, employees with Dash?

    > The Feds can ruin your life and take everything you own and there isn't much you can do about it if you get caught structuring. You know about civil forfeiture?

    Yes, and why aren't dispensaries just buying crypto then?

    > Sure, there are still instances where they will have to turn Dash into fiat, maybe to pay insurance or whatever. But they have reduced their need to deal with paper money and banks by 90%.

    Where are you getting this from? I am disputing this 90% as it looks like it came out of nowhere without any factual evidence.
     
  13. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    How would they buy the Dash with big stacks of paper money today, as you advocate?

    Did you read the whole Alt-36 proposal? They discussed their plans to integrate the whole industry, not just the front end facing the customer.
     
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  14. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    Why would they anyway? You can't run a business with crypto currency. The "useless cash" mentioned by GrandMasterDash is needed to pay for EVERYTHING. "They discussed their plans to integrate the whole industry". I keep reading these vague and imprecise terms with made up numbers. How exactly?

    If crypto was even remotely useful for dispensaries sure they would be using it right now? At least a little bit? All you need is a phone. There are bitcoin ATMS inside dispensaries in california, do you know what they are used for? To buy bitcoin with Cash. They come in, buy bitcoin, then walk away. To imagine this would be any different with Dash is just wishful thinking.
     
  15. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    Let's address one topic at a time. You said:

    Suppliers can be paid with Dash TODAY and Dispensaries can use cash to buy Dash TODAY.

    How do they buy 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars worth of Dash, with big piles of cash TODAY?
     
  16. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    I would like if you actually addressed my points too, I've made many above and you just ignored them.

    A) Why would they? What would a dispensary do with $100k in Dash? It can't use for anything.

    B) Customers can already pay with crypto. All the dispensaries need is a phone. Why aren't they doing it?

    C) There are already crypto ATMs in dispensaries. No one uses them. And when they do use it, it's not to pay for the order, it's to buy crypto.

    D) We are paying > $250k USD for what exactly? All any company needs to start accepting crypto is a phone.

    E) If crypto was such a good deal for dispensaries, they would ALREADY be offering discounts. They aren't, because it isn't.

    Now to answer your question, they can buy crypto over the counter, they can also buy on localbitcoins.com for example. I see your point that they wouldn't be able to buy much, but if that's the case then that they need is a way to buy more crypto, and it has nothing to do with Dash or with Alt36.
     
  17. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    A) This is an odd opinion from a person who believes so much in Dash, Digital Cash, that they bought a masternode, but we'll set that aside.

    Why would they? Because, as several people including me have pointed out, using paper cash is risky, troublesome and incurs significant costs to store and transport. Furthermore, how do you send paper money to your supplier?

    B) Customers cannot pay with with Dash if they don't know about Dash and/or if they don't own any Dash. What percentage of their customers walk in with Dash right now? Name a number, even a reasonable guess.

    C) Why do you suppose no one uses the ATM's that are available now? 1.Don't even know what it is. 2. Only a small percentage of dispensaries have any crypto ATM, and an even smaller percent have a Dash enabled ATM, and what percentage of Dispensaries have a Dash only ATM right now? Name a reasonable guess. 3. The current process is cumbersome and adds one or several steps to the purchase process. Alt-36 is designing the Dash exclusive ATM's to be an integral part of the checkout process. It's so easy, your grandma could do it.

    D)Yes, it's easy to accept Dash right now. But didn't you say earlier that there was nothing you could do with Dash. It's easy, or it's impossible, which is it? Let's assume that it is easy, because hey, Dash = Digital Cash. What percentage of the patrons that walk in right now today have Dash in their possession? If you can prove that it is in excess of 2%, I will buy you the finest cheeseburger in town. So the reason the simple act of "accepting Dash" with an app on a phone is woefully inadequate is because 98+% of the customer base doesn't have Dash. That would accomplish nothing. It would be a rounding error on their cash flow.

    We are paying Alt-36 to insert Dash into the process so the customer can instantly and without friction or hassle, buy Dash instantly, and use it to pay for their goodies, instantly. Potentially every customer could become a regular user of Dash. Once we prove the concept of an ATM that makes buying and using Dash right on the spot, easily, that model applies to a lot of industries.

    We are also paying Alt-36 to work all the kinks out in the complex regulatory environment so we can reproduce the model over and over and over in many sectors. We are paying Alt-36 for a turnkey system that allows for all the other things a business has to do that is currently difficult or impossible with cash. And I notice you skipped over my question about how they currently pay their supplier or anybody else that is not geographically close.

    And thank you. At last you have answered my question. In the current environment, it is impractical, in reality it is impossible to buy the amount of Dash that the industry needs to get out of the cash business. That's what we're paying Alt-36 for.
     
  18. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    And what exactly would a dispensary do with $1mn in Dash? I've asked it a few times already. It can't pay employees, suppliers, bills, taxes ...

    Zero.

    Because using cash is easier and there are no incentives to change. Zero dispensaries have a Dash ATM. Going to ask again... let's imagine everyone pays with Dash... yay... now what is the dispensary going to do with $1mn in Dash? It can't pay employees, suppliers, bills, taxes ...


    The % is zero.

    So we're paying them for the ATM? It looks like the ATM is the key here. Do you agree that the ATM does the function of an exchange? So we are paying Alt36 for an ATM network? I believe we already have Dash ATMs, and we've had them for a long time. What "complex regulatory environment" are they working out that hasn't already been worked out by the company that did the previous Dash ATMs?

    Answering your question, they would have to exchange cash physically if cash was the only option. Still way better than Dash or any crypto.
     
  19. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    OK, last round.



    Alt-36 is working with the whole industry. The retailers need it and want it, the distributors need it and want it, the wholesalers need it and want it, and the growers need it and want it. Alt-36 is going to (largely) allow them to get away from paper cash, and close the loop so the industry can use Dash where it's appropriate, and USD (not paper cash) when they need that.



    And they're not just ATM's, they're ATM's seamlessly integrated into the point of sale/checkout system. There is no extra step. Using cash will not be easier. To them, it will look look and feel like using cash, but Dash serves as the intermediary in the checkout system.



    You concede that virtually none of the patrons will walk in with Dash. So by your proposed system where they just put the app on their phone and "start accepting Dash tomorrow", this will have zero impact on the Dash ecosystem, and it will have zero impact on the cannabis industry. That sounds like giving up and not even trying.



    The complex regulatory part that makes it difficult for them to go from Dash to USD without breaking laws, for the places that are appropriate for USD instruments.



    While this was a pleasant exercise, it serves no purpose. The proposal has passed, with some of the highest numbers ever. So your fear, uncertainty, doubt, and flagrant ignorance of the proposal accomplishes nothing. Just out of curiosity, why do you do it? It cannot stop the proposal. The sour grapes certainly does nothing for the community.



    If you hold such a low opinion about the use case for Dash, I would recommend that you sell your masternode before the bubble pops.
     
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  20. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    @RGXDK Don't worry too much about it. The thing is, dash is moving beyond hobbycoin. If you (or me) can't quite grasp a proposal, it's not necessarily useless or money wasted. Sometimes it takes a different callibre of person / team. Being a mechanic doesn't automatically qualify you to build and run Tesla Inc. Sometimes we'll get it, other times not. Just have a little faith.
     
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  21. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    The average IQ of Extracurricular Pharmaceutical Enthusiasts is well below that of those who abstain from such indulgences... I get what their "solution" is, i just don't see how it's good for DASH, or how it can apply to grown-ups in the real world.

    I don't bother voting, or even looking at proposals anymore. That entire aspect of DASH is dead. Specifically because of retardation like this. Talking about it is pointless, no one is going to listen.

    You may as well try to explain math to a cat. The Alt36 bit is a terrible idea, and, yes, I understand exactly what it does.

    But it's a done deal. And DASH will embarrass itself even if the project succeeds... It's hilarious to watch. MNOs finally ran out of ways to beclown themselves approving scam proposals (primarily because it became too expensive to submit them, not because MNOs would stop being idiots), so they chose a project who's success is likely to be more detrimental than if it were just another embarrassing scam...
     
    #21 camosoul, Oct 19, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  22. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    I thought you were libertarian-ish? You're OK with the Feds telling people who can have access to banking and who doesn't?
    And legalizing/decriminalizing/normalizing cannabis reduces the illicit/crime problem in the old model. And reduces use among teens, and cuts down on the ridiculous practice of putting people in jail for cannabis.

    And surely you recognize that the integrated ATM/checkout model would easily translate to other industries...

    But, as you note, it's passed anyway, so let's get on with it.
     
  23. jimbursch

    jimbursch Active Member

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    @RGXDK is asking clear questions and insisting on clear answers. We need more MNOs like that.

    The reason deals like this Alt-36 thing exist now is because, in Dash's current state, it is VERY difficult to integrate into business processes.

    I know because I have integrated Dash into Dash Messaging and it has not been easy. Sorry to say it, but Dash Core is a little buggy, If you are not careful, it can give you data that will screw up your accounting.

    Basically we are all just sitting around waiting for Evolution, and hoping for a little incremental improvements until then.
     
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  24. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Did I say that? Please read the message that you quoted in it's entirety in your own post, and find the part where I wanted banking functions to be regulated.

    I want banks extinct. But, banks are the oldest Cloud. People have been putting their money, their most valuable possession, in banks since forever. The suggestions that you can't take care of your own shit has been brainwashed into them for centuries. The last people on Earth that are going to figure this out, are the pot-head rebels who think cash is king... Government paper. What rebels they truly are.... Fucking stupid!

    I'm saying that being inundated with the chronically stupid (pun intended) doesn't generally lead to good ideas.

    You're telling me it took 8 years to come up with this idea, and that one guy can't do it in an afternoon, for free just cuz he thinks it would be fun?

    The is the sort of stuff that non-pot-heads manage to do by accident just to see how it works.

    But, they need years and millions to maybe...

    I had something better than this worked out 2 years ago, but the DASHtards stabbed me in the back at the behest of The Usual Suspects. Who still haven't done shit, and shut off IX just as a similar project to my own was about to go live... Due to a "recently discovered" zero-day bug that hasn't been used, but was kept in the back pocket as a last ditch to prevent anyone from enabling an IX based service before "they" do... Which, at this point, is still not even on the radar... I'm absolutely worthless at writing and auditing code, and I saw this problem from the beginning. Suddenly, they care? No, it's just another paid-for IX-based proposal sabotaged.

    That's 2 real-world usable IX proposals that were 100% ready to go, and The Usual Suspects sabotaged them.

    The corrupt infighting on this project, at it's own expense, is fucking disgusting. They're willing to destroy it if they can't have all the glory for themselves... 2 years. 2. Fucking. Years. That's the head start now lost. All in the name of petty nerd egos.

    But, lets talk about weed. That's way funner... Or whatever.

    The common thread?

    Both of the previously sabotaged IX-enabled payment projects were run by gun-toting conservative types. The DASH leadership is extreme left-fringe. They reserve the project only for "their own kind," and will not allow anyone with a differing political slant to participate. Every DASH meeting or speech or important gathering of any kind has been carefully placed in an exceptionally conservative-hostile locale. Leftist wack-a-doodles ONLY. Everyone else will be fucked over.

    I give zero fucks if you want to spoke weed. Or if you're smart enough to bake it into pills with cocoa butter and lecithin to preserve it, because smoking and vaping the essential oils destroys most of the active elements that induce the desired effects... I want you to have that freedom. But, what about mine? This project draws in more people hostile to basic human rights, under the false guise of "but, weed bro!"

    You're right to realize that it's extremely biased and partisan, but I'm not the one bringing that bias.

    Any project presented by productive conservative type has been stonewalled and sabotaged. We're the people who get shit done (and have), and we're not welcome. DASH cut's off it nose to spite it's face by being un-apologetically attached to extreme left-fringe agenda politics, and asserting prejudices based upon it.

    At no point did I even hint or suggest at the idea of regulating banking functions to any class or person. Yet, you presented the idea as if I were that guy... If I could nuke every bank and government building right now, I so fucking would. But, apparently, I want the pot heads to suffer... Or something... I'm probably a homophobic ammosexual patriarchal etc, blah blah blah, too... Call names at the people you hate, totally baseless, pretend they're the ones with the problem...

    I know all too well the effects of partisan banking discrimination. The entire Gun Industry still suffers under the obnoxious lies of Project Choke Point. A Liberal Obama policy that artificially and fraudulently labels the MOST verifiable transactions that occur in the USA as "high risk" simply to deny card processing and banking facilities to anyone even marginally involved in the firearms business. I dare you to find a stupid liberal pothead that doesn't rally behind this blatant abuse of power and true fascism. The Alt36 proposal would work great for the Gun Industry, too! And it'd face a lot less resistance. And the people are smart enough to actually understand it. But will they go there? Nope. Political agenda based on lies and hate is more important.

    Accusing me of being that guy? The aggressor pretends to be the victim, every fucking time... Yeah, I'm the great oppressor, the guy who thinks we should all have guns.

    How can I possibly oppress you when I'm handing you a loaded gun? Yeah, I'm totally the bad guy...

    Which one of these things expresses trust, solidarity, and freedom?

    1) Handing you a loaded gun
    2) Handing you a mind altering substance that will make you useless and stupid, and possibly incapacitated, for several hours. Along with recommendations to use it in the least effective manner with the most negative health side effects.
     
    #24 camosoul, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  25. LostInSpace

    LostInSpace Active Member

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    Here is a nice article explaining the things already mentioned several times in this thread: https://www.cointelegraph.com/news/digital-currency-looks-to-solve-cannabis-industrys-cash-problem

    Not really sure why you don't get it, I wouldn't have voted for super expensive proposals either, but now that it is happening, all we can hope it works out nicely.
     
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  26. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    I just don't know how else to explain it. The text below is from the article you sent, that you think "explains" anything.

    "The Dash network, through its decentralized self-funding mechanism, is paying the company $496,000 to integrate Dash as a payment option in the cannabis industry’s point of sale (POS) systems."
    You read this and you think to yourself "Oh, that explains the things already mentioned several times in this thread". I read it and I realize it for what it is: vague and imprecise. It does not explain anything. I can "integrate" any store with Dash tomorrow with just a phone. If that's not what is meant by "integrate" then I am asking for clarification. What king of integration exactly are we doing that requires $400k? How is $1mn in Dash better to the dispensary than $1mn in Cash? Try doing payrol, taxes, paying suppliers, furniture, security etc with a crypto currency.
     
    #26 RGXDK, Oct 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2017
  27. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    man ....
    it has really been explained
    go back to the 1st post and read one more time
    i am giving up on this !
     
  28. RGXDK

    RGXDK Guest

    Yes let's leave it as it doesn't matter anymore. Thanks for all your replies though.
     
  29. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    I'm not sure I completely understand all of it either,. but it's clear at this point we are in "wait and see" mode.
     
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  30. imjustsayintho

    imjustsayintho New Member

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    Get ready to see..
     

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