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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by camosoul, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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  2. halso

    halso Active Member

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    Hey man, are u ok?
     
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  3. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    I'm fine, haven't slept, been up all night working on this and other more important things, a bit grumpy, disappointed in DASH losers letting features rot on the vine as other startup coins rip it off.... But yeah, just fine... :p
     
    #3 camosoul, Jun 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  4. Super8

    Super8 Active Member

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    Let's not beat ourselves up. If other startup coins are ripping us off, do you beleive they making significantly more progress with vendor adoption than Dash?

    The key to mass vendor adoption is a bit like finding the holy grail. I mean cmon, not even Bitcoin has widespread vendor adoption yet. People with bitcoins are holding onto them (ponzi trolls, I think you would call them) and very few individuals are attempting to use them for everyday purchases, (unless their name is Andreas perhaps...)

    So, this holy grail of Vendor adoption will be gradual and slow until a kind of tipping point is reached. Think about the adoption of email, it was tremendously slow at first, but when ppl had to start using it for work, and then the advent of cheapish home PCs and then Internet 2.0 and social media sites and then smart phones... It has become ubiquitous.

    However, in the early years there was not really a compelling enough case to use email for most people. (How soon we forget these things!)

    We need a societal shift of some description for the need to use crypto instead of fiat to occur. Now unlike the early email years, we have the technical infrastructure, the Internet enabled devices, but perhaps something else needs to fall into place.... (Economic crash, bank bail-ins perhaps?)

    Who knows?

    So, let's keep spreading the word, the best we can, and keep the 'faith' so to speak, AND try to accept that ppl are genuinely doing their best in all their endeavours with Dash. We do have some very bright and intelligent ppl here. Please let's not in-fight with each other. We just all need to keep on, keeping on!

    Cheers all,

    Super8.
     
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  5. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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  6. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Yes.

    And, believe has nothing to do with it.

    All they have to do is more than absolutely nothing.
    Maybe you don't understand it, but I do.
    All of these things have already happened, multiple times. Crypto is blocking itself by being too socialist to comprehend the barriers it creates for itself.
    Me.
    It doesn't matter how many people you tell if you block them from using it.

    This is not some cryptic, unsolvable mystery. It only appears that way to socialists.

    DASH is behaving like a cartoon... Put foot on door, grab door knob, pull hard while pushing hard with foot...

    We want adoption, but we must fight as hard as we can to prevent adoption!
     
  7. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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  8. Super8

    Super8 Active Member

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    Hahaha... If you (are the only one) who has the answer to mass adoption then why don't YOU do something about it?

    (Rather than blaming the shortcomings of those you consider as less capable than yourself?)

    Let's be real here. No one person has the answer to this conundrum.

    The Cypress bail-in was the first mass media event in which Bitcoin came to be known to a wider audience. But the infrastructure for mass adoption was not yet in place....

    Each time something like this happens the momentum builds. Society will gradually move towards crypto, probably first as ppl start using it to send value to each other, and then as this trend grows, merchants will want to adopt it in ever greater numbers as they spot a market opportunity to sell their goods to ppl holding crypto.

    The growth will be organic, but it will be given massive shots in the arm by economic shocks and other as yet unforeseen events along the way.

    Btc may have the first mover advantage for generic crypto... But Dash has the first mover advantage for crypto 2.0 with privacy and instantsend, so our time is acoming...

    You can agree or disagree with my analysis, and not a fuck do I give ;-)

    You are crabby, as noted by others, but it's an endearing quality to your personality. I just find it regrettable that the seething resentment which bubbles to the surface in your missives could undermine the confidence of visitors to this forum who are considering joining our community and investing in Dash. :)
     
    #8 Super8, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  9. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    I agree on the point of giving zero fucks.

    :p
     
  10. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    8x channels in the level shifter and 8x relay board, in case anything blows out, you can just swap wires to any of the 6 spares already in there...

    No noise decoupling caps on the supplies, or current limit resistors on the signal wires... Not good form, but it works.
     
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  11. itscrazybro

    itscrazybro Active Member
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    Hey @camosoul, the video appears to be private.
     
  12. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Camera doesn't respond fast enough, but the lights do blink, and you can hear the relays.

    @oaxaca; If the relays are hooked up backwards, just reverse the blue and green wires on the relay board.
     
    #12 camosoul, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
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  13. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Shipping was confirmed today. It leaves for The Peoples' Republik of Kommiefornia on Friday. @oaxaca has his work cut out with that screen deal... I included most of the old hardware that I rigged it up with last time. Some was lost, and so was the plexi, when a strap broke on the way home and it fell over... Also, the custom-deliberately-broke HDMI cable which is the only cable that will work with it in that configuration. Worst case, it could be rigged up the same way I had rigged it up. But, it really does need a bezel mount... I would have done it on my CnC months ago, and this thing already spruced up and ready to go, but since I was told to fuck off by the majority of the community, I did! Don't blame me for getting what you wished for... Fuckin' socialist brats...

     
    #13 camosoul, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
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  14. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    I wasn't done yet, Mr. Fasty McFasterson! ;-)
     
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  15. acidburn

    acidburn Active Member

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    So you think we're doomed?
     
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  16. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
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    Camo is right, we need retail adoption. We need to create hardware that can be given to anyone willing to try accepting Dash, and we need to start promoting our product to merchants. They're not going to come look for us for the most part. We should create a real solution, try it out in a few places, then take that data and approach a chain store, make it pretty much cost free for that chain store to implement it then advertise, promote, have festivals at locations where it's being implemented etc.... Camo and crew had a plan for that a year ago, but the community didn't support it. I just wish they hadn't given up so easily. They should keep pushing. They should come up with a new plan and try again. I'd do it if I had any skills :p

    All this takes time to do, and should already have started. Eventually, when Evo comes out, we should be in a position to open on a massive scale (or massive for crypto) I'd target a big company like McDonalds and 7-11 near and inside International Airports. But no preporation means we won't be ready. Our core team can not do this. This takes completely different skills.

    Sure, Bitcoin never did this, but bitcoin is myopic and horribly mismanaged and manipulated by outside parties. Dash is unique. Dash can do this, and be successful.
     
    #16 TanteStefana, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  17. toknormal

    toknormal Active Member

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    I'd love to know what "retail adoption" means.

    1. Does that mean that retailers price their goods in Dash ?
    2. Use the Dash blockchain as the transport mechanism for all their trades ?
    3. Use the Dash blockchain as the clearing layer for all their trades ?

    Lets examine each one of these in turn.

    1. We already know that retailers can no longer price their goods in a single denomination. Any vendor that trades across national boundaries can express their prices in any denomination the customer likes at the flick of a pop-up menu and that will always be the prevailing regional currency of the customer - i.e. a fiat currency

    2. An SQL Server is a million times faster, more flexible, and more reliable than any blockchain.

    3. Viable if the retailer can assume nobody has bank accounts any longer and their entire customer base holds their wealth in Dash

    i.e. retail adoption is in the "forget it" category of cryptocurrency targets I would say. You can't be both a store of value and a medium of exchange - the two things are in conflict because a store of value needs to gain against the medium of exchange if it is to justify its label. Nobody cares what currency they use for day to day transactions as long as they have some other means for preserving their wealth. Thats why people don't pay for their cornflakes with gold bars or stocks and shares.

    What Dash needs isn't retail adoption, it's acceptance as a capital asset. That takes 2 things:

    A. Consolidation of its monetary properties
    B. Time

    For example, lets say you had a credit card which you could charge with Dash. Then you'd actually be spending Dash but all your transactions are denominated in the prevailing vendor currency. No need for "retail adoption" - it's already there.
     
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  18. itscrazybro

    itscrazybro Active Member
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    I fully agree with point 3. Once we have these debit cards then we have world wide retail adoption. For example, I don't use my bank anymore, I only use my Xapo bitcoin debit card. Once SpectroCoin or Shakepay release their physical cards that support Dash I will use a Dash debit card for everything.

    I do however see the benefits of merchant adoption where privacy or speed of confirmation is of concern. So things such as privacy centric services or online casino's where you want your money on the website at the speed of light so you can enter that tournament that is about to kick off. Cryptocurrency atm's will also be of benefit because currently if you are selling your bitcoin the operator either has to run on zero confirmations or make the customer wait around until they can collect their cash.

    There are many services that will benefit from accepting Dash directly because of InstantSend and PrivateSend, I think we should narrow our focus to these merchants and let the debit cards take care of the rest for the time being.
     
  19. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
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    I cautiously disagree Master. First of all, I believe Dash's purpose is more as a medium of exchange, though it works just as well as Bitcoin as a store of value (and far better than fiat). No, one doesn't pay for cornflakes with gold bars, stocks or shares. But that's because these things aren't practical to use as a medium of exchange. Thus, if you have extra funds, you could keep some Dash as a store of value and use the rest as a medium of exchange. But of course, you can't have your cake and eat it too - and that is the basis of an argument I'm trying to put together on how digital currencies can only be hoarded so long before they must be used to purchase necessities or perceived necessities (wants) and are thus slowly being moved from the hands of the large holders to the masses.

    Back to "what is retail adoption". This means to me, that a brick and mortar store will sell goods for Dash. They can use those Dash themselves, or send them immediately to an exchange for fiat, I don't care, but a customer can go into the store with their wallet and pay for what they want with Dash.

    I don't like the idea of a "Dash Visa" because you or the merchant are going to be charged fees to use it, and I simply think that defeats the purpose of crypto currencies, which should be cheap, instant, safe and easy to use with no middle man.

    But you are right, this will take time. Still, nobody knows which came first, the chicken or the egg, so I figure we'll have to push the origins a bit to get over the evolutionary hump with a nice quick mutation - creating merchant solutions and hope it brings customers :)
     
  20. toknormal

    toknormal Active Member

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    Ok. Maybe there is a case for retail adoption then if it becomes an acknowledged store of value. It's just that if you actually work in this industry you tend to get a different perspective on the practicalities of point of sale. eCommerce, for example, is just transferring numbers. It doesn't care what denomination those numbers represent - they're just numbers in a database, so talking about "adoption" of a specific medium of exchange sounds kind of meaningless from that perspective. It's like saying "we've got a new type of car - lets campaign for car parks to accept our car". Or like an exchange where all trades occur instantly regardless of what blockchain coin is being traded. Every currency pair on an exchange uses the exact same technology - the "Coin" being traded being simply a label on the trade. The blockchain may never be involved because there's only 1 withdrawal or deposit per 10,000 trades or something.

    As for zero-conf's and micro transactions, I imagine they'll just get handled by the Bitcoin Lightning network (for all my criticisms of it - it is likely to get launched soon).

    IMO whats needed is to focus on de-coupling the trade from the asset that backs it while retaining the 'cash' paradigm so that the backing asset remains transparent to the retailer. Bitpay sort of does that but it's quite clumsy and retailers need to explicitly sign up for it. It's a concept ahead of its time and we'll probably have to wait for the commerce/crypto field to mature before practical solutions emerge I think.

    The bar is currently set at a minimum service level whereby the retailer can set prices in any denomination they want and the customer can pay in any denomination they want - thats what we are competing with right now.

    Having said all that, lets now look at Dash's unique properties: Peer to Peer instantly cleared cash using blockchain-native technology. While this does not offer anything over current point of sale technology it DOES offer a huge amount over current clearing technology. So I can see the mileage in pursuing the 'social networking' market for example.

    There is also likely to be a sector that DOES want to do on chain realtime transactions where they don't want to use an off-chain system like exchanges or gambing sites do and where they need the trades to be fast enough for realtime response. Lets think why such a merchant would want that. A couple of things come to mind:

    1. they DON'T want their customers to have to create online accounts
    2. they DO want the trade to be irreversible - even in the event of keying errors in the payment
    3. they DON'T want the trade to be brokered
    4. they DO require at least eCommerce-class realtime performance (i.e. less than, say 10 second delay)

    If one can identify merchants with those requirements then one has one's adopters IMO ;)
     
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  21. acidburn

    acidburn Active Member

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    What will it take to get cam to try again?
     
  22. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    Tek Tok | A Thought On Merchant Adoption by toknormal via Dash Nation:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.dashnation.com/opinion/tek-tok-thought-merchant-adoption/

    #DashNation #IoM
     
  23. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Gimmie a node and I'll build 3 more without painting them white. At the moment, I don't have time for the total tear down at any price.
     
  24. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    I don't see this happening the same way you do.

    Right now we have banks going insolvent, countries not trusting other countries currency, huge devaluations in currency, capital controls. This isn't the same world 20 years ago. Merchants are getting charge backs with credit cards and slapped with fees. Cash is getting confiscated....for pretty much no reason if it is 'suspicious'. So the appeal of Bitcoin or Dash is that it gets around all of these problems. It is valuable because of the blockchain and doesn't depend on 3rd party trust.

    I think lightning will only be useful for a coinbase to bitpay transfer system or similar bitcoin exchange systems. Even then it will be a high fee or inclusive network. There is no way 2 servers with locked funds will risk double spends with huge capital without charging for it.

    Dash has a clear advantage. It is able to clear(InstantX lock) in about a second and function as a store of value(open blockchain and fungible with mixing). There is nothing else that can do either of these.

    The advantage is speed, lower cost, and no risk for customer or merchant. This is huge.
     
  25. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Because I'm such a people person...?
     
  26. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    edited thread title
    (i think it was time for that :rolleyes: )
     
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  27. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
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    Well, you could hide behind moocow and the rest, LOL. Lets face it, it requires more than programming, it needs a little bit of craftsmanship, and you got that in spades :)
     
  28. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    I tried to, ahem, "encourage" others to take a leap because its really not that hard and my time is more valuable than this job really needs. I mean no insult by it, but it takes a lot of money to encourage me to drop what I'm doing which is already profitable, to play DASH games. If you already made more money in one week than most people make all year, would say "Aw, screw all that, let me play with an old busted vending machine for nothing!" There are plenty of people here who have nothing better to do, they could easily do this and earn themselves, at the least, a sense of accomplishment...
     

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