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Greencandle robs treasury of 330 Dash.

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by Argon31, Jun 9, 2018.

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Is it okay for an escrow to keep leftover funds

  1. Yes, It is okay

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  2. No, that's wrong

    5 vote(s)
    62.5%
  3. No, he is scamming us.

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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    Respected community member @coingun has stolen 330dash leftover funds from the treasury. He is claiming money leftover is his income and offering lame excuses for keeping this money.

    We should have been made aware of this if @DashWatchTeam was doing its job but @paragon has time only for gyrating and lobbying to get his own proposal funded. We need an impartial judge.

    A man with an escrow service can steal more than 10 hackers with quantum chips.

    I had gone after @Green Candle on Dashcentral when they were being more direct with their scam then but I was dismissed as a troll then.

    @glennaustin @Bradley Zastrow @Ryan Taylor
     
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  2. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    any links and details on this to back this up ?
     
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  3. DashWatchTeam

    DashWatchTeam New Member

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    We issued a community concern report last month here https://dashwatch.org/files/1527973354010.pdf and sent out a notification on twitter. The executive summary of our report is listed below.

    For future important updates on all proposals, please follow us on twitter: https://twitter.com/DashWatch/with_replies

    "Dash Watch Executive Summary:

    Dash Boost expected that Green Candle funds held in trust for the network would be given to Dash Boost. Specifically, Dash Boost expected the 330 Dash excess from the Great American Pilgrimage (GAP) proposal would be used for micro-proposals. The Green Candle audit trail says “Green Candle holds the following in trust for the Dash network: 330.4055768 Dash - remaining funds from GAP”. After consulting with a prominent accounting firm, Green Candle was told that this 330 Dash was likely to be considered as income, and taxable as such. Green Candle has subsequently decided that any excess funds after paying their taxable obligations will be the property of Green Candle to do with as it sees fit. Dash Watch could not find an explanation as to why the funds went from completely “held in trust for the network” to completely the property of Green Candle. We welcome further explanation from Green Candle who have been communicative up until this point."
     
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  4. Stealth923

    Stealth923 Well-known Member
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    • Like Like x 2
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  5. Arthyron

    Arthyron Moderator
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    Oh joy, our favorite concern troll has returned, and here I thought the space under our bridge was vacant. I worried terribly about you Agron. DashWatch has kept us informed of the situation every step of the way, it's not their fault you don't do your due diligence before crying about the falling sky.

    GC certainly has a lot for which to answer. I won't be recommending them as an escrow provider until they sort this out and make reparations. Whether or not it was truly a tax liability issue, that's something one should probably have sorted out *before* becoming an escrow provider.
     
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  6. greencandle_jeremy

    greencandle_jeremy New Member

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    @Argon31: “Respected community member @coingun has stolen 330 Dash leftover funds from the treasury.”
    @tungfa: “any links and details on this to back this up ?”
    @Arthyron: “GC certainly has a lot for which to answer. I won't be recommending them as an escrow provider until they sort this out and make reparations. Whether or not it was truly a tax liability issue, that's something one should probably have sorted out *before* becoming an escrow provider.”
    • With respect, it was very difficult to do due diligence in a market that did not exist. We spent months convincing a top legal firm (Deloitte) to work with us so that we could begin to create it ourselves.
    • GC is helping pave the way for a mutually beneficial relationship between escrow service providers and the Dash DAO, but it is a learning process and there will be challenges. We do not let that discourage us from moving forward and improving along the way.
    • Once the implications resulting from the Dash to Fiat conversion became clear, each proposal since was structured differently to minimize taxable obligations.
    • GC injected a large sum of private capital to allow operations to continue without having to touch the funds from the GAP. This follows with our promise to leave all Dash in their respective funding lanes until the lanes can be closed properly.
    @The_Howey_Test: “We also need oversight for the oversight project, a Dash Watch Watch, to make sure they are not corrupt like Greencandle and make Shrem attack like Dr. Clown AKA Julian Hosp.”
    • Your statement is false and not based on fact. Provide proof or cease your attack. When community members make accusations without fact such as you did above, they lose credibility and the ability to contribute positively thus making themselves completely irrelevant.

    Key Points:
    • We are undergoing our 1st year end financials and will release a detailed statement of expenses to the public.
    • We will also release our plans for the fiat realized by the conversion of Dash to fiat for the GAP proposal.
    • In the meantime, we ask community members to refrain from posting false and or damaging statements and let the facts be presented in due time. We are confident that the pending reports will give MNOs the confidence needed to continue their support for the critical services GC provides.
     
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  7. Arthyron

    Arthyron Moderator
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    @greencandle_jeremy -- Sure, I get that there are bumps in the road when you're exploring new territory in legal and economic spaces. It's great that you're working with a qualified financial advisor, but getting their opinions about various likely scenarios *before* agreeing to go through with those scenarios with someone else's funds would have saved us all quite a few headaches. Do note that I said "until they sort this out and make reparations." I'm willing to entertain the possibility that this just was a weird circumstance, but until it's ironed out and the status of any funds you ostensibly hold in *trust* is subject to similar discrepancies, it's the DAO's best interest to be hands-off. If you make it right, all is well in my book.
     
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  8. jose larez

    jose larez New Member

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    Dash Address:
    h2GbHbnSFBM63RLzk4yga7DH3M2WiLU7P
    I think that this misunderstanding, generates an opportunity within the community so that this type of event does not happen again and the Dash community continues to generate more confidence
     
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  9. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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    @coingun @greencandle_jeremy

    You guys are so full of cr*p. Seriously.

    How can the funds be stolen when they have not moved?- Is this all you have?
    Well, if it hasnt moved, why dont you give the money back to core?

    While there are no funds for small projects, people like you are stealing money.

    Taking even one cent out of treasury money from escrow without a vote is a clear case of FRAUD and you should be sued for it.

    Internet has a long memory and this scam will follow each of you wherever you go next and pretend to be saints.
     
  10. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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    Can you please get @coingun to handover excess escrow funds to you?

    Dashcore can use these funds for their buffer funds and deal with whatever issues.

    @Green Candle is trying to claim this 330 Dash for themselves and are defrauding the treasury in the name of escrow.
    @Ryan Taylor @Bradley Zastrow
     
  11. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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    You are right. Thats what I said on Dashcentral on their proposal.
    But people thought he is a trustworthy guy. LOL

    He can return the Dash to Core but he wont.

    @coingun is in the same league as Charlie Shrem. Worse. Atleast shrem never pretended to be honorable member of Dash.
     
  12. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    @Argon31 the core team does not have and has never had a right to claim these funds. Nowhere did GC promise that the leftover escrowed funds would be given to the core team. Please show where this was promised or stop demanding that they do this. I would suggest to wait for GC's reports and not assume they are guilty of something until such evidence actually presents itself.
     
  13. Argon31

    Argon31 Member

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    @TroyDASH
    They suggested countless times that they will use it for micro proposals or do as the MNO network says.

    Now, suddenly, they want to pocket everything for some unsanctioned expenses.
    Returning to core is the only other option as core is fully owned by the MNs themselves.

    They cannot take a cent without a vote, that is for sure.
    If they are, that is scamming, irrespective of what you say to defend them.
     
  14. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    Sending the funds to the core team is not the *only* other option to "use it for microproposals or do as the MNO network says". I think you are judging prematurely since the financial reports have not yet been provided (so we do not actually know yet what will happen to those funds) and the dash is still sitting there in the same address so clearly they haven't been cashed out or spent yet. Not enough information.
     
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  15. Miner237

    Miner237 Well-known Member
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    Lessons learned here is that escrow services have to pay taxes too, situations change and everyone learns, when GC first offered these services they may not have been aware and have since become aware of the need to pay taxes on funds held for escrow. Dash Boot will find a way to exist and dash watch clearly made some statements on the situation. Can we move on now good escrow is essential and I would still escrow my project with GC if needed.
     
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  16. ec1warc1

    ec1warc1 Active Member

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    Everyone has to pay taxes... but, seriously, any junior accountant knows that funds in escrow are not income. Furthermore, funds held in Dash in most countries, are not considered income until they are converted into fiat or some other asset. The argument that the funds are considered income by some taxing authority is ridiculous.

    What bothers me is the lack of comments from @coingun @Green Candle

    The question at the top of this is "Is it OK for an escrow to keep leftover funds?" - It never happens in the real estate world, which is where escrow is most often used. The only thing the escrow company gets to keep are their fees, which in almost every case is less than 3% of the total. Look it up! The remainder is always distributed to the negotiating parties according to the terms of the deal. The Dash DAO is the purchasing party and the unused funds should be returned to them. If the standard is that unspent funds go to DashBoost to fund micro projects, then that is where it should go. Any Escrow company worth two cents would document this and present the correct transactions to the DAO in less than 24 hours. Any other action or lack of action is irresponsible.
     

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