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Dash World: Evolution in Marketing V.2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GreyGhost, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    PLEASE NOTE: V.2 at https://www.dashwhale.org/p/DashWorld-v.2 is the same as the Dash World: Evolution in Marketing "original" proposal. Only that we have listened to the community's concerns regarding DASH's increased price (from $4.51 to $7.00) and have incorporated them into this new proposal that now reflects a new price.

    Instead of 1,175 DASH the same dollar value is in 775 DASH requested.

    Now that there is no longer public awareness, we need this more than ever!

    Before you embark on perusing this quite a long proposal you may wish to check out our brief Slate Adobe presentations:
    Dash World: Evolution in Marketing
    Dash World: Micro-economy of Dash
    or you can listen to the podcast
    Dash Round Table Ep.02 - DashWorld Budget Proposal with Lisa Cheng and Dr. BobLQ

    Please DO NOT vote "YES" for the old proposal's page. You can find the V2 here:
    https://www.dashwhale.org/p/DashWorld-v.2
     
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  2. qwizzie

    qwizzie Well-known Member

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    this is why pre-discussion of budget proposals is so important, specially when you have a topic (in this case marketing) that can be considered highly controversial within the community.
    i'm sorry but i stay with my previous decision which is to vote on these kind of topics (the highly controversial ones) after update 12.1 when a framework is put into place
    to secure and protect these proposals more .. eventhough you as OP indicated you dont particular need that framework.
     
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  3. buster

    buster Guest

    Supporting this obviously. Will post my reasoning why shortly.

    Will also be doing an extended interview tonight with Lisa Cheng and Kevin, the director at Vanbex Group.

    If you don't know what vanbex group is and vote on this proposal shame on you.
     
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  4. Sapereaude

    Sapereaude Well-known Member
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    14650994.jpg
     
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  5. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
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    I switched my votes over to this version. I also think marketing is something that needs to be ongoing.
     
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  6. oaxaca

    oaxaca Well-known Member
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    If anybody needs an audio update, check this out:

     
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  7. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    I am also sorry to see nothing can sway you, given how much you gave to the community. (I, for one, used your Distribution of Merchants accepting Dash map for the Micro-economy of Dash doc) However, when a project you like and support, as the "Reimbursements for acquisition and setup of Dashtalk“ pops-up you write: "Thanks babygiraffe, for putting your budget proposal up in here as well so we can discuss it properly."

    So it did not concern you that a $7K ++ proposal came out of blue, seven days before the voting ends, Moreover, you claim that 7 days is ample time to "discuss it properly." without any pre-discussions requirements that are so "important." This stance does not seem overly consistent to me.

    This way or another, I think your point is a valid one, and I truly believe the Self-sustainable Decentralized Governance by Blockchain needs a better setup AND a prior discussion so Evan and the core would have time to listen to and consider the community's concerns and ideas.
     
    #7 GreyGhost, Mar 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2016
  8. Otaci

    Otaci Member

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    Everyone who voted YES to the original should also be switch their vote to NO for that proposal.
     
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  9. miner-48er

    miner-48er New Member

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    This is such an obvious need. Vote YES!
     
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  10. jpr

    jpr Active Member

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    This proposal is one of the best ones we had so far and it is very well presented. Did Lisa really manage to get ETH to finex? Not sure why would people downvote this one.
    My question is: what happens if Dash drops to $4 today? Will you change the proposal again? Wouldn't it be better to stick to the usd value somehow?
     
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  11. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    Frankly, one of the reasons for the change is to point out to that bug in the system. Think of a long-term proposals that are set at, say $7.00 today and DASH goes up to $10.00 / $100.00 / $1,000.00 during the proposal's life time? And now think if the proposal is being executed by the people having power to vote everything in or out. This is a weakness that needs to be seriously mulled over. While today's big holders are real, trustworthy supporters of the Dash Project we have no guarantees in the future a malevolent player would not try to abuse the system.

    As far as your questions:
    -- Yes, Lisa did help Ethereum get to Bitfinex;
    -- If the Dash drops today, we'll take a hit. That was a conscious decision.

    It was puzzling to me that the proposal's first appearance did not provoke any serious conversation so I also hoped to show that we do not just talk the talk but also walk the walk i.e. listen to the community's concerns regarding the DASH price run-up from $4.51 to $7.00 ++.
     
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  12. Sapereaude

    Sapereaude Well-known Member
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    I think somewhere in Evan's last post he said something like that we should stay away from multi month proposals as much as possible until evolution.
     
  13. buster

    buster Guest

    Vanbex group is aware that contracts can be cancelled.

    This proposal was made before Evans post.

    I think the concern is with the person making the proposal as they are the ones bearing the risk of having contracts cancelled.
     
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  14. David

    David Well-known Member
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    That's my main concern. To some extent it discredits Dash when a contract is cancelled, but 90% of the problem is legal liability to the proposer. Even though we are comfortable with the concept of a DAO, 95% of the population isn't even familiar with the concept. For the vast majority of businesses out there, they consider the legal entity who signed (person or centralized organization with directors) to be legally responsible.

    If the vendor knows the situation ahead of time, then I don't see any problem with it.
     
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  15. kot

    kot Administrator
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    Hi GreyGhost,
    Due to the holidays and family issues I was hardly available last 2 weeks and could not participate the discussion.
    Would it be possible for you to fill-in this document https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/download/attachments/31326281/Dash Project Proposal Template v1.0.docx?api=v2 and provide the information in this format? It would be much easier for me to understand it (at the moment there is a lot of information in many places and it is hard to understand it from PM perspective)
    Thank you in advance
     
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  16. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    kot, the voting system is based on Masternode voting opinions, not based on how the proposal is presented. Filling out a form like this cannot be enforced, and I feel like it will be the start of monthly status and then weekly status reports. The project owner has the responsibility to show masternode voters that the proposal is worth a vote.

    I see that the proposal process will eventually lead to 2 minute video presentations. The results that the masternodes will base continued funding on will also vary from reports, code releases, to website design, videos, etc. A report is just going to slow this process down and waste the persons time that collects and shares the reports.
     
  17. kot

    kot Administrator
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    Hello GreyGhost,

    Thank you for the prompt response and the file (sent in PM). Please find my feedback on the proposal.

    Pros:
    - First of all, I am really happy this proposal is created by non-core team member. It creates another DAO in Dash ecosystem - it is our ultimate goal to have many of them cooperating and working on the project development.
    - Good complex description of the proposal, explaining context of the project.
    - In most of the cases there are objectives and measures placed in the proposal.
    - There is a basic project plan, which makes it possible to control and assess.
    - Expenses plan is prepared (some parts are missed but it looks good anyway).

    Cons:
    - From what I read there is a strong dependency on external resources:
    ----- I can see an assumption on involvement of other individuals (volunteers). It will be difficult to have people available and work in the long run - the beginning is always easy when there is a lot of enthusiasm. It gets really difficult after some time (volunteers work when they want and how much they want without being paid, every one of them have private life, problems, and families, own projects etc. - this is not a criticism but a fact taken from my experience).
    ----- There is no budgets secured for the conferences/events (flights, accommodations, fees, presentation tailoring). There are a lot of Dash projects started and driven at the moment (and will be even more) - all of them competing for the budget. It creates a big risk and could have a strong impact on the project success.
    - Core team (and the foundation) have taken seriously the community feedback after the Transform PR project and moved focus to development of the software, project infrastructure, adoptions, partnerships, better communication and organization. This proposal is a step back to the "old direction" and creates difficulties in supporting one team by another. It looks like two DAOs will work on different areas (what is good) but it will be difficult to use the same resources by them (budgets, people). Considering our very limited resources it is not a perfect solution.
    - Some goals have no measures listed (it can be easy fixed).
    - The proposal is submitted for 4 months and timelines cover 3 months (probably I missed one month somewhere).
    - We are working on the new website. Majority of SEO efforts might be lost when the new website is created and deployed.

    Neutral:
    - There is a strong dependency on the external vendor (Vanabex). I do not know the company but I have checked their website and there is a very small team there and some big clients. Please make sure they will be able to book enough time for Dash.
    - Goals and expected results for the vendor are pretty much the same like for the previous one.
    - I am not sure why we would need strategic alliances with others in the Internet of Things industry (listed in the budget part and Manila conf) - Dash have different goals and direction than they (they will rather support projects like Ethereum in my opinion).

    Summary:
    I find it a good proposal and project - you have done an excellent work with this! I have dedicated more space to describe concerns just because I wanted to be understood well (and not because they are bigger than pros :)). There are really strong elements in the proposal and Dash needs such activities in my opinion.
    After some analysis, considering all of the above, I would recommend to execute the project but in different time frame (when we could really dedicate maximum of our resources to it - e.g. when v12.1 is finished and v12.2 in the testnet). I think it is possible to successfully start and execute it now but the results might be much better when we are done with the current activities and everyone could fully support this project. Meantime everything could be well prepared and planned in more details. This is my personal opinion and advice.
     
    #17 kot, Apr 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2016
  18. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    Thanks kot -- many points you made have been discussed elsewhere so I do not feel to go back to point by point. It's up to the Masternode owners now I guess. You made a very good point about IoT; I think we might already be too late and that would, IMHO, represent a loss of tremendous opportunity. (DashPay micropayments from social wallet would've been ideal platform for IoT) Luckily, the world is big and our advantages may be better used elsewhere.

    I'd love to make two briefs comments. One's about SEO. In my, now ancient, book SEO Facts and Fiction: Optimize your Website and Reap the Rewards I have one still very relevant bit, a paragraph titled # 2 SEO Truth You Should Know:

    "SEO does produce results indeed and good SEO work can make the difference between a successful website and a mediocre one, but whenever possible, a web site should be designed to be Search Engine friendly as a fundamental concern. For maximum efficiency in Search Engine Optimization efforts, business managers, developers and marketers should work together, from a web site’s inception and technical and visual design and moving throughout its development lifetime. When a preexisting web site is designed in a way that poses problems for search engines, search engine optimization can become a much larger task."

    Also, you wrote: "I think it is possible to successfully start and execute it now but the results might be much better when we are done with the current activities and everyone," and this is one of the arguments I keep hearing in one form or another. "Dash is not ready," being one of it. I plan activities, one of which really excites me, that would require months and endless working hours from me and I am certain it should start ASAP.
     
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  19. kot

    kot Administrator
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    Thanks for the response GreyGhost.
    I am not sharing the opinion that "Dash is not ready". I think we are ready for it (we have a good product and it can be advertised). Although I understand the opposite opinions - people have voted against one marketing proposal a month ago and they have the same concerns now.
    What I am saying is that we have limited resources (people, money, skills) and with limited resources we cannot effectively go in different strategic directions. It does not mean we could not do it at all. We could but the result and impact will not be as good as the collective, coordinated efforts.
    In fact there are limited number of people and very limited amount of money to develop the complex project. In my opinion it would be much more effective (from time and budget perspective) to focus on one direction and build value of Dash. When the value is bigger, and thanks to this there is enough budget to support multiple streams, we could easy fund multiple projects, extend the team by hiring contractors and vendors etc.
    It is simple matter of choice how we are going to develop the project. As you wrote, it is now up to the Masternode owners.
    No matter in which direction voting goes, I wish all the best to this project. If you need any PM assistance in this, feel free to contact me. I would be more than happy to help.
     
    #19 kot, Apr 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2016
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  20. oaxaca

    oaxaca Well-known Member
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    kot - Can I ask who is working on it?
     
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  21. kot

    kot Administrator
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    Sure - it would be me, fernando , yidakee , tungfa and alex-ru with support of salmion .
    Unfortunately we have stuck (but this is a different story - I will open another thread for this soon).
     
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  22. oaxaca

    oaxaca Well-known Member
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    Ask for help, there are many here in the community with vast experience.
     
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  23. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    I'd like to briefly thank everyone for all the comments and, obviously, the Masternode owners who voted "YES" for Dash Word: Evolution in Marketing. I thank you for all the "NO" votes as well, for those inspire us to work even harder to change your mind in due course.

    The work has started. The channels for communication are open. The gratitude is enormous. Thank you.
     
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  24. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member

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    Godspeed, GreyGhost! Whip this project into shape... :D
     
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  25. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
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    I just came to see what's up :) I'd sure love to know what your first steps are - if you can divulge them :) The "main stream" media (for cryptos) hasn't had much to say lately :p And I'm hoping you all are getting ready for the 0.12.1 update, which should be huge. I can't wait to see what the boys have been working on all this time!

    As Mr. Robot says, "Exciting Times" :D
     
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  26. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    hey there and congrats
    please feel free to reach out anytime if in need of anything from the team , happy to help obviously ! you know where to find me ;)
     
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  27. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    Thanks TaoOfSatoshi, TanteStefana, tungfa. Sorry Tante, no New York Times cover story this week yet ;) as we work on the audit(s). We need to know where do we stand first in order to move forward in the most efficient way. I am working on the SEO audit of the dash.org at the moment. Given all delays with the new site I intend, for every "this sucks" on the current site, offer a solution that would help, not only for the current site to get in shape, but to also serve as a set of instructions for a new one.

    It would be great, tungfa, if someone could add Google Webmaster Tools verification file in the root of dash website. The file is here:
    http://displaced.me/google64ba50cbe9fd397e.html
    so all that's needed is download the html and upload it to the root of dash:
    https://www.dash.org/google64ba50cbe9fd397e.html

    Once this is done, adding me to Google Analytics would also help. For that I'd have to give you guys my GA linked e-mail, but via private message.
     
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  28. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    fernando kot regarding webmaster tool please
    as far as i know we have extended reports and sure happy to hand them over
    access to webpage is a different story (security) but i am sure fernando or somebody will comment on this
     
  29. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    GreyGhost As far as I know, Evan has the site included in his GWT account. Let me check with him and I'll get back you on this because I'm not sure about the effects of two different ownership verifications. I understand that the cleanest thing would be that he adds you to the account. I did some work on GWT when we had dashpay.io, but I don't think anyone has worked with dash.org yet, so your work there is much appreciated.

    As for GA, send me your email address via PM and I'll add you.
     
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  30. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Well-known Member
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    fernando "restricted access" with another GWT code takes care of any issues. There would be none. As far as email for GA I am PM it now, thanks.
     
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