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Dash Treasury Review Committee Master Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mastermined, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member

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    I wanted to create this thread to bring together all the competing/similar review committee type proposals into one neutral thread for discussion.

    The goal is to provide a place where we can hash out the best ideas and get some collaboration between all parties involved. All the various proposal seem to be in their infancy at this point and are asking for help from the community to fill positions. With all the various proposals I think most of those positions can be filled with the people already working on this, or atleast have 2-3 competing proposals instead of 5-6+.

    This is going to be one of the most important proposals the Dash Masternodes will vote on and should not be taken lightly!



    @Biltong
    Official Pre-Proposal: Proposal Evaluation Committee
    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/official-pre-proposal-proposal-evaluation-committee.15247/



    @jimbursch
    https://fundchan.com/dashbudgetwatch



    @joezippy
    Submit general direction to the Core Team, regading the future of the Dash DAO?
    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...am-regading-the-future-of-the-dash-dao.14867/



    @abob54
    Proposal: DashTreasury.org - Taking Dash to #1
    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-dashtreasury-org-taking-dash-to-1.15228/




    @SimontheRavager
    Treasury Proposals Trustee Senate (TPTS) - White Paper
    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/treasury-proposals-trustee-senate-tpts-white-paper.14937/



    I know I am missing at least one or two others but will update this thread as needed.
     
    #1 mastermined, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  2. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member

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    Original post saved
     
  3. abob54

    abob54 New Member

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    We're very happy that everyone here realizes that the proposal system needs to be fixed, and fixed quickly. The first cryptocurrency that figures out efficient governance and treasury funding will win.

    An online organization with a $1B marketcap in this environment, with $1M per month to spend on R&D and marketing should be doubling every month. Dash is not growing at this rate because the funds are being improperly deployed on ineffective marketing, and a lack of expertise and coordination. We have a well developed plan to change that, and we are determined to do just this. Our entire investment depends on it.

    We have a fully functional site that is independently funded by large Dash investors who are incredibly seasoned in growing this size of business and making it happen fast. We have corporate advisors, and we are staffed and are not short on any resources, except for the cooperation of MNOs who share the same goals as us.

    If any of you are willing to contribute your time and energy to this, we have a pre-proposal system which takes pre-proposals and shapes them into proposals that will not only pass the vote, but that will end up being profitable to Dash. Any expertise you can add to these pre-proposals will complement our own and those MNOs who have already joined up. It'd be a great help.

    https://www.dashtreasury.org/pre-proposals.html

    If any of you would like a phone call with either myself or @dashdisciple to discuss our plan, or simply to get involved in any productive way, please let us know. We are not often on this forum, but generally communicate through Reddit or through email.

    Best - abob54
     
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  4. joezippy

    joezippy Member

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    @abob54 nice work on dashtreasury.org... My only concern that this thread should consider is overlap with @rango and DashCentral.org... MNOs are accustom to hanging out at DashCentral.org for voting, etc... Now we have a treasury site which provides additional functionality, but also some budget info overlap... The "open bounty" / RFP section is a great addition to the community, which I have been advocating for... :)

    Just wanted to get this out there..... @mastermined thanks for pulling all this together!

    Cheers!
     
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  5. joezippy

    joezippy Member

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    @abob54 -- Attached you will find some work the community did around the RFP / bounty process... Use it as you wish... I took the idea, as far as I could... :)
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    i just came across this yesterday and was kindda surprised - must have missed the launch

    in principal i really like the idea (put some pressure onto "none" deliverers )
    question is just how much you guys actually communicate with these "none deliverers" before "judging" them as good or bad
    are u in charge of this ?
    (i would like to have a talk or call tx )
     
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  7. jimbursch

    jimbursch Active Member

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    Thanks @mastermined for getting the discussion started.

    Just to clarify, at DashBudgetWatch we sponsor selected proposals and manage their budgets to completion. We currently have two pre-proposals in the pipeline:
    Dash Bug Bounty Program
    Dash Product Placement in Hollywood
    https://fundchan.com/dbw/preproposal_projects

    We do not review proposals or in any way comment on proposals other than our own. We are very happy to work with DashTreasury and PEC (and anyone else) to improve the quality and efficiency of the Dash Budget process.

    If anyone has any questions/comments/suggestions about DashBudgetWatch (https://fundchan.com/dashbudgetwatch) please feel free to contact me.

    Jim Bursch
    https://fundchan.com/JimBursch
     
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  8. joezippy

    joezippy Member

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    Looks good, but my only thought here is... Now we have 3 places for MNOs to look for information...
    • DashCentral.org
    • DashTreasury.org
    • DashBudgetWatch

    All these sites need to be integrated, if we want to manage proposals effectively... Hoping for unity. Cheers!
     
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  9. abob54

    abob54 New Member

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    Hi @tungfa, our advisor @dashdisciple had a scheduled call with you and Ryan on June 2 at 0900PT, well before DashTreasury.org was launched to the public. @dashdisciple was blown off, and hasn't been able to get ahold of anyone at Core since. I believe he has another scheduled call with you on June 15 1500PT, which I know he is greatly looking forward to. He respects and admires the incredible progress Core has made so far.

    You must understand that we are looking to cooperate and coordinate as much as possible with Core, but we also have an obligation to our colleagues who are Dash investors and do not believe in moving slowly when good things can happen now.

    Yes, we are definitely in contact with proposal owners with delinquent proposals before they are given more attention. There's been some upset people from Core messaging us regarding quantumexplorer's rating on dashtreasury.org. Please note that the ratings on the site are provided by all verified MNO's on the site - not just us. It sets a bad precedent to look the other way when a proposal owner fails to deliver on his stated obligations after having been fully funded by the MNOs.

    Thanks very much. We absolutely love Dash, and are extremely excited to help Dash in every possible way we can.
     
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  10. jimbursch

    jimbursch Active Member

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    At DashBudgetWatch we don't host public discussions or new information about proposals. We link to the Dash Forum for pre-proposals and Dash Central for submitted proposals. So, we wouldn't be one of those places that MNOs would have to monitor.

    That being said, the plethora of sites that are springing up to discuss proposals is problematic. In addition to Dash Forum, Dash Central and the newly arrived DashTreasury, we also have to monitor Slack and Reddit and YouTube and the whole freakin web to stay on top of the discussion.

    I would be very happy if the MNOs only read Dash Forum and Dash Central to make their decisions.
     
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  11. IronVape

    IronVape Member
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    While duplication of effort is wasteful, some degree of redundancy is good. It can add robustness to the process and make the whole stronger.

    Two things that I would like to see are:
    1. A cross check on MNO ownership verification so that a single site owner cannot fake consensus by creating "verified" accounts.
    2. A cross check on proposal votes so that a single site owner cannot "accidentally" forget to send your vote to the network.
     
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  12. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    Dash Address:
    XmPNBEQyaVNyFudWL3hhhcWfkdYK6T9nCF
    Ok – this is going to be a pain!!

    Lets go down the list:

    Jim DBW
    Solves the 5 dash problem quite elegantly
    Some questions about Backers evaluating proposals and DBW holding funds to pay on milestones (if I understood this correctly)
    Nothing that cannot be solved.
    Could very easily integrate with PEC for the evaluations
    Possible problems: PEC is not funded then DBW’s evaluations will be problematic or DBW does not take off.

    Not a Proposal – already up and running

    Joezippy

    DAO definition/organization
    Aims: Scale; Focus; Become more accountable; Lean more on reputation; Increase survivability
    Not a Proposal.
    Work in progress with a lot more to do.
    Very contentious and important issues.
    Joe you still up for this? Long - long slog?


    Abob54
    Lots of hype, but hardly any detail.
    I have a lot of questions, but found very few answers.
    Let’s start with two:

    1) Refusing to answer repeated requests about your identity.

    Counted +- 11 people asking you ‘Who you are’; Who is involved in your project? But you never answered? Or did I miss it?
    This was why the PEC did not get back to you.

    We have a resident troll, that some of the MNO’s suspect, is paid by a rival coin to disrupt us.
    A ‘disrupter’ that controls the central website where all Dash proposals pass through will have a very destructive weapon.
    He could shoot down good proposals and community members (and it seems this has already happened.)
    My gut feel is that you are not a disrupter, but obviously we have to be careful.

    If you have answered the question somewhere I’m truly sorry – checked again on DF before starting on this letter: Nothing.
    Why don’t you just answer it? Who are you? Who is involved in your project?
    I assume you have something ‘bad’ to hide. Note that this is a very libertarian society – you might find us quite forgiving.
    However: If you don’t answer I can’t do business with you.

    2) Your website

    At the moment we have 7+ ‘forums’ where pre-proposals and proposals are discussed. This is completely idiotic! Important information is lost because of too many sites to read and in the case of slack, post being deleted. Ideally this should be restricted to 2 only. DC and D Forum. You want to add another site to an existing nightmare. This is not good for the community; the MNO’s; Dash or my investment.

    Forum informs me via email if someone posted on a thread that I’ve got on ‘Watch’ – will your website do the same – If not the website will make MNO’s lives and Dash’s progress even more difficult – not easier. Then it might be better to keep the Pre-Proposal discussions on Dash Forum and the after posting discussion on Dash Central as is.

    It seems that you want all the Pre-proposals and proposals to go through your website. Dash Central and Dash Forum discussions must move to your website? Having a central site is a good idea, except for one thing: You have only been around a week on Dash Forum! This is the main proposal discussion site. And of course: Point 1 above.

    I’m sorry if I come over harsh, but this involves a sizeable chunk of my retirement money – so no mercy ;)


    SimonTheRavager

    Couple of problems: 333 Dash deposit and MNO punishment ;)
    Nothing that cannot be solved.
    My gut feel is that something like your idea could be used to monitor proposal delivery milestones?


    PEC

    I’ll leave it to you guys – curious to hear the weak spots.
    Ahh – what the hell- Main ones:
    Will MNO’s even take notice of what we do?
    Will the Evaluators hang around once the workload increases?
    Will we get funded in the 1st place?

    Mastemined

    You left out the Dash Force revue/discussion videos where you revue the PEC (Proposal Evaluation Committee) evaluations [​IMG]

    Looking at a lot of issues here at one time:
    DAO structure/organization/control
    Submit general direction to the Core Team, regarding the future of the Dash DAO
    Proposal Evaluations
    Funding of the 5 Dash for Proposals
    -Holding past proposal owners accountable. Following up to make sure services are provided and goals are met.
    -Increasing the amount of high quality pre-proposals received.
    -Subsidizing "Open Bounties"
    -Collecting expert analysis of specific Dash proposals.
    -Publicizing Dash Success Stories to win mainstream press attention.
    -Proactively soliciting updates from funded proposal owners and offering professional assistance when needed.
    -Helping to launch "micro proposals" for small jobs with high ROI.
    -Thorough vetting of new proposals to help separate the wheat from the chaff.
    Etc


    Where do we start? Do we work from top down – DAO 1st? Or do we start at the bottom: Pre-Proposal evaluations or 5 Dash funding?
    I think if we have open house and discuss everything with no Road Map, it will soon become a mess – go nowhere and people will lose interest and disappear.
    This has happened before

    You called us here – maybe you should take the chair and provide leadership ;)
     
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  13. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    Integrated straight into the wallet ?!
     
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  14. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member

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    My podcast has not started yet and will be my free contribution, we may or may not post it on DFN and promote it there, we'll see how it goes.
    We (myself and different guest) will be reviewing/hanging out and talking about different proposals and pre proposals. Not sure if it will just be once a month or 4 times a month. I will start off with once a month and see how much time i have left for more. I plan to have the first episode talk about the PEC and now I guess all the other similar proposals as this has become a big issue. The 2nd episode and following episodes will be about whatever proposals myself and my guest find interesting and want to talk about.


    Guess I need make a proposal to oversee the review committees ;)

    New proposal....
    The review committee's oversight and review committee committee o_O:confused::D
    I think about 1000 Dash a month should cover it:eek:
     
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  15. joezippy

    joezippy Member

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    I'm here... Waning, but here... Please reach out directly w/ a tag if you want my attention..... Family first. Cheers!
     
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  16. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Someday will be in the electrum wallet.
     
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  17. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    Great! The most secure way for voting is in the wallet. A website can be shut down modified hacked etc. wallets can't and it would be a great problem if the Dash central site had been shut down. I think we could even see a loss of 30-40% easily. Very important.
     
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  18. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Then, please, vote for the respective card on https://trello.com/b/fcoZOZOm/electrum-dash ?

    Sidenote: Too much is going on in Ukraine in crypto now (wave is rising), so I'm a bit slow in progress. Hope to catch up or find additional devs to ramp up the team.
     
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  19. SimontheRavager

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    #19 SimontheRavager, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  20. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    Don't like the word "Committee", would prefer "Group".

    Committee sounds too formal / misrepresents / suggests there is just one "committee" representing dash proposals.

    Perhaps the generic name could be "Proposal Services Group". Then all these groups can give themselves pet names e.g. PSG Panther, PSG Jaguar etc. This would give the flexibility that some groups can offer enhanced proposal services such as translations etc.
     
  21. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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    True - wish this came up a couple of months earlier. . Don't want to change now before we're even funded,. For now the PEC is already entrenched in (some) community thought
    Added it to our road map (Phase 4) for committee discussion. Might consider it sooner if we get sub-groups before then,
    Thanx in any case - more suggestions on any aspects very welcome
     
  22. Nyk

    Nyk New Member

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    Is it possible or even useful to make a system where anyone holding a set amount of dash can rate proposals? and just use that to help the masternodes decide what to do? We aren't sure that people will be educated on the proposals, but requiring a certain amount of dash will make it so the people that are more likely to do whats best for dash are the ones voting. Just a sort of decentralized review system where your not just trusting a small group of people employed by dash. There's nothing wrong with having people employed by dash when its required, but is it required for reviews of proposals. Both could work together even. Just my thoughts! :)
     
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  23. arush11

    arush11 New Member

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    The program committee will consider both individual papers and entire.After the Krooss committee has reviewed the proposals.
     
  24. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    Perfect example for what I see for Dash. Decentralize nodes so everyone can vote and receive incentives for holding Dash. Go show your support :) https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...ateral-to-100-pre-proposal.15380/#post-130012
     
  25. SimontheRavager

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    AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN until you understand it. BUY MANAGED SHARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    no need to lower the 1000 DASH for a Masternode
     
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  26. stellabelle

    stellabelle Active Member

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    I have updated my stats and information on the DashTreasury site and when I went to claim my proposal, I honestly could not figure out what i needed to do. Can someone explain how i claim it? Also, I am getting ready to create some more stats, and was wondering where is the best place to put that information? I already put a lot of stats directly there via comments, but where is a central place to put all the stats?
     
  27. Biltong

    Biltong Active Member

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  28. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member

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    I would post stats/updates in the official Dash forum first, then on your pre proposal or proposal thread. Dash treasury could go away tomorrow, probably won't but would not be the first time I have seen something like that happen. Post here and there and Dash central for max exposure.
     
    #28 mastermined, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  29. dashdisciple

    dashdisciple Member

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    DashTreasury.org is not going away, but I do agree with Mastermined that the more exposure, the better.
     
  30. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    hey @dashdisciple
    you have to understand the caution from community and others as u have zero track record
    you signed up a month ago and started pages/.proposals and such
    we have seen it all before and people get enthusiastic and disappear as fast

    how do you evaluate the proposals /comments you post on your page ?
    (i heard some complains about false details there / quantum and such)
    is there a community committee or you just do this by yourself ?
     
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