Dangerous proposal precedent

May 1, 2017
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I was looking over the funded proposal here https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DashBrandingForSydneyHarbourRacingYacht
and was shocked to see these
  • Free rides on the yacht for Master Node operators when the yacht is racing.
  • 50% discount for Master Node operators on overnight chartering the yacht via airbnb
without ANY discussion about masternode owner kickbacks.

If we start to allow proposals to bribe masternode owners to vote (essentially what this is), dash is going to suffer immensely.
I know that a boat ride isn't game-changing, but the precedent is now there:

The masternodes have voted to fund a proposal that gives them an exclusive privilege, with the Dash budget

This should terrify all dash holders.
I'd suggest the community figure out how to stop proposals from containing such incentives in the first place, and withdraw this privilege from this proposal, or extend it to all dash holders.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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The Masternodes did reject a kickback from Charlie Shrem's original debit card proposal, so there is some degree of restraint at least.

Speaking of which, what is even more concerning to me is:

Budget for this proposal paid out 6 weeks 3 days ago
@David Mason was last seen: 8w 2d ago

Anyone have any followup information about this project? Or should we add it to the list
 
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Bitedge

New Member
Mar 20, 2016
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That is a good point that I had not considered.

I think all we can do is make it socially unacceptable and vote and speak out against it when we see it.

What controls does anyone have over what other people put in proposals?

Core somehow censoring proposals or stopping payments to proposals that have been voted in favor of by the masternodes is an even worse recipe for disaster than proposals giving masternode operators kickbacks.

If you ban a behaviour it just continues around the ban, under the table in this case.

Now I think about it this is a real can of worms due to the possibility it could make the incentives of individual masternode operators different that what is best for dash.
 
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demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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I was looking over the funded proposal here https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DashBrandingForSydneyHarbourRacingYacht
and was shocked to see these
  • Free rides on the yacht for Master Node operators when the yacht is racing.
  • 50% discount for Master Node operators on overnight chartering the yacht via airbnb
without ANY discussion about masternode owner kickbacks.

If we start to allow proposals to bribe masternode owners to vote (essentially what this is), dash is going to suffer immensely.
I know that a boat ride isn't game-changing, but the precedent is now there:

The masternodes have voted to fund a proposal that gives them an exclusive privilege, with the Dash budget

This should terrify all dash holders.
I'd suggest the community figure out how to stop proposals from containing such incentives in the first place, and withdraw this privilege from this proposal, or extend it to all dash holders.
The stupids and spies ( who bought masternodes in order to abuse Dash's governance ) strike again.
A proof of individuality is desperately needed.
 
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GrandMasterDash

Well-known Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
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Oh, you mean like when Julian offered to sweeten the pill for late delivery by enabling dash for MNOs? Or is that okay?

But then again, I'm perfectly okay with kickbacks. My collateral, my time, why can't I benefit?

While we're on the subject of kickbacks then, would it be a good idea to have an MNO VIP tool? An app that allows MNOs to attend events and get perks because they can verify they are indeed a dash MNO? Whether it's free rides on aero-sport planes or dash being enabled on tenx, there is clearly an ongoing idea that MNOs can receive perks... and why not.
 

demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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Oh, you mean like when Julian offered to sweeten the pill for late delivery by enabling dash for MNOs? Or is that okay?

But then again, I'm perfectly okay with kickbacks. My collateral, my time, why can't I benefit?

While we're on the subject of kickbacks then, would it be a good idea to have an MNO VIP tool? An app that allows MNOs to attend events and get perks because they can verify they are indeed a dash MNO? Whether it's free rides on aero-sport planes or dash being enabled on tenx, there is clearly an ongoing idea that MNOs can receive perks... and why not.
in that case, and if you want to be fair, let the perks be proportional to the number of masternodes someone owns. Do you have 1 masternode? 1 perk. Do you have 1000 masternodes? 1000 perks. Do you agree wih that?

Additionally, what kind of perks should be allowed? For example, this can be considered as a perk: "for those who own more than 32 masternodes to avoid taxation and transaction fees, while those who own 31 masternodes or less to pay double tax and double transaction fees" ? Where this perk issue will end? Shouldnt you put some written limits for the perks and the priviledges? Shouldnt you write a perk "constitution"?
 
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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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Its a mute question unless someone can explain to me how anything is dis-allowed. Is there any mechanism to restrict what is in proposals?
Its not a mute question. You should implement some kind of proof of individuality (like this one), spot the stupids and the spies, and remove the voting rights of those individuals who vote in a way they gain perks and priviledges against the common good. You should remove the voting rights of those who vote against the community, regardless how many masternodes they own. Those who vote against the community are always a tiny minority of individuals, and they should be afraid of the wrath of the majority.

We have plenty of examples where stupids or spies vote in favor of themselves and against the community. The lamassu incident being one of the first case studies, where 7000 dash (which worth 2.100.000 $ today) have been lost and nobody has ever been punished for that fiasco.
 
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casualchris56

New Member
Mar 23, 2017
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You bring up a great point I haven't considered. I think one thing to keep in mind, with Evolution I believe they're looking to make Masternode shares and in turn hopefully shares will have voting rights so the voting will be more distributed and not just held to MNs.