CloakSend 2.0 / PoSA - fake or legit?

vertoe

Three of Nine
Mar 28, 2014
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CLOAK tries a new approach to anonymous transactions. I've watched a PoSA transaction on YouTube:

Here are the transactions:

Now I have two thoughts:
  1. Perfect. If this works it's a suprior approach to anonymous transactions.
  2. Fake. It's so easy to create such a video, create two transactions and sell them as one PoSA transaction.
I want to discuss: Are the CLOAK devs serious or is this just a big scam scheme? Why are the CLOAK devs anonymous? Why is the CLOAKSEND testing not open to the public?

I think this is an important discussion we should think through in the Darkcoin community.
 
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CHAOSiTEC

Official Darkcoin Dev
Mar 28, 2014
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The problem is always how its implemented, can there be deviced attack vectors to this, is it really safe, or is it just to pump the coin...
 
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karisu

Member
Jun 30, 2014
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It might be superior or not. I bet for the latter. Because I already start having my doubts when I see a whitepaper released on mega, an abstract written in CAPS Lock, the whole text edited in microsoft word and there are no references in the whitepaper either. And the screencast video just makes the impression no deanomysation is possible but I don't consider this as a proof. The website has no information on the dev team and github has neither. And the forum finalizes my impression that something is wrong. I would say I am having the "veri" feeling something is wrong with cloak coin. And some others have doubts too http://www.reddit.com/r/CLOAK/comments/2b1ier/cloakcoin_scam_warning/
 

chaeplin

Active Member
Core Developer
Mar 29, 2014
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What I see ..

Two tx, someone in middle.
Two block, 1626, 1629.

Seems like another coin forwarding(XC rev1 ~ 1.5 has this. cloack didn't split tx)
Sender wallet show middle address, not real payee





 
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DRKLord

Member
Jun 2, 2014
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Fake video is fake! :D

Vertoe and I were talking about this last night, but I didn't know enough about Cloakcoin to give my opinion on the matter. But now that I've seen this thread and done a bit of research, this does smell fishy to me. Kinda seems like they're just trying to ride on Darkcoin's coattails in the anonymity arms race and pump the coin with this sort of hype: dubious claims of questionable veracity... they can dump the tons of Cloakcoin they hold and disappear into the sunset without a trace. I could be wrong, of course... it just seems like this would be the perfect "crime of convenience" to make a team of nameless, faceless "devs" a bit richer with minimal time and effort...
 

c4shm3n

New Member
Jul 27, 2014
2
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ALL FUDERS HERE FYI POSA BETA RELEASE HERE:

bitcointalk.XXX/index.php?topic=637704.msg8048720#msg8048720

So next time before FUD something here please proof and dont be like USA!
 

CHAOSiTEC

Official Darkcoin Dev
Mar 28, 2014
86
36
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limits are 10 cloak down to 0.5 cloak, its either a mixer or standard coinjoin

i would love to see kristov's coinjoin seduko play with it
 

CHAOSiTEC

Official Darkcoin Dev
Mar 28, 2014
86
36
58
Kristovs coinjoin seduko should play with dark first.... will be more fun
at least he is reviewing the source, how many independant security experts has reviewed cloakcoins source? 0 exactly...

and since darkcoin is not a coinjoin per see anymore, its not like the seduko is of any use there..lol

and in regards of socalled fudding well, you do know that cloakcoin holders started to fud, and kept fudding get your sources straight, its not fudding when we talk about other coins on our own board...
 
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MrMime

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Has any of this info been shown to cloakcoin community? Any responses, or allegations of FUD ourselves? XD
 

CHAOSiTEC

Official Darkcoin Dev
Mar 28, 2014
86
36
58
cloakcoin supporters have been fudding the darkcoin thread for almost the intire time cloakcoin has excisted....
 
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CHAOSiTEC

Official Darkcoin Dev
Mar 28, 2014
86
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Not reviewing, no, I tried to understand what they are doing at cloakcoin but didn't manage to understand the concept. But I would love someone from cloak explain it.
i tried, but all they gave me was the white paper, which doesnt really say anything
 

karisu

Member
Jun 30, 2014
70
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Well, I am good at waiting... Maybe when they are done with the beta they can share some of their insights to us. Until then every party is obviously has made their choice on what is the best. Should we agree on some kind of bet?
 

CHAOSiTEC

Official Darkcoin Dev
Mar 28, 2014
86
36
58
im not trolling, ive asked intelligent questions, never trolled about their choices, they choose what they want to believe in, and that is fine by me...
 
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BelStar

Member
Apr 17, 2014
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New information about the potential CLOAK scam : http://www.reddit.com/user/doghousedetective/
Ah the scam is revealed!!

Cloak coin users a webserver to mix the coins, like fedora

http://www.cloaksend.com/api/cloaks...2XpGp/C5qKmSjW1K1CiADtnMHMPBjQWybHQ9S8ce/50.0

That is the URL the client calls (unencrypted) and sends the coins to that address, then the fedora mixer sends them to the receiver.

Proof it is a scam and POSA doesnt exist at all!!!
Please be aware this is not a fact, it needs to be confirmed.

EDIT: this could be correct but related to CloakSend 1.0, not 2.0
 
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nsimmons

New Member
Jul 20, 2014
10
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I've read this paper over and over again. It is literally, the system is trust less, because the system is trust less. I've read a significant amount of technical papers, in many fields, and this just screams scam. I suspect to a lay person it appears impressive, but it is nothing but obfuscation. If there was a revolutionary solution here, even a general outline would drastically improve the coins acceptance. The lack of any specifics, whatsoever, leave me in severe doubt.
The paper, grammatical errors aside, does not appear to be authored by someone who has ever written a scientific paper before.
 
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flare

Administrator
Dash Core Team
Moderator
May 18, 2014
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I've read this paper over and over again. It is literally, the system is trust less, because the system is trust less. I've read a significant amount of technical papers, in many fields, and this just screams scam. I suspect to a lay person it appears impressive, but it is nothing but obfuscation. If there was a revolutionary solution here, even a general outline would drastically improve the coins acceptance. The lack of any specifics, whatsoever, leave me in severe doubt.
The paper, grammatical errors aside, does not appear to be authored by someone who has ever written a scientific paper before.
I agree, only statements, but no proof in their paper. At least they provided a diagram on CloakSend 2.0 / PoSA 2.0 now - appears like mixing with 2 parties, using their stake. Differs from Darksend in the fact that masternodes don't involve their 1000 DRK "stake" for mixing.

 
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chaeplin

Active Member
Core Developer
Mar 29, 2014
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Is this means that payee wallet should be online ?
Anyway 2 Txs.
 

karisu

Member
Jun 30, 2014
70
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If that is true, doesn't that mean clients behind a firewall,NAT or with blocked ports have a problem?
 
N

nj47

Guest
If that is true, doesn't that mean clients behind a firewall,NAT or with blocked ports have a problem?
Yes - but a workaround would not necessarily be impossible. It also means cold wallets are very challenging.

Essentially, it takes security best practices and says fuck you.
With darkcoin once you have denominated coins, there is no reason your wallet needs to be online - to send or receive coins. This requires a little bit of work (not possible with the default wallet) but it is a big part of what I'm working on (see the link in my signature for more details.).

However with cloakcoin that is not possible at the protocol level, not simply a modified wallet required.

EDIT: To clarify that last part - with darkcoin it isn't possible to send coins if your wallet is offline. However like normal you do not not to be online to receive coins. With cloackcoin you need to be online to do either.
 
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chaeplin

Active Member
Core Developer
Mar 29, 2014
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If that is true, doesn't that mean clients behind a firewall,NAT or with blocked ports have a problem?
If so called stealth address (or similar method) is used for payee, it makes sense.

But coin forwarding is still happen.
 
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