Budget Proposal - «Donation to Edward Snowden»

alex-ru

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Judging by last interview https://dashtalk.org/threads/interviewed-nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-for-the-electronic-frontier-foundations-pioneer-awards.6271/
Edward Snowden still didn’t test and even don’t know about Dash cryptocurrency.

What do you think about voting for donation (I guess 600 DASH (?) is reasonable sum + 200 DASH (?) to organize informational campaign about this event and to inform Snowden about it somehow and transfer DASH directly to his Dash wallet…) Can we organize it?


Reasons to do it are:

1. To support the most reputable Person who protects the values shared by the majority of the Dash community (I guess).

2. To let him send anonymized money (DASH) to any (authoritative) payees who may be also interested in Dash and will start using Private Digital Cash as a result.

3. We can expect some positive Media PR reaction to this action.

4. We have chance to get some evaluation of DASH from competent Celebrity and opinion leader.


What do you think about it?
 
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yidakee

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grrr... :D

That is a fantastic idea I already had, but hadn't proposed because it's within another idea I have for a future budget proposal :tongue:

I would definitely vote positively on this!

.
 
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TaoOfSatoshi

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Brilliant PR move, agree on the timing mentioned above. Dash should be nearing a completed product, easier to use for the curious newcomers such a move would bring.

I would also suggest to not only highlight privacy, but also the speed. We are no longer a one-trick pony. If we add "ease of use" to our repertoire by then, it could generate a whole lot of new users!
 
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alex-ru

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"Edward Snowden -> Bitcoin -> Darkcoin -> DASH (Private digital currency)"

Come on, Google! Help Mr. Snowden (and others) find their perfect anonymous Digital Cash!
:D
 
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fible1

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IF we do this, only after v0.13 is out, darksend is gone and replaced with the instant solution. Anon feature have to be perfect first.
I agree with this, and you would get my vote.

Pablo.
 

tungfa

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I think this is much more complex than just doing a donation !
We could do the above , but that would not mean we actually get anything out of it !

The key here (i think) would be to associate with Greenwald, Electronic Frontier Association, any privacy concern group .... and build up a reputation over that ! We have never done this, and we REALLY should ! We have to put the ground work in to get any rep in this scene.
Only donating to Snowden and hoping for returns is too simple as an approach.
Snoden is a clever guy, and will not fall for such a PR stunt/attempt (he know we want his name on this).

We should really talk this through in the proper way before we push this idea any further.

Sure it would be amazing if Snowden says: "Dash is what i use for my finances"
but
there is much more work to do than just send some cash !
Plus we have to be ready for probable repercussions coming out of this !

Are we ready for that ? (i do not think so)
Should we do it ? (i think we should save our money for now and do the legwork in the privacy scene 1st)

just my 2 Duff's !
 

TanteStefana

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Being that I love Edward Snowden for what he's done, I have to agree with Tungfa in that he is now well insulated from the public. We won't be able to get to him but through others, and if they think we just want to use his name for our product, we'll just get the door shut in our face.

So what to do? Well, I think we could start donating, and maybe open up a dialog with his handlers (I'm calling them that, but I realize they're really his protectors). In the mean time, if v13 is going to happen within the next 6 months, then, after getting to know his people and hopefully gaining trust, we could also ask if Mr. Snowden would be interested in doing a review of our currency. I highly suspect that if the USA's next president is more of a libertarian (and boy, I've been seeing a LOT of libertarian bumper stickers lately, and I live in a VERY liberal town) I think Mr. Snowden will be pardoned. Lets make friends. Lets make this a project for the foundation, as an official face of Dash, to make friends with his people. We could develop a long term relationship with him. And when he is pardoned and his name is cleared, he could be the best friend we ever had.

I honestly think that our philosophy and his are a great match. Only opening dialog will verify that. In the mean time, he is well cared for and us giving him a couple of grand isn't going to "buy" him. He obviously has integrity. And that's his #1 asset. Lets earn his respect, but that takes commitment and time. But yes, lets do something in this direction! Maybe a little under the wire, not so loud. We get this thing funded, then let the foundation do it's work. We can get reports from the foundation on how its going, but we don't scream it to the world "hey, we got Snowden on our side!" This is something, if we're smart, we build up a relationship, a trust, and in a year or so, when Snowden is a free man, he might agree to something fantastic, like being the face of Dash in commercials, etc... But this can only happen if Mr. Snowden also believes in Dash.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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Being that I love Edward Snowden for what he's done, I have to agree with Tungfa in that he is now well insulated from the public. We won't be able to get to him but through others, and if they think we just want to use his name for our product, we'll just get the door shut in our face.

So what to do? Well, I think we could start donating, and maybe open up a dialog with his handlers (I'm calling them that, but I realize they're really his protectors). In the mean time, if v13 is going to happen within the next 6 months, then, after getting to know his people and hopefully gaining trust, we could also ask if Mr. Snowden would be interested in doing a review of our currency. I highly suspect that if the USA's next president is more of a libertarian (and boy, I've been seeing a LOT of libertarian bumper stickers lately, and I live in a VERY liberal town) I think Mr. Snowden will be pardoned. Lets make friends. Lets make this a project for the foundation, as an official face of Dash, to make friends with his people. We could develop a long term relationship with him. And when he is pardoned and his name is cleared, he could be the best friend we ever had.

I honestly think that our philosophy and his are a great match. Only opening dialog will verify that. In the mean time, he is well cared for and us giving him a couple of grand isn't going to "buy" him. He obviously has integrity. And that's his #1 asset. Lets earn his respect, but that takes commitment and time. But yes, lets do something in this direction! Maybe a little under the wire, not so loud. We get this thing funded, then let the foundation do it's work. We can get reports from the foundation on how its going, but we don't scream it to the world "hey, we got Snowden on our side!" This is something, if we're smart, we build up a relationship, a trust, and in a year or so, when Snowden is a free man, he might agree to something fantastic, like being the face of Dash in commercials, etc... But this can only happen if Mr. Snowden also believes in Dash.
So how do we open a dialogue? What's our first move in this?
 
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AnarchicCluster

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So how do we open a dialogue? What's our first move in this?
AS Tante said. We have to start working with Snowden's "handlers" (protectors sounds better) I am guessing it would be great to reach out to EFF and The Intercept. At this point I am not sure what we would tell them. Maybe give them a quick overview of Dash, tell them how it can benefit finances of their organisations and at the end asked them if they could start accepting donations in DASH. If they do, it would give us some nice publicity (maybe the word would even get to Edward) and at that point we could start thinking about our next move.
 

TanteStefana

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Great way to start, AnarchicCluster, IMO. I think a reoccurring budget of 600 coins sounds great, we can have the foundation collect them and give them to the appropriate people while establishing a dialogue. The foundation is under our employ. We can ask them to do this for us, and with their policy of transparency in accounts, we can watch what is happening. I think it's perfectly secure. Evan is the current head of the foundation, he is approximately the same age as Mr. Snowden, they're both technologically inclined. Evan is the face of Dash, I know he is working hard, but it would be best if he were the one to establish communication, along with some of the others. I suspect they could hit it off well, if they could ever actually communicate with each other.

It's really a long term, no instant satisfaction kind of proposal, but I think most if not all of us here are in it for the very long haul (changing the world). Or? So an investment from the Dash Virtual Corporation, in establishing relationships, seems to me to be a very valid and important function. Mr. Snowden doesn't have to be the only one we reach out to either, though he's the obvious first.
 
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tungfa

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AS Tante said. We have to start working with Snowden's "handlers" (protectors sounds better) I am guessing it would be great to reach out to EFF and The Intercept. At this point I am not sure what we would tell them. Maybe give them a quick overview of Dash, tell them how it can benefit finances of their organisations and at the end asked them if they could start accepting donations in DASH. If they do, it would give us some nice publicity (maybe the word would even get to Edward) and at that point we could start thinking about our next move.
i agree
the key is to start that slow (and string up the horse from the back / das pferd von hinten aufziehen)

we should not even reach out to snodwen or Greenwald (handler) but start with Intercept + EFF
approach them professional from the core team, no donations, no offers, just explaining how much better it would be (for them) to accept Dash Donations (privacy).
And parallel we should do the same with WikiLeaks, ...... there is a whole list of places i do not have on hand now.....
start that communication accross the board with all Privacy Concerned-Deserve / Freedom Loving/ ... Foundations and Outlets. Eventually one after the other (fingers crossed) will start to accept Dash (then we have to make sure they actually get donations in Dash)
and then
we can take this to the next level and talk to Greenwald, Snowden or wherever else we want to take this.

If the above happens it has to be handles very professional and in a sensitive /conscious/.... way !
Are we really supporting these causes ? or are we just hunting for PR ?
we better be very clear with ourself and the community that we ARE supporting these causes, otherwise this will not happen, as we will just be fishing for cheap PR on the back of great, nessacery, important causes and foundations !!

+ we would be reaching in 'sensitive' territory there, and it might be a good idea to hear from evan and core guys if we are actually ready for that
(tech wise, but message and philosophy wise as well)

(sorry, i am a bit in a rush here, otherwise i would have expressed myself better and more clear ... dam phone)
 

TanteStefana

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I don't know, I just realized I'm not sure about supporting wikileaks. Their policy of putting everything out in the open instead of considering the damage they might cause (death of people, etc..) makes me realize some people may not "support" what Snowden did (though I can't imagine it except for unthinking reactionaries)

So I'm wondering if we can't do this a different way, not to support causes but to find a common ground with them. Something both sides, the Dash Virtual Currency and the entity, be it Snowden, Wikileaks, the Greek government or National Geographic, can come together on. Both sides want to support and get the word out on, fund, etc...

Say we talk to Snowden about privacy, and control of government spending by taking the economy out of their hands. And then approach Wikileaks with ways to help protect their sources via an untraceable funding system, or National Geographic with a shared vision of banking the unbanked.

As long as the community, or Dash Virtual Corporation's best interests and the other entities best interests are the binding glue, I think it'd be better than stepping into politics that some community members would not be able to agree with.
 

David

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AS Tante said. We have to start working with Snowden's "handlers" (protectors sounds better) I am guessing it would be great to reach out to EFF and The Intercept. At this point I am not sure what we would tell them. Maybe give them a quick overview of Dash, tell them how it can benefit finances of their organisations and at the end asked them if they could start accepting donations in DASH. If they do, it would give us some nice publicity (maybe the word would even get to Edward) and at that point we could start thinking about our next move.
I agree. I would rather start by donating to the EFF and getting their attention. They could then be an entre to Snowden or other things.

I'm torn on my opinions of Snowden. I'm glad we now know the things he revealed, but technically he committed treason. It's a lot to swallow. For that reason--the controversy--I would rather we support the EFF or some less controversial entity that is aligned with our goals. I also think we need to be aware that any coins we send them will be unceremoniously dumped on the market as well.
 

camosoul

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Lets not pretend. We do want this for his name. But, that's not ALL we want, and we can both do good without each other. It's just better that we team up.
 
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tungfa

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Lets not pretend. We do want this for his name. But, that's not ALL we want, and we can both do good without each other. It's just better that we team up.
totally
but if we approach this that obvious we might scare them off
as they do not know nothing about us (probably)
 
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paperThin

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OK, I hope not to make everyone mad... It looks like there are a bunch of Snowden lovers here!
I disagree with "doing good in the world" with the budget at this point:
  • First, is that a core value of dash? That sounds more like Dogecoin to me. Plus, there are so many good things in the world to do. Really? Giving Snowden money is that our highest priority? What about Moli's proposal and we voted it down. We decided not to pay people who actually HELPED Dash improve by working on testnet. I'm not saying the terms were the best for that proposal, but no one denies that the people who test the testnet do a huge service and put a lot of time into it. I am asking (and trying to open up discussion) are we really going to start "doing good in the world" with our budget?
  • Second, if we decide that we will start doing "feel good" things... what about a million other things that people care about? Which ones will we pick? I think our voting system is ideal for this feature, but we really need a bunch of charity items so that MN's can vote which one. I saw someone was mentioning an idea for this... can't wait to see that.
  • Third, I completely agree with everyone saying that this has a publicity angle. So, if we were doing this for the BENEFIT of dash then I think it is a valid idea (my opinion). Then, we are voting on whether we think it is the best use of the budget. Maybe there are better ideas for publicity or maybe Snowden is best. I don't think the emotional side (for whichever charity) should be the top factor (again my opinion).
I am actually neutral about Snowden. Also, I am a fan and participant of charitable giving. For the person who suggested this idea... I love that! The more ideas that come to the surface, the better. I just saw so many people running away with this idea and no counter-arguments... let me know what you think.
 
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TanteStefana

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I want to apologize for my comment on people who wouldn't support Snowden, I kinda knew I shouldn't write that, LOL (I said unthinking reactionaries) There are good reasons for being conflicted about what he did, and there may have been other ways of doing it, though I do think he had good reason to think it wouldn't have worked any other way. Anyway, no offense, David, my husband is also conflicted, and I actually do understand. Sometimes I'm brashly opinionated. However, your point is exactly my point above yours :D

paperThin, would you be willing to work with people and organizations that you don't fully support on things that you both fully support? Like perhaps, with Snowden on privacy? Or wikileaks on how to successfully fund outside projects protected against governments? Stuff like that? Not necessarily exactly what they are doing, but in common ground areas? I think that could work. Here is one from the Snowden Laura Glen ask me anything reddit of earlier this year:

There is and it is called the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 updated in 2012. Unfortunately, it does not apply to the intelligence community. More unfortunately, the protections conferred by the act are determined in a case by case basis by the United States Merit Systems Protection Board which pretty much always sides with the Government and not with the whistleblower.

There certainly should be some way to oversee what the Government is doing, and if people can't step up and blow the whistle, even in a way that doesn't put information at risk, then we have tyranny.

Note, I'm just pulling possible common ground ideas out of my butt, so I haven't thought through whether or not those particular subjects would indeed be common ground, they're only examples :)

The reason doing such things is for exposure, to benefit Dash, there is no denying that. Edward Snowden does what he does, to help clear his name and forward his cause as well.
 
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paperThin

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Tante, I think it would be impossible to get all the MN's to agree on even the simplest objective. That's why the voting is so great. We can disagree but the majority wins. If a MN owner can't live with the decision, they can just sell off their Dash or whatever they want!
I never thought about it until you asked, but yes there would be limits that would make it very difficult for me to stay involved with this community. For example, let's say the majority decided to donate to a politician that was Pro-cryptocoin. If I disagreed with this candidate on other policies and did not want that person as a leader... I could live with that. However, if we started arming rebel forces to take over Canada :) then I would probably want to disassociate myself from the group. Capiche?
So in short.. yes and no ;) Thanks for your response!

Also, I do believe that crypto is bigger than government(s). I believe we have a major game-changer on our hands if governments fail to suppress it!
 
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GreyGhost

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I have to chime in. When i see smart people, mostnly on the side of justice and freedom go and mindlesly regurgitate unsubstantial governmental propaganda I get mildly upset. First my favorite Tante:

Their policy of putting everything out in the open instead of considering the damage they might cause (death of people, etc..) makes me realize some people may not "support" what Snowden did (though I can't imagine it except for unthinking reactionaries)
Aside spewing vile propaganda, there is no claim by official sources that WikiLeaks has caused the death of a single individual anywhere in the world. That is a fact.

"Putting everything out in the open" is a nonsense; Wikileaks uses a "harm minimization process," by which they redact the material precisely in order to protect the lives. At the other hand, the government had indeed killed millions of innocent civilians all over the world and put a whistle-blower (Manning), exposing our atrocities, to jail while the murderers are free.

I'm torn on my opinions of Snowden. I'm glad we now know the things he revealed, but technically he committed treason. It's a lot to swallow.
This is a good one, "treason." Let us first examine what constitutes a treason. 18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."

Snowden is waging a war against the US? He adheres to their enemies? Giving them comfort within the United States? (while abroad, at that) ALL he has done was to give the American people an information about egregious crimes against constitutional guaranteed rights. Allow me to use only one example, Amendment IV (of the U.S. Constitution) states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."

What "they" do, snooping and searching ALL the world's PRIVATE communications, placing trojans into our properties etc., renders US, the people, ALL of us, as the enemies and for sure does not render Snowden a traitor who committed a treason, no less. So, kindly let us think with our own heads and not regurgitate government propagandist garbage, please.

And if anyone wants to nitpick and go on how Wikileaks, Snowden, Manning et.al. have committed some sort of crime or broke the law, kindly go back to the aftermath of the World War II and remember the words of the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal (1950): "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."

If any of you thinks what our magnanimous governments, accusing their conscious and I'd dare to say patriotic citizens of "treason" (and putting them in jails) are doing is not a "crime against peace and humanity," well then...

I shall say no more...
 
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David

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I have to chime in. When i see smart people, mostnly on the side of justice and freedom go and mindlesly regurgitate unsubstantial governmental propaganda I get mildly upset. First my favorite Tante:



Aside spewing vile propaganda, there is no claim by official sources that WikiLeaks has caused the death of a single individual anywhere in the world. That is a fact.

"Putting everything out in the open" is a nonsense; Wikileaks uses a "harm minimization process," by which they redact the material precisely in order to protect the lives. At the other hand, the government had indeed killed millions of innocent civilians all over the world and put a whistle-blower (Manning), exposing our atrocities, to jail while the murderers are free.



This is a good one, "treason." Let us first examine what constitutes a treason. 18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."

Snowden is waging a war against the US? He adheres to their enemies? Giving them comfort within the United States? (while abroad, at that) ALL he has done was to give the American people an information about egregious crimes against constitutional guaranteed rights. Allow me to use only one example, Amendment IV (of the U.S. Constitution) states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."

What "they" do, snooping and searching ALL the world's PRIVATE communications, placing trojans into our properties etc., renders US, the people, ALL of us, as the enemies and for sure does not render Snowden a traitor who committed a treason, no less. So, kindly let us think with our own heads and not regurgitate government propagandist garbage, please.

And if anyone wants to nitpick and go on how Wikileaks, Snowden, Manning et.al. have committed some sort of crime or broke the law, kindly go back to the aftermath of the World War II and remember the words of the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal (1950): "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."

If any of you thinks what our magnanimous governments, accusing their conscious and I'd dare to say patriotic citizens of "treason" (and putting them in jails) are doing is not a "crime against peace and humanity," well then...

I shall say no more...
If we are aiming for mainstream adoption, this is the type of extremist* viewpoint that we need to keep from projecting, at least when using "official" (budget system) money. Individuals are of course free to donate to whatever causes they wish.

*I don't mean this in an unkind way at all. But your position, while it undoubtedly has merit, falls far outside the spectrum of "mainstream." While there is definitely value in outlying opinions, I'm not sure we (as a project) should ally ourselves with them.
 

GreyGhost

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While I said I shall say no more I ought to comment :)

The only "extremists" I am aware of are the fascists ruling our country into killing, pillaging and maiming all over the world, prosecuting whistle-blowers, threatening journalistic and small defenseless countries alike (even invoking a threat, like our magnanimous leaders are doing, daily, with Iran constitutes a grave violation of the Geneva Convention, peace and basic human sanity) while, at the same time are involved in the creating, maintaining and vastly expanding the worst dystopian nightmare of pan-spying and violating the privacy of every human being on Earth ever.

But I get your meaning: to tell the truth and to, for the argument sake, invoke the highest moral court our civilization has ever created - an American lead Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal - and to quote the best freedom promoting document ever made by any country, the U.S. Constitution is an extremist view.

How deeply deranged this world has became is beyond me. But I agree: if we want to go mainstream we should go full fascist, Facebook and Lady Gaga.
 
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camosoul

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there may have been other ways of doing it, though I do think he had good reason to think it wouldn't have worked any other way.
It would have made no difference. Some people are so dedicated to their agendas, they don't care about reality. I.e. anti-gunners. Just an example... Some people are blind zealots detached from reality with no intention of becoming attached.

And moreso, sometimes there is no good option, only the least terrible option. I believe that is what Snowden did. Again, gun reference, self-defense... The least bad option still sucks. Those trained to be weak sheeple haven't the stomach to handle reality and become victims. This is often the very objective of truly insidious people. They create a harmful circumstance, from which they can profit, which has no good solution. That way, anyone who disrupts it is "the bad guy." That is, essentially, the definition of government. Imagine if all anti-gun laws were repealed tomorrow? The carnage of a bunch of people trained to be irresponsible dumbasses after all this time, all buying $50 machine guns on the same day... Eventually it would even out, but in the meantime... Snowden faced essentially the same problem. No matter what he did, it would be considered "wrong" and cause a serious shitstorm. But, eventually, the message got through and many people grew up and stopped trusting their evil guv. Still not enough, but some...

It is impossible to pick up a turd from the clean end. Snowden manned-up and did what had to be done. Zealots will always be pissed, still others are impossible to please. The clueless form opinions without any basis in fact. If you make your choices based on the opinions of the clueless, well... You won't be accomplishing much with your life, just like the clueless people...

Freedom is lost in small pieces over time, but it is only reclaimed in big, ugly, bloody chunks. That's just the nature of it. The sheeple don't have the stomach for it. It's uncivilized. I say; slavery is even less so. Not only because of the nature of those who take that freedom from us, but by the nature of those robbed of their freedoms also being robbed of the knowledge of responsibly handling their freedoms once restored. Freedoms carry Responsibilities, when the freedom is lost, then so is the education for handling it. This is the true danger. It must be learned again. But in the very midst of that chaos, as freedom draws it's first breath, those failing to be responsible are already calling out for it's elimination because they can't be asked to step up and take responsibility. The slippery slope begins even in that first moment of revolution...

Regulate Bitcoin, they said. Mt. Gox, they said... Stop expecting to be taken care of, I say. Pull you head out of your ass, I say. Asking for the chains to be put back on after only experiencing their removal for a moment... OF course there will be fuckups. No one has ever know the freedom of Separation of Money and State. Don't cray out for imprisonment, again, just because it is familiar. Learn from the mistake.

I prefer the Sun in my eyes and occasional sunburn, to having it snuffed out.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

Snowden may not be considered a Nationalist Patriot, but as Einstein often pontificated, that's a good thing. He's a patriot to citizens of the human race, no matter which piece of dirt they stand on. No government, or sycophantic toady bootlicker, will ever like that. They seek division, not unity.

Another example of how easy it is to buy off freedom... Since the NFA was enacted in 1934, a wide variety of cheap, simple guns and safety equipment have been demonized, and placed out of reach of normal people by bureaucratic hurdles and absurd taxes. In 1986, it was expanded to an absolute ban on the civilian manufacture of Machine Guns. Unless you're a well-connected millionaire bootlicker, you just plain can't get one of the few in limited supply that was made prior to 1986. They're really fucking expensive. To my understanding, there is only one Hughes Heligun in existence, and the last time it sold, it was for half a million dollars. That's just one example... Even a cheap, beat to hell pre-86 transferable M11 will cost you a minimum of $10,000. Do you think people who spent that much money on bragging rights want to lose that value by voting for the decriminalization of machine guns? Even though not a single NFA machine gun was EVER used in a crime! So, why are they illegal in the first place? What problem did banning them solve? Nothing. If no crimes were ever committed with one, then how can crime be prevented by eliminating them? It's an object... Now that the persecution has been accepted as the norm, how do you fight it? How do those who bought-in to the violation give up the huge amount of money the spent?

If you spent $500,000 on a boatload of slaves, you probably wouldn't want to lose that investment, either... Even if you know it's wrong. The persecuted adapt and integrate to the new environment, some can't live without it... Maintaining the status quo, no matter how evil, is often a matter of survival for those who are unable to function without it. For people like this, Snowden is their enemy.

If I want to get on a boat and sail the Bahamas, I can enter that country with a machine gun, and they don't even give a damn. Piracy is on the rise in the Caribbean. There are plenty of places you just plain don't want to go. Their customs agents will tell you "You're going to need it where you're going!" But where will I buy that machine gun since there's nowhere left on Earth that allows it...

I guess I need a really big boat with a machine shop on it... And a currency that has no government.
 
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TanteStefana

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Alas, as always, I totally agree with you Camo.

"It is impossible to pick up a turd from the clean end." Ah, poetry! LOL

And you too, Grey Ghost!

My parents were born and grew up until the age of about 12 in Nazi Germany. I was sheltered about those days until about Jr. High, when I started to learn what happened and about WWII. Since then, I swore I would never ever let it happen again if I could help it. My Mom was certain it could never happen in "magical" USA, but I never could see why not, and as more years flow away from WWII, I see us getting closer and closer to that same mentality, the worst being that the Government will take care of you. To me, that is the beginning of the end.

So, I think you could safely say that deep down inside, I'm paranoid on this subject.
 
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TanteStefana

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If we are aiming for mainstream adoption, this is the type of extremist* viewpoint that we need to keep from projecting, at least when using "official" (budget system) money. Individuals are of course free to donate to whatever causes they wish.

*I don't mean this in an unkind way at all. But your position, while it undoubtedly has merit, falls far outside the spectrum of "mainstream." While there is definitely value in outlying opinions, I'm not sure we (as a project) should ally ourselves with them.
And I agree with you. We have to be main stream, but I feel we can do that by partnering up, even with semi extremists, but who are high profile, on subjects we can both agree on, and that are foundational to Dash :)
 
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