Ben Swann has been defunded. Keep him out. Vote good ones in.

Argon31

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Seeing the comments and how the voting has progressed on the Ben Swann Proposal, It is clear that there are higher and stronger forces that are controlling the DAO and average mns have next to no real say when it comes to the crunch.

The notion that Ben is adding any value to real adoption is ludicrous and I think agree that 2 Million Dollars has largely been wasted or pocketed by Swann. He must think this is easy.

Despite over 450 no votes, enough to sink any proposal, The Ben swann proposal was passed today morning with underhand tactics like pushing out strike social with a no-cause no vote to get ben in.
African proposals, analytics and other ones have also paid the price as will countless others in the next few months since the budget has been given away to swann.


Ben himself has been lying through about accounts and has failed to provide a single truthful justification yet. Benn Swann is using the treasury to make super normal private gains, building a million dollar studio for himself. He has failed to give any accounts or rationale for why he needs the money except to put into his own pocket.

However, subservients like @thedesertlynx always chime in with their support as invisible forces wake up nodes and vote in whoever they want. MNs are simply wasting their time studying proposals in a rigged system.

Starting next month, get ready for no budget for anyone else except core favorites as the price continues to fall, since no one really cares for users.

Businesses that dont care for their actual users and waste money on fluff don't last long and there are countless examples of that in silicon valley.

We are killing our own ability to innovate, one ben swann at a time.

@djcrypto @DeepBlue @QuantumExplorer @Dashmaximalist @Name3
 
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RobbyDash01

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We've all felt the heat with the market dip. Ben has felt the burn too. Let see what he can deliver now. He knows this isn't a free ride. But for now he has the support.
 
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JGCMiner

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Those with provablely the most money at stake vote on proposals — for better or worse. Those are the rules and complaining about them if a vote doesn’t go your way frankly looks petty.

If the MNOs make bad decisions it will affect our pockets the most so to imply that we are working against the DAO or sucking up to certain entities at the expense of the DAO makes no sense.

Plus, look on the bright side. Currently, Dash is cheap. If you are so disgusted with MNO decisions then you can always buy enough nodes to have a tangible effect on the vote yourself.
 
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Argon31

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@JGCMiner How will a few more votes for me or you make a tangible difference when 100's are controlled by a few people.
True decentralization is still quite far.

Nearly 1500 votes have been cast for swann and others have to compete with 700 votes or so. Sounds fair?

Btw, Seems like Ben Swann is defunded this month for now.
 
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TroyDASH

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How many topics do you need to create about this? The most controversial proposals are the ones that will have the highest participation. Ben Swann's proposal is controversial, has a high participation, and you're using this to claim a core team centralized conspiracy...
 

Argon31

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I would merge threads if possible.

I understand but as a NON US citizen I find it crazy to spend 800 on swann with a 99% us audience and 1000 on feedbands without returns.

Nobody cares much about return of investments on a global level and I am disappointed which is the only reason I am posting.

I can see a cosy circle of old mns patting each others back. You already know those people and goes against decentralization.
My posts are against that kind of groupism, @TroyDASH
 
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TroyDASH

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I would merge threads if possible.

I understand but as a NON US citizen I find it crazy to spend 800 on swann with a 99% us audience and 1000 on feedbands without returns.

Nobody cares much about return of investments on a global level and I am disappointed which is the only reason I am posting.

I can see a cosy circle of old mns patting each others back. You already know those people and goes against decentralization.
My posts are against that kind of groupism, @TroyDASH
(There wouldn't be a need to merge in the first place if you wouldn't keep creating new topics on the same thing...)

It's obvious that you're disappointed, but this cozy circle of masternodes is a fabrication of your imagination. There are a lot of proposals that pass that I don't like either, but I'm not assuming that the majority is wrought with corruption.
 

dashnode

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Nov 28, 2017
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@Argon31 , I am also disappointed with dash, for reasons not necessarily identical to yours.
Let all disappointed dashers join together. Why dont you sign for a hard fork?

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/people-who-would-like-to-participate-in-a-dash-hard-fork.21290/
Ok, you fork the blockchain. I am happy to have coins on each chain.

Let's face it, at the moment the most valuable part of Dash is Dash Core Group. Decentralisation has it's benefits, but so does centralisation.
 

feedbands

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Argon, I would like to politely and respectfully ask what you consider a return on investment to be?
 
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demo

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Ok, you fork the blockchain. I am happy to have coins on each chain.

Let's face it, at the moment the most valuable part of Dash is Dash Core Group. Decentralisation has it's benefits, but so does centralisation.
I cannot fork it alone!
I have nothing else, than a rasberry pi 3 and a slow internet connection.
Let’s make Dash fork the first blockchain technology spreading everywhere through a swarm of tiny machines.
But I need your support.... The dash community should understand that there is a huge corruption among masternodes, and a great amount of lack of accountability. This should change.
 

solarguy

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@JGCMiner How will a few more votes for me or you make a tangible difference when 100's are controlled by a few people.
True decentralization is still quite far.
What a bold assertion. Do you have a lick of evidence to prove it?

The graph on Dash vote tracker suggests that the yes votes came in in little trickles of 1's, 2's and 3's. That would suggest the complete opposite.


I would ask respectfully, again, for like the 4th time, have you ever participated on this forum under another name?
 
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demo

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What a bold assertion. Do you have a lick of evidence to prove it?

The graph on Dash vote tracker suggests that the yes votes came in in little trickles of 1's, 2's and 3's. That would suggest the complete opposite.
Dont try to full the newbie.
We all know that you use vote obfuscators, that cast the votes in random time slots.

Additionaly. after the votehash invention, you randomly keep your vote in old expired sentinel proposals. Thats how you obfuscate votehash too.
 

solarguy

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Dont try to full the newbie.
We all know that you use vote obfuscators, that cast the votes in random time slots.
There are some timing adjustments, but not big timing adjustments. Go look at the graph yourself. There are big blocks of "no" votes. But no big blocks of "yes" votes.

And even if your premise is correct, then it is impossible for Argon31 to have any proof of his assertion, yes?
 

demo

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Arthyron

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Oh look, @Argon31 came to complain because he didn't get his way...again...that never happens...

The preliminary analytics from some of the other proposals pretty clearly indicate that there are simply not many MNOs with dozens and dozens of MNs. The vast majority of the nodes are held and vote as individuals, with only a small amount having more than one and and even smaller amount with many. These may have pushed Ben's proposal over the edge, but that doesn't mean the average MNO doesn't have a say or that their vote doesn't count. You're just upset because things are going the way you want them to, plain and simple. Too bad. That's what happened.

Making one thread to voice your concerns is reasonable, but multiple threads now basically makes you a serial whiner. Why are you even here? Are you even a MNO? What actual stake do you have in Dash? As far as I can tell, your only contribution to Dash is whining and being rude to proposal owners...a real asset to the DAO...
 
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DeepBlue

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I would like to say I really appreciate the feedback from @Argon31 and all the feedback and points of view in this thread. It is only through intelligent and constructive debate like this that we work through these issues and become clearer on our decisions. I have to commend @Argon31 for having the courage to voice his views against so many pro Ben Swann supporters. It takes courage, passion and a strong set of principals to do that. I may not totally agree with Mr Argon31 however a lot of what he is saying makes a lot of sense. I am hoping that Mr Swann is going to deliver on his commitments in the proposal. Let us see if it was worth the investment.

@Argon31 thank you for your contributions to this discussion.
 

Argon31

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Thank you for for the appreciation @DeepBlue . I am definitely not used to getting much around here.

As I mentioned to you before, I am disappointed that you chose to give up the fight to have Ben Swann Voted out and let him have 13%.
When people like you stop taking charge, this is what happens.

When some of the excellent proposals this month will choke for lack of budget- mainly the Venezuela ones, the freelancer one, anypay(12 mth is dumb tho)
the 800+513 being wasted is going to come back to haunt us. This could fund 10 proposals.

This will keep repeating.

But people dont care because they are too busy playing their little games.
DAO or no dao, corporations work the same way.
 
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DeepBlue

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Hello Argon, the reason I voted was because I calculated that all the Venezuela projects would go through last month and they all went through. This month I expect all the Venezuela projects to go through as well. If there is a chance that the Venezuela projects will not go through then I will be the first to vote down any other project including the Ben Swann proposal. For me valid Venezuela projects take president over every other project with the exception of funding some of the DASH core projects. So far I have not seen any valid Venezuela projects excluded. If I am wrong please correct me.

People at DASH should appreciate it when anyone makes valid comments on a proposal whether for or against. As long as comments are not directed personally towards anyone but focused on the arguments people are making DASH will benefit. I say again I really appreciate your comments and I have a lot of admiration for you and your strength of character in voicing your opinions in a constructive way.
 

Argon31

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@DeepBlue I think you and others are doing the venezuela ecosystem a disservice by blindly supporting everything venezuela. You should still allow for doubting and vote down inflated ones, asking more than 80. Teams have become corrupt and are profiting like mad, like what happened with africa before. Not to diss any of the great work done.

I read some some of your comments on them and it seems like you arent subjecting them to same levels of scrutiny that others are getting.

I dont intend this as criticism but constructive feedback. Ben swann and feedbands are obviously killing many good proposals, go and have a look..
They are already getting voted down because no budget is available.
 

DeepBlue

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@Argon31 thank you for your feedback. I would like to clarify some of the points you've made. First I do not "blindly support everything Venezuela" there are quite a number of projects I have not voted for that were Venezuela projects and others I've voiced very strongly against e.g. I did not agree with the the David Hay Venezuela initiative and I posted messages explaining exactly why I do not agree with that project. I had a lot of resistance from pro David Hay supporters along with David Hay himself on my feedback.

Other Venezuela projects I voted down because I can see they are either not well thought out or the project itself is not right in some way to the goal of helping Venezuela convert to DASH as their primary currency. We only have so many funds in the budget and If we can convert Venezuela to DASH that would be a huge achievement. Venezuela's GDP in 2017 was 356 Billion USD all of that could be in DASH. That would bring stability to the DASH price because for the first time we would have large scale practical users of the currency rather than investors and speculators. In addition the world wide PR on this would be huge.

The comments I made on Venezuela projects were after doing my due diligence - if they were positive comments it was because I genuinely thought they were good projects after doing my assessment on them. The proposals were based on stats, with full accounts breakdown and a well actioned plan, video intro to the team and even infographics. No I am not saying that all Venezuela projects get rubber stamped by me. If I see something that is not right or not clear I will raise it with them. I also have regular correspondence with a core member of the Venezuela projects who provides additional background information on all the Venezuela projects. The teams I am speaking to are working together in a united efforts so most of them know the others and are actively supporting them.

The reason I am very pro Venezuela is because after a lot of market analysis of my own since September of 2017 to the current date I could see that Venezuela is as about a perfect opportunity as exists for DASH to be established as their national currency whilst at the same time solving a terrible problem for the Venezuelan people that has been going on for many years with their currency. Not only this Venezuela is in fact one of the richest countries in the world with the largest oil reserves of any other country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves So once the country gets on its feet with a solid currency again (DASH) it will be able to invest in its petroleum infrastructure and release that reserve of wealth.

I also like the way the Venezuela projects are put together and promoted because they put the DASH name up and foremost in all their campaigns - at least the projects I'm interested in. I particularly like this because DASH has the double benefit of building its brand whilst at the same time getting a valuable service in return. We get free advertising and brand awareness with the Venezuela projects. Unlike other projects which I disagree strongly with that are building their own brand with our DASH funding.

In my opinion projects that are heavily funded or founded by DASH should first consider using our DASH brand upfront with their campaign so that we benefit from the brand exposure. There are some projects that are just putting our name in the background, rather like an afterthought. But in addition those projects that do not use our DASH brand name upfront present a risk that they could just swap over to using any other crypto at any time because they built their network using their brand name. This is a form of centralization. Whereas if the DASH Brand name is used it is more decentralized because they cannot just swop over to using another crypto once they built their network with our name. The Venezuela projects respect our brand name and are now using it upfront on most of their projects. There were some earlier projects that did not use our brand however now I see that most of them are. I think that the MNO's are not seeing the tremendous value of our Brand being used upfront with some of the campaigns that could so easily use our brand as their organization name.

When you say some good proposals are getting voted down which one's are you referring to in particular? Some projects are getting voted down because they really are not that good or there are some doubts about them or their leadership. I would prefer not to say which ones. Everyone needs to do their own due diligence. I will raise points when I think it is necessary or if it would be beneficial.

If the DASH community could focus more on achieving helping Venezuela convert to DASH rather than spreading our energy, time and resources over hundreds of un related projects we could help Venezuela establish DASH within 1 year as their national currency I am absolutely convinced of that. If that occurs DASH would have more than 3 x the market cap of Bitcoin. Then once other people world wide see that DASH is established in Venezuela and is the reason for the stability in the DASH price we will attract even more investors organically without having to do any other marketing, or at least minimal marketing. The world media would pick up the story. This is why I feel DASH community needs to focus on Venezuela.

Other reasons: The Bitcoin transactions fees are still too high for it to take off in Venezuela at $2 to $3 for a transaction this makes small purchases not affordable. In addition an average wage now in Venezuela is just $2 / day. Who would want to spend a day's money on making a transaction when they can do a similar transaction with DASH for less than a cent?

Now is the time for DASH to move. We must move quickly and in a coordinated response with all we've got. Lack of focus is our greatest risk we must focus on achieving this goal.

There is one other point I wanted to make on Venezuela projects. They always ask for small moderate sums of money which means our risk is minimal if something goes wrong with the projects. We have to be realistic some projects might not work - just as not all businesses work. But because the Venezuela projects are all modestly funded it is not a big deal for us.

The other big advantage of having dozens of smaller projects that are all working on the same goal is that it is another form of decentralization. This gives even more strength and credibility to these projects and the Venezuela projects fulfil this.

This is why I am such a strong supporter of valid and well thought out Venezuela projects. I am not a supporter of all Venezuela projects just because they have the word "Venezuela" in them. I do my homework before supporting the ones I do.

I agree that we have a huge risk with projects that are asking for large sums of money. By large sums I mean anything over 150 DASH is starting to take a significant risk. I would rather dozens of projects between 10 to 150 DASH. Projects with funding in the range of 10 - 150 DASH helps to promote smaller, more focused ventures and therefore helps to maintain decentralization on the promotions and therefore lower risk.

From now on I am definitely going to favour significantly more projects that meet these criteria:

1. Smaller decentralized projects (less risk and more secure)
2. that give us a lot of value for modest price i.e. between 10 DASH to 150 DASH (less risk for us and it is not promoting a large centralized organization creation which is what we want to prevent. We've had enough of large powerful organizations controlling us.)
3. That address a specific niche within a larger project e.g. Venezuela projects that have many different niche teams. (clearer more focused messages)
4. Projects that are working to achieve a bigger goal e.g. Venezuela
5. Projects that are practical not Advertising or Sponsorships (Projects that give real tangible value to the user or solve a problem)
6. Projects that solve real actual problems for users. ( I love these projects because they give true value and people adopt through utility)
7. Projects that are sustainable i.e. can support themselves once we provide the seed capital. (Again utility projects)
8. DASH brand upfront ( we gain brand awareness as well as the service / product)
10. Projects that have a pre-proposal with feedback. (The team have already received a lot of feedback for their proposal before they post it. They care more)
11. Proposals that can show they have some credibility e.g. connection with existing project or are a specialist in their own field. (We need experts working on these projects as much as possible. It is hard enough to make a project work on its own. Alternatively people that have the skill sets necessary but may not have the specific expertise in that field)
12. Projects with proposals that are well laid out and presented with full cost breakdown, timelines, infographics (helps MNO quickly get a grasp of the project and shows they care on the project)
13. The project leads are shown on video so we know who they are and they are accountable.
14. Projects with leaders that interact well with the DASH community and provide frequent updates on their projects.
15. Projects that promote exclusively DASH and not other cryptos.
16. Projects with good leadership where the leaders who respond positively to constructive feedback. They then take positive fully accountable steps to improve their proposal based on feedback. (some project leaders say they are going to do something just to get the project then do not deliver on what they said they would do).

I will be preferably focussing on giving my support to the above types of projects from now on. I am not saying I will be exclusively giving my support only for the projects that meet the above criteria but I am saying I would show strong preferences for these types of projects.

Thanks for your feedback I see it as constructive feedback and has helped others understand more clearly the situation.
 
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Argon31

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Venezuela projects are starting to get greedy. There is one asking for $70,000 to organize a few conferences in venezuela and it is only the start.
Profiteering has started in a big way.

I like the 16 criteria you have made, I wrote something like that. It is there on the forum.
Would be interested to know how many of those parameters do Kuvacash, Feedbands and Ben Swann fulfil?

If you are still voting for any of these guys despite not meeting any of this criteria then I feel it is only for the small fries.

You have good intentions when it comes using budget smartly but what use are those intentions if you still vote for 0 Roi projects despite knowing.
In ways it is worse.
 

Bambu2015

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Venezuela projects are starting to get greedy. There is one asking for $70,000 to organize a few conferences in venezuela and it is only the start.
Profiteering has started in a big way.

I like the 16 criteria you have made, I wrote something like that. It is there on the forum.
Would be interested to know how many of those parameters do Kuvacash, Feedbands and Ben Swann fulfil?

If you are still voting for any of these guys despite not meeting any of this criteria then I feel it is only for the small fries.

You have good intentions when it comes using budget smartly but what use are those intentions if you still vote for 0 Roi projects despite knowing.
In ways it is worse.
for me the hole governence system have to be discussed. when i see what is funded and how the follow up works then is there something really wrong.
 

DeepBlue

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Feb 2, 2018
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Hello @Argon31 I have voted against the KuvaCash project on this budget and received a number of attacks on my character from project owners and others. I would appreciate it if you could take a look yourself. https://www.dashcentral.org/p/KuvacashBaseFunding002

I am not going to vote for Ben Swann on the next round. I'm not going to vote for KuvaCash on this round and I've given extensive feedback saying why I will not support that project.

I don't know enough about Feedbands to say anything. The above 16 principals is what I will be using from now on. Can you send me a link to your criteria you posted so that I can review them.
 

Triptolemoose

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Aug 30, 2015
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Hello @Argon31 I have voted against the KuvaCash project on this budget and received a number of attacks on my character from project owners and others. I would appreciate it if you could take a look yourself. https://www.dashcentral.org/p/KuvacashBaseFunding002
Keep digging DeepBlue, I’d like everyone to visit DashCentral to read what you’ve been posting over and over, wasting everyone’s time.

Argon31, please review all Kuvacash project information and watch the April update before making any judgements. Don’t rely on DeepBlue to give you an accurate representation of the project, he has demonstrated his ability to be disingenuous whenever it suits his ego.
 

Argon31

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Ben Swann is out of the funded list. Keep him out, vote for decentralization and returns for the network.
 

solarguy

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Kuvacash has suddenly moved into the unfunded category. I would encourage Masternodes to vote yes and finish the experiment. They just received their money transmitter license and we are poised for success.

To DeepBlue, I reject the idea that people attack you for voting against something. Even if I disagree with you, there is zero justification to make personal attacks. Honest discussion of ideas is the life blood of a functional and successful cryptocurrency community.