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ATTENTION: Pre-proposal- business integration into retail sector

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by slava_m, May 13, 2017.

  1. slava_m

    slava_m Member

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    There have been some comments to our proposal on DashCentral recently, but I wanted to share a specific one with all of you . It made me think for a while. Here it is:

    @leomcardle3 wrote:
    "I agree with node_to_a_Master, if DASH is paying for this integration, there needs to be exclusive rights to the technology for DASH. Funding this and having other currencies included would provide little benefit to the DASH community, but it would help crypto in general. For DASH to take on this risk, there needs to be a ROI the DASH treasury's investment. Can you add to the proposal a commitment for a DASH exclusive period of 2 years where your integration into restaurants and others will only have the DASH support and hopefully DASH labels for the front of their shops."

    If a PayPal had accepted only Japanese yen, when they were launching it, we would end up without that payment system at all.
    See, we need a universal solution for a cryptocurrency payment system just to get more people involved in our ecosystem. That's a crucial step and no one has done anything like this. You can't make people pay in Dollars, if they are using gold. You'll have to educate, you'll have to teach, you'll have to drag them in first.

    Don't be jealous of other crypto. We are all in the same boat:)

    What's more, as @dmitriybtc has said, DASH will benefit from this integration a lot more than any other cryptocurrency:

    - we'll make stickers "Dash is accepted here" in front of the restaurant
    - each table will have Dash-exclusive booklets
    - waiters will have T-shirts with qr-codes for accepting Dash only
    - we'll hold Dash meet-ups in those restaurants and accept Dash only

    Frankly, we didn't come with this idea to Ethereum project or Monero, or any other cryptocurrecy. But we came to DASH community. We are sure that over time DASH is going to be the only "digital cash" of new era, because it's the most capable one for this purpose. We believe in DASH. Or even better "In DASH we trust" :)
    Thank you, @eduffield, @Ryan Taylor and all the core team developers - you've created an amazing cryptocurrency, I'd say a masterpiece.

    SO LET'S MAKE IT REAL. LET'S MAKE IT WORK, AS IT'S DESIGNED TO!

    Thank you, everyone who voted "YES":)
     
    #1 slava_m, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
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  2. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    In the dashcentral thread, @dmitriybtc said there is no way to avoid Bitcoin at the moment. Suppose we grant that it would not be feasible to have dash-only. Would you consider limiting the solution to only Bitcoin and Dash for a period of time? It's not about being jealous of other crypto. I want the cryptocurrency industry to succeed. But it is also a competitive industry. Dash's governance is one of the things that makes it stand out head and shoulders above the rest, and if we allow other altcoins to easily, directly reap the benefits of all our investments then it is no longer a competitive advantage. That is why dash-exclusivity, or Bitcoin/dash exclusivity is a good idea. If it is implemented with a time limit then Dash can still enjoy a first mover advantage and the industry as a whole can still benefit in the long run.
     
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  3. slava_m

    slava_m Member

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    I see your point.
    And know what? Having a Bitcoin and DASH payment options must be a good compromise. That's a deal!
    Give me some time so I could change the proposal:)
     
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  4. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    DASH has had multiple opportunities to own exactly this, by several proposers. Most of which already had it in-hand. MNOs rejected it every single time, by a huge margin.

    I am already aware of several developments being done privately, by parties which have no need to obey DASH.

    You're closing the barn door after the horse has already bolted. Like, a year ago... The horse bolted so long ago that the horse has already died of old age somewhere out in the wilderness, and you're jsut now deciding to close the gate and act like it's importnat to...

    Oh nevermind.

    This is beyond silly.

    Even if it was developed with exclusive control in the hands of MNOs, it's way past too late. Other things already exist in the wild which provide this function.

    There is simply no further reason for DASH to entertain retail integration proposals. The concept has already garnered enough attention that useful players are already developing it with their own money, time, and resources.

    Proposals on this topic post @kodaxx are just scamming the suckernodes for free money. This is already happening in several fronts without any funding from DASH because the idea itself has sufficient value to prod big players into action.

    All that remains at this point is to FIX IX so that these players can go live and actually start offering. All the work is done, the developments complete. It's ready to go. All you have to do is FIX IX instead of letting it CONTINUE to rot on the vine. STILL. SOME MORE. Holy fuck...
     
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  5. slava_m

    slava_m Member

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    Give us more details on that, please. Are there any other projects like our's? Than give us some names, concepts or at least some info about those. Otherwise it sounds as if there is no "horse" but you're trying to convince in the opposite!
     
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  6. slava_m

    slava_m Member

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    @camosoul See you have good reputation over here, dude;)

    Don't get me wrong. I can almost feel that you want to fight someone about something. And I would be glad to help you out and to do so. But for now we have some more important things to do :)
     
  7. kodaxx

    kodaxx Member

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    I pretty much agree with camosoul, just based on the fact that my proposal has already been funded (for much less than this) and does exactly what you plan to do.

    That being said, I'm all for competition and other solutions. Of course, I am partial to how we've solved this problem.

    Though, it would be hard for me to justify funding another one of these projects if I were a MNO simply because it already exists.

    And I hear your "we did not go to ethereum with this, or to monero" thing, but that makes sense because dash is the only coin that will pay you for it, right?

    Again, I welcome all competing proposals but as far as adding value, I'm not sure if that's the case. It's something that MNO's should think about.
     
    #7 kodaxx, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  8. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    Putting me on ignore is proof that you prefer delusion over reality. Facts and reality aren't welcome in the DASH echo chamber...

    And, no, I won't sugar coat it, cuz if I did, your fat ass would eat that, too!
     
  9. The philosofers coin

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    Transactions need to be instant, without the use of instant sent, this will be massively misused via double spends. If I would be poor and living in Ukraine, and no way of paying for stuff, this would my golden ticket to get everything I want.

    Having that said anything else than dash, and certainly bitcoin is a no go option for you as business, as these double spend will eat up all your profits in no time
     
  10. kodaxx

    kodaxx Member

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  11. The philosofers coin

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    Thx Kodaxxx,

    Most preferably I would like to see integrations with currently used POS devices, that do not charge for the use of does POS devices.

    But this is obviously great as well. Maybe we could start an out reach program, giving out like 1000 devices for free.
     
  12. kodaxx

    kodaxx Member

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    I know I'm totally thread-jacking, and I apologize for that but this info is relevant..

    The system that I linked to above is usable with currently used POS devices. For an example of this, please read this post:

    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashpay-point-of-sale-project-updates.13108/#post-124616

    There are examples of how to use it with Square, Shopify, ShopKeep, Clover...and these were the examples I pulled together in about 5 minutes for examples sake. The way in which we work with other systems is a common industry practice for external payment methods.

    As far as giving away 1000 devices, that would be great! We have made efforts to make this system available as an 'app' on as many systems as possible (Mac, Linux, Windows, Android, iOS) so that merchants can use hardware that they already own - but we also will have the official hardware available.

    You see what I mean? If the proposal owner could make it clear where he/she is adding value to the network, ie producing something that the network does not already have, then I'm sure camosoul would not be so harsh...
     
  13. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Member

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    Do you think it is really possible to make a double spend by an ordinary person? I doubt so.

    Even for those who do know how to do a double spend, it requires Bitcoin Core desktop wallet which sounds hilarious.
    How many people will download the entire Bitcoin or Dash blockchain to pay for a dinner in a restaurant?
    I won't and neither thousands of people, it's just not practical.

    I don't know any mobile wallet that can do a double spend, even on Android.

    In any case, this is a risk and we do know it. But the chance of having some person cheat is so small that it doesn't stop us to make people use crypto.
     
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  14. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Member

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    Square, Shopify, ShopKeep, Clover - those are really awesome platforms but they work in US, maybe in specific countries of EU.

    Ukraine is a very unique country, and not in a good way. Our local currency hryvnia is not supported on any international website or network whatsoever.
    You may or may not know but we still can't accept payments in Paypal. How many years does Paypal exist on the market? 15?

    Bitpay, Coinbase, Blockpay, Bitgo, dashpayPOS by kodaxx or any other similar service won't use hryvnia as a settlement option at least 3-5 years. I'm 100% sure.
    Those systems work and work awesome but not in Ukraine and in lots of different countries as well.

    The main point is that to allow accepting Bitcoin or Dash is not the hardest part. There are a plenty of solutions for that, like mobile wallets even.
    The hardest part is to give the owner of restaurant real money into their bank account, and make accounting clear and transparent.
    With the current systems it's impossible and won't be possible for a very long time in Ukraine specifically.

    That's why we have to integrate into existing POS systems and platforms that businesses are working on in our country and create a custom solution for bank clearing.
     
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  15. kodaxx

    kodaxx Member

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    Our system is open source so... If it does what you want, but not in your currency, why not add it? If you have a fiat settlement partnership for your currency, make a fork of our project and save the network some time and money.

    All I'm saying is that your proposal does not seem well thought out, and if it is indeed well thought out, you haven't explained your position clearly enough to justify the funds you are asking for, in my mind.
     
  16. Enkhil

    Enkhil New Member

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    I don't know, $10k to intergrate with 80% of current POS systems in a country does not seems such a huge amount in my mind, especially if the will make adoption far quicker than it would otherwise be.

    $10K for enticing merchant to actually use the option. I am curious on how long and does OP intend to campaign and visit businesses for that? Do you have any rough figure of how many restaurants and other businesses you will be able to visit? Can you give any more details on the type of training you intend to do? How you intending to educate them on the advantages of DASH over Bitcoin?

    I do know the situation in the Ukraine is pretty bad and inflation is very high. If current POS systems are used and DASH keeps rising against the local currency, which it will, it seems to me this could very well kickstart adoption very quickly, much quicker than a walking in with a different POS from what they are currently using and trying to convince them with promises instead of enticements.

    I am just a bleeding heart though and an engineer, not a business man, so these are just my 2 duffs.
     
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  17. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Member

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    We don't know specific numbers of restaurants yet because it's impossible to count at the moment.
    Our main goal currently is to make this whole process work legally, which is very important. That's why we're starting with a few restaurants as a pilot project.
    After we've proven that this model works, we're going to expand to different restaurant networks and eventually embrace the majority of retail sector in Ukraine.

    The beauty of integration into existing POS systems (in our case Profit Solutions) is that restaurants that already work with this software can just make a single update and then use crypto as a payment option on their terminals.

    1) Each table in the restaurant will have booklets that will explain the benefits of Dash over Bitcoin
    2) We're going to hold Dash meetups in those places and people will pay in Dash for their meal
    3) By using common sense, I doubt that a lot of people are willing to pay $2-$5 in commissions for a single transaction with Bitcion, so their obvious choice is going to be Dash, it's cheaper. Plus if they want to be 100% sure that their transaction is confirmed, they can use android Dash wallet (on Android) that implements InstantSend.
     
  18. halso

    halso Active Member

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    Hi, thanks for taking the time on the proposal.

    To maximise the chances of your business succeeding, your product should be blockchain agnostic. i.e. you should accept all crypto otherwise you will have competitors who come along that do.

    Ultimately you too will start to accept all crypto if you want to survive.

    For that reason, i don't see the DASH network getting much from this proposal.

    I will be voting No.

    But good luck with the venture, i hope it is a success.
     
  19. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    Wait, am I missing something, is this really the same functionality as kodaxx's POS app? Kodaxx's project is focused on developing a point of sale app that can be used to accept dash, and this proposal is focused on integrating with a settlement partner to enable point of sale dash to fiat conversion. I mean they are in the same category but I don't see this as duplicative?
     
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  20. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    Agreed -- if they wanted to put a time limit on the dash/Bitcoin exclusivity that would be fine by me. Dash could still gain by being the first and with the special promotion and everything, without needing to put a ball and chain on the business forever.
     
  21. kodaxx

    kodaxx Member

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    One of our ultimate goals is to allow instant fiat conversion for merchants, so it's a bit duplicative - in any case, the point of my posting has gotten off topic. It was moreso to let him know that he needed to clarify to mno what he is doing differently if he wants to succeed.

    I'm proposing hypothetical questions that I feel like he should be able to answer effectively.

    Edit: side note, I don't think many really understand my proposal and what it is we're actually building. At least, it doesn't seem that way. So I'm hoping he can do a better job than I did in explaining his position.
     
    #21 kodaxx, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  22. slava_m

    slava_m Member

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    But as far as I understand, your app helps merchants to accept DASH, not to convert it.
    Our solution has to deal with the law and it actually succeeds - merchants can participate in cryptocurrency trend without dealing with it's dark side - regulations!
    We are, as @TroyDASH said, in the same category. However, we are solving problems in different ways:)
     
  23. kodaxx

    kodaxx Member

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    Again, this is exactly what we do and is a stated goal of ours. Allowing merchants to accept AND CONVERT Dash is the purpose of our project.

    Again, the point of my post was to help you understand that you need to explain what your doing differently, not just say you're doing something differently. I'm only trying to help.
     
  24. IronVape

    IronVape Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    Hello?
    This is the same guy that we are currently paying to travel the country on vacation for $2,000/month!
    I guess he needs a little extra spending money.
    WTF is up with us?
    We are being scammed and we don't even care!
     
  25. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Member

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    I suppose you haven't read our update (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...urrency-conferences-throughout-ukraine.13544/).

    If you did, you could find that together with slava_m and our team we've switched from weekly meetups to monthly conferences. The reason for that is because originally I thought I will be doing meetups by myself, and it was okay at first but then I was offered to work on bigger blockchain-related projects so the frequency have changed.

    This month we're going to make another meetup, we're developing new website to show all of the previous meetups and the future once.

    Besides, I'm not using Dash that I received to launch new proposals. We've spent company's money to post this proposal.

    And I haven't traveled all of this time (as you stated) because I didn't have time for that.
     
  26. AnythingDigital

    AnythingDigital New Member

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    Offline business keeps it slow when it comes to digital currencies. Some e-stores can accept bitcoin and dash but even then they have to deal with their distributors and theymost definitely wont accept crypto. Soo, they would need to sell crypto and get real money (remember about transaction fees and similar)

    When it comes to offline business, that`s even harder to maintain
     
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  27. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Member

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    Our model works in a way so that business can accept crypto but it doesn't see it. So basically our processing center (fork.sale) will receive Bitcoin or Dash and then send the fiat currency into bank account of that particular business. In this way they have an option of paying in crypto but at the end of the day they have real money in their bank account.
     

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