Anypay Budget : Politics and Conflict of Interest

Is this a case of clear conflict of interest

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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Anypay has a proposal for 219 dash for 12 months or 2628 dash.
While the proposal is not bad, the duration is ludicrous.

Anypay has agreed to a fixed payout of $65,000 per month or $0.75 Million from the escrow.

If dash price averages $1000 for the year and it passes, the proposal payout will be worth $2.62 Million.

So where will the difference of these amounts go ($ 2 million) ?
Who is pushing the hardest for this proposal to pass?
Who has the maximum conflict of interest here? (its not anypay)

Hint: Check the escrowing party ;0

Read the comments on the proposal and you will have your answer.
 

Dash-Al

New Member
Apr 16, 2018
18
9
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31
Anypay has a proposal for 219 dash for 12 months or 2628 dash.
While the proposal is not bad, the duration is ludicrous.

Anypay has agreed to a fixed payout of $65,000 per month or $0.75 Million from the escrow.

If dash price averages $1000 for the year and it passes, the proposal payout will be worth $2.62 Million.

So where will the difference of these amounts go ($ 2 million) ?
Who is pushing the hardest for this proposal to pass?
Who has the maximum conflict of interest here? (its not anypay)

Hint: Check the escrowing party ;0

Read the comments on the proposal and you will have your answer.
Another option is to use the escrow provider I've introduced to the Dash ecosystem: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/good-attorneys-at-law-escrow-service.36810/

They would be neutral party and have a fiduciary duty to the interest of the proposal owner and/or the DAO (if it becomes a legal entity). As discussed in another forum post, if there is a legal entity that can represent the DAO, then a contract could be written for extra funds to go to the DAO.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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So where will the difference of these amounts go ($ 2 million) ?
@Argon31 you can at least acknowledge that the question has already been answered. If you don't like the answer, then why don't you actually respond to it. But don't just randomly ask "so where will the money go??" :confused::confused::confused:

 
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Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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@TroyDASH

Why cant they post a proposal for 3 months with so much volatility? Price has nearly doubled since they posted.
Where are the milestones befitting a 12 month proposal?
(Don't say they are working on it because 500+ votes are already in)

Who is dash force news to collect escrow funds and why arent they neutral in this?
(They have agreed to escrow a 2600 dash proposal without any milestones. :confused::confused::confused:. Tells a story)

This is no way to do this, when millions are at stake.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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@TroyDASH

Why cant they post a proposal for 3 months with so much volatility? Price has nearly doubled since they posted.
Where are the milestones befitting a 12 month proposal?
(Don't say they are working on it because 500+ votes are already in)

Who is dash force news to collect escrow funds and why arent they neutral in this?
(They have agreed to escrow a 2600 dash proposal without any milestones. :confused::confused::confused:. Tells a story)

This is no way to do this, when millions are at stake.
You didn't respond to what I actually said.

Dash Force is escrowing the funds, not Dash Force News. Maybe they are doing it because it was a member of Dash Force who made the business connection in the first place and helped them with their proposal. Dash Force has already made known that they are willing to be an escrow provider as well so why would this be unexpected?

You aren't the only one who is objecting to the 12 month duration. But you are the only one who thought that you needed to create a topic just to complain about it, again. Do you really have to create a topic every time you have a complaint? Use the pre-proposal/proposal threads, that is what they are there for...
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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So the problem here is not that there is an open conflict of interest.
It is not that there is an escrow in place for a 12 month proposal without any milestones yet, 500 votes in.
It is not that there is going to be a situation where a self proclaimed escrow has millions of dollars in extra funds.

But creating a thread to make everyone aware of this is.

The entire dash force team is backing this project so they can escrow the money creating a conflict of interest.
They should have been neutral and abstained from voting or core should do this.

If you think all of this is okay then thats that.
 

Nuancer

Member
Jun 26, 2017
42
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58
@Argon31 I don't see a need for escrow providers to abstain from voting or supporting a proposal. One of the benefits of being an escrow provider is that you can add legitimacy to proposals you like, by attaching your escrow services to the proposal. And yes, we can still have neutral escrow providers that compete to provide the service as well.

That being said, you are right to bring up some critical points about the Anypay proposal, though it probably doesn't need its own thread.

Here is my current list of concerns on the Anypay proposal:
1) 12 month proposal is too long
2) Escrow provider Dash Force has not committed to a plan for excess funds within the proposal - this seems like a key requirement that should be stated in the body of a 12-month proposal
3) No defined milestones required for funding in proposal (should include things like open-source release, Android/iOS app, InstantSend integration, # of merchants onboarded)
4) No Dash exclusivity
5) Free iPads for merchants to accept Bitcoin and other cryptos
6) No prior proposal history
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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The entire dash force team is backing this project so they can escrow the money creating a conflict of interest.
They should have been neutral and abstained from voting or core should do this.
Just how many votes do you think Dash Force has?

All masternodes are allowed to vote on proposals. Do you think it is a conflict of interest for core team members who are MNOs to vote for their own core team budgets? Should core team members not be allowed to vote on proposals escrowed through dash core? Should Jeff Smith not have voted for any of the many projects that were escrowed through greencandle?
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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Dash force have about 50 of their own and another 100 they can influence, including yours it seems.
When only 1000 are voting this is a big number.

Jeff Smith dumped community funds into a node and used it to vote and was going to keep the rewards, if people didnt raise a stink.
He went months without giving any accounts and screwed over some of the project he was "looking after". That and all the MMA stuff.
This is the reason why he will have a hard time getting anything passed again.

Dash core is obligated to give the community accounting statements and have proper agreements in place before handing over money.

They are not like the amateurs/lobbyists at dash force, who "escrow" a 12 month proposal without any milestones.
The price of Dash is set at $300, so they get the left over money. It is already at 500.

I am surprised that you dont find this crazy but then I am not surprised at the same time.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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Dash force have about 50 of their own and another 100 they can influence, including yours it seems.
When only 1000 are voting this is a big number.

Jeff Smith dumped community funds into a node and used it to vote and was going to keep the rewards, if people didnt raise a stink.
He went months without giving any accounts and screwed over some of the project he was "looking after". That and all the MMA stuff.
This is the reason why he will have a hard time getting anything passed again.

Dash core is obligated to give the community accounting statements and have proper agreements in place before handing over money.

They are not like the amateurs/lobbyists at dash force, who "escrow" a 12 month proposal without any milestones.
The price of Dash is set at $300, so they get the left over money. It is already at 500.

I am surprised that you dont find this crazy but then I am not surprised at the same time.
I'm not sure where you are getting that number from but 50 votes is only 1%. It doesn't matter how many are voting, you need 475 yes votes to pass, and that's if it's unanimous. The whole point of debating proposals is to influence as many votes as you can. What is the problem with trying to influence votes? Are you just pulling it out of your ass that there are 100 votes who are mindless and will just do whatever Joel or Mastermined says?

Are you sure you know how Dash Core handles escrow?

What is Core's policy of acting as escrow for proposals? In cases where this is the best avenue, who would the point of contact be for Core-stewarded escrow?

We provide escrow service to any proposal owner that requests it. We only filter for obvious problems like gross incompetence or obvious harm to the network. The filter is intentionally loose because we don’t want to be arbiters; we are only providing escrow as a service to the network to correct for lack of accountability once the proposal has been paid. The ones that should be deciding are the Masternode owners when voting. For that reason, we make it very clear that escrow doesn’t imply endorsement.

.....

Does Dash Core Group’s escrow service, lead to centralization?

No, there is no such threat as Dash Core Group is only one of the actors that do escrow in the ecosystem, and it is not compulsory. Therefore everyone is free to do proposals without escrow, or with someone else’s escrow. It is also worth mentioning that Dash Core Group provides the escrow service free of charge, providing our internal resources to maintain the process. In the long run, we would probably prefer to let professional escrow companies to step in and provide this service to the network, so Dash Core Group may stay focused on product development and support.
 

Arthyron

Active Member
May 29, 2017
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How many nodes do *you* have, @Argon31? How many Dash do you have? What other usernames have you operated under before or currently? How many sockpuppets do you have? Why are you scrutinizing other community members when you literally made a thread last week telling people seeking funding to look to other projects because you didn't like how votes turned out? You want to start talking "conflict of interest," let's start there, let's start with you.
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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Are you okay with a 2600 dash escrow without a contract and milestones?
How do you know when to release / stop payments ?

Dashforce has no expertise in finance and they have proved it by escrowing something without milestones or contract.
5 year old kids do better.

Dash force should not be escrowing anything at all and stick to whatever they call journalism.
If core cant escrow, core should contract someone neutral like who @paragon suggested.

When only 1000 vote, 50 is a big. There is nothing wrong in creating support but there is a serious conflict of interest here. Dash force is doing it to get access to escrow funds worth significant amounts that has no defined future. This is how corruption starts.

When there are influential people calling for favours for something, it is easy to fall prey.
They have been going after kuvacash but thats for another day.



I'm not sure where you are getting that number from but 50 votes is only 1%. It doesn't matter how many are voting, you need 475 yes votes to pass, and that's if it's unanimous. The whole point of debating proposals is to influence as many votes as you can. What is the problem with trying to influence votes? Are you just pulling it out of your ass that there are 100 votes who are mindless and will just do whatever Joel or Mastermined says?

Are you sure you know how Dash Core handles escrow?
 

feedbands

Active Member
Dec 2, 2017
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Just want to jump in here and say that Anypay can solve a lot of problems.

We had an industry veteran restaurant sales guy contact us through Dash informer who works on commission basis. His whole professional life he has sold things to restaurants. He wants to sell Dash payments to restaurants but there was no way to move forward with him because:

A. What would he specifically be selling to the restaurants?
B. What would the incentives be?
C. What POS would he be advocating?

With Anypay, all of those questions are answered and this gentleman could begin his work. And if the price of Dash appreciates, it could potentially fund his work as well. I trust Dash Force to act in the best interest of Dash at all times and I have zero doubt that they would appropriately manage the funds.

I was finally able to connect Lou (the restaurant salesperson) with Joel (DesertLynx) to make the connection with the AnyPay team and I suspect, if the Anypay proposal does pass, we will have a powerful salesperson with the connections and experience to move it forward even faster than anticipated.
 

BoomStick

New Member
Feb 1, 2017
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Good job @feedbands , I hope it'll work out with that salesperson, DASH needs to fight on all fronts for mass adoption.

Btw have you considered Paytomat ? - that DASH POS used in many restaurants on Ukraine (just a thought, I dont know what potential does it have)
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
1,253
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Are you okay with a 2600 dash escrow without a contract and milestones?
How do you know when to release / stop payments ?

Dashforce has no expertise in finance and they have proved it by escrowing something without milestones or contract.
5 year old kids do better.

Dash force should not be escrowing anything at all and stick to whatever they call journalism.
If core cant escrow, core should contract someone neutral like who @paragon suggested.

When only 1000 vote, 50 is a big. There is nothing wrong in creating support but there is a serious conflict of interest here. Dash force is doing it to get access to escrow funds worth significant amounts that has no defined future. This is how corruption starts.

When there are influential people calling for favours for something, it is easy to fall prey.
They have been going after kuvacash but thats for another day.
I agree that there should be a contract, but at the same time it seems hypocritical to demand this contract information from dashforce and not from the core team when they do escrow. How often do you know what are the conditions for release of funds when the core team escrows? Have you seen the core team contract with getfreedash?

Two wrongs (or oversights) don't make a right, but I'm just saying.

Anyone who wants to can lobby for votes. This is simply how governance works whether we're talking about dash or any other organization that has voting members. It is not a problem.

50 votes (which you still have no proof of), gets a proposal 1/10 of the way to being funded assuming a unanimous vote. You still need to get the remaining 9/10 from somewhere else plus more votes to offset the NOs. This is not even close to a controlling number of votes no matter how you slice it.
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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I support the anypay project but not how the twelve month duration and scandalous escrow without milestones.
Anypay is a use case. Dash core would include milestones. If they dont, then I dont know what to say.

People are supporting political causes like ben swann.
When the day of reckoning comes and the market burns, coins that have no uses will go to zero.
Money is being wasted on senseless advertising, anything with venezuela and dumb sponsorships.

The few use case proposals like kuva cash( minus the scammy vco part), point of sale, freelancing, merchant adoption are getting crushed or there is no budget because it has been eaten by feedbands, strike social or swann. The best projects are non-politcal and evoke no emotion which is why they find no takers.
Lobbying is appealing to emotion and not use for the network which is the problem with it.
Venezuelans are making money hand over fist by pumping their budgets. Franelas takes a cut from every venezuela proposal.

My opposition is to lobbying and the ASS proposals (Advertising, Social Media, Sponsorship) because they are a total waste.
Like swann, strike social, feedbands
 

solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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Ok Mr. Argon31,

So....still no proof that Dash Force News wields 50 Masternodes/votes, and/or that they control or influence 100 more. The lack of evidence suggests to me that you are inventing that number out of thin air. Although I am still very interested in proof.

And, once again for the 4th or 5th time, you decline to answer the question if you have ever participated in this forum under another name.
Or how many Masternodes you run.

Assertions without evidence can be dismissed with the slightest wave of the hand.

Good day sir,
 
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Arthyron

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May 29, 2017
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@Argon31 Still no answers, why should anyone take the word of a troll and shill for other coins seriously? How can anyone respond to you in good faith with your own obvious conflicts of interest? We're all waiting...and probably will be perpetually...
 

Argon31

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Mar 10, 2018
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@Arthyron @solarguy

Both of you are pretty ......... , voting in all the garbage and now presiding over the slaughter of 20 proposals.

I think proposal teams should stop wasting their time with like you, who vote for dumb stuff and then bemoan the treasury situation.

You should be happy with blowing money on Benswann and Feedbands, while all the devs find work with Smartcash, Pivx, Tron & Monero.

Do you really think there is proof for guesstimates? Grow up.

Argon
 

Arthyron

Active Member
May 29, 2017
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Still no answer. Still shilling for other projects. Still making all kinds of assertions and aspersions as to the voting patterns of others. Meanwhile, people like myself are actively working *with* these proposal owners you say we're slaughtering in order to try to push their projects through. No clue, no real concept of what's going on here, just concern-trolling.

The guy who throws a tantrum every time a vote doesn't go his way and makes 15 new threads to complain tells other people to grow up. Riiiiight...
 
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solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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@Arthyron @solarguy

Both of you are pretty ......... , voting in all the garbage and now presiding over the slaughter of 20 proposals.

I think proposal teams should stop wasting their time with like you, who vote for dumb stuff and then bemoan the treasury situation.

You should be happy with blowing money on Benswann and Feedbands, while all the devs find work with Smartcash, Pivx, Tron & Monero.

Do you really think there is proof for guesstimates? Grow up.

Argon
1. I am impressed that you think so highly of me (and Arthyron) that the two of us have this amazing power to cause the Masternode community to do x action.
2. I don't have that power, and I defer to the wisdom of the Masternode community.
3. Did you miss the part where Ben Swann's team is having face to face talks for syndication with Fox news and other Very Large media outlets?
4. You still fail to recognize the primary driver of our problem, the price of Dash went down a lot. It wouldn't matter who the big project was, or if there were no big projects. If we have 4 million dollars worth of props, and only 3 million dollars, there's a million dollars worth of props that can't get funded. Unlike our fearless government leaders, we can't just invent large amounts of money at a whim.

Whatever dude....
 
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Argon31

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Mar 10, 2018
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Ben Swann should not get a cent from the treasury to build a physical studio.
It is crazy to waste money like that when there are 20 others asking for far stronger projects.

When funds are low, it is time to get smarter with fund and not sponsor every dumb idea in town.
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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What is the point of working with proposals when you gift away all the money to Swann and Feedbands?

You are wasting your own time in that case. Devs will go to other coins if they dont find work here.

They dont need advice from you or me to make that switch.

Still no answer. Still shilling for other projects. Still making all kinds of assertions and aspersions as to the voting patterns of others. Meanwhile, people like myself are actively working *with* these proposal owners you say we're slaughtering in order to try to push their projects through. No clue, no real concept of what's going on here, just concern-trolling.

The guy who throws a tantrum every time a vote doesn't go his way and makes 15 new threads to complain tells other people to grow up. Riiiiight...
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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What is the point of working with proposals when you gift away all the money to Swann and Feedbands?

You are wasting your own time in that case. Devs will go to other coins if they dont find work here.

They dont need advice from you or me to make that switch.
Our developers have never lacked for resources. Our devs get market rates and we are striving to get them very good benefits packages on top of good wages. Many other projects ask the devs to just volunteer their time, or work for reduced rates, with no benefits. Your argument is specious.
 
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Arthyron

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May 29, 2017
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What is the point of working with proposals when you gift away all the money to Swann and Feedbands?

You are wasting your own time in that case. Devs will go to other coins if they dont find work here.

They dont need advice from you or me to make that switch.
Again, you're arguing from ignorance saying that I'm voting for or against proposals when you have no idea if I even vote at all. Statistically most MNOs don't even do that. Whine more.