A Potential Goldmine: Making The #FirstDashWallet Campaign Permanent

TaoOfSatoshi

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My fellow Dash Nation members,

I don't know about you, but I have been inspired by the success of @amanda_b_johnson's #FirstDashWallet campaign, and the areas of the world it has brought people into Dash from.

This campaign has the potential to be the hugest thing to happen in earth's history, let alone Dash. People in countries with failing currencies will start it out of desperation, but eventually that network effect will bring it worldwide. This could seriously be the "killer app" that we need to bring the world into digital cash.

As such, I propose that we spend every last remaining budget dollar on this campaign, what is left over after all of the other approved proposals. The importance of what Amanda has started here cannot be overstated. Carrying on with this path could see huge swaths of people carrying Dash, and be the kickstarter to merchant adoption that we need.

In my opinion, that would create far more value than simply not creating the Dash.

As the Dash Nation founder, this campaign makes me absolutely giddy with excitement. Let's continue to get Dash out there into the hands of people who will help us create a worldwide economy with digital cash!

Who agrees with me?
 
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RGXDK

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As such, I propose that we spend every last remaining budget dollar on this campaign, what is left over after all of the other approved proposals.
Are you kidding me? I can think of a zillion other proposals that are way better than paying users to install our product. How are you measuring ROI? We are not Paypal, we are not Uber. This campaign is paying $20 to people in third world countries to install a Dash wallet with a zero balance, while people in first world countries with plenty of Dash don't have anywhere to spend it.

How about we put all the money and funds into actual, relevant, major projects:
  • Coinbase
  • BitPay
  • GoCoin
  • Merchant Adoption
  • Exchanges all over the globe (Hong Kong, Spain, Mexico, Brazil, New Zealand, Australia) where people can buy Dash with Fiat
Imagine if this campaign is a huge success and 1 million people sign up... are we going to spend $20 million? We don't don't have any data to back it up. We should grow organically, not by paying people to install our product.

While we are on the topic of what to focus on, how about we talk about the proposals that passed that we know nothing about? What exactly did core do last month? What are they going to do this month? What about the other proposals, what's the status?

There are many other things we should be doing and giving away $ is a very poor use of our limited resources.
 
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TaoOfSatoshi

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TaoOfSatoshi

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I can see issues, however, like varying amounts of money per month, but that's why I started this thread. To try and see who is seeing the value in this, and how can we continue it in a more enduring way. It really could be massive.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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Are you kidding me? I can think of a zillion other proposals that are way better than paying users to install our product.
And if those proposals that you can think of pass, then there won't be any need to use the remaining funds, will there? If they don't, IMO this is a better option than not creating the Dash at all.

How about we put all the money and funds into actual, relevant, major projects:
  • Coinbase
  • BitPay
  • GoCoin
  • Merchant Adoption
  • Exchanges all over the globe (Hong Kong, Spain, Mexico, Brazil, New Zealand, Australia) where people can buy Dash with Fiat
Agreed, these are excellent projects. Let's get them passed. But if we don't, let's put the remainder to work for us!

We should grow organically, not by paying people to install our product.
Organic growth can use a boost every now and then...

There are many other things we should be doing and giving away $ is a very poor use of our limited resources.
Perhaps, but having Dash in the hands of people who would spend it would help all of the other projects that you mentioned. Creating a worldwide Dash economy should be our goal, and using leftover budget funds in this way has been proven to work before, despite the fact that we are not Paypal.

While we are on the topic of what to focus on, how about we talk about the proposals that passed that we know nothing about? What exactly did core do last month? What are they going to do this month? What about the other proposals, what's the status?
Off topic for this discussion.
 

Jmmon

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If this reaches poorer countries, giving those people $10 worth of Dash could help allow more trade to occur in those places and could boost our transaction volume, allowing us to test out our network capacity.

Or people might just forget about the Dash it and hold it, and hopefully not lose it. Later down the road the price should have appreciated so people would be excited if/when they find it again; and worst case is the funds are lost in the nether after introducing a new person to Dash, rather than the funds never being created in the first place.

This is one way to solve the chicken and egg problem - give users Dash so businesses are more likely to start accepting it.

I think it's a great idea to use excess funds for more of this program (or for similar outreach programs).
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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If this reaches poorer countries, giving those people $10 worth of Dash could help allow more trade to occur in those places and could boost our transaction volume, allowing us to test out our network capacity.

Or people might just forget about the Dash it and hold it, and hopefully not lose it. Later down the road the price should have appreciated so people would be excited if/when they find it again; and worst case is the funds are lost in the nether after introducing a new person to Dash, rather than the funds never being created in the first place.

This is one way to solve the chicken and egg problem - give users Dash so businesses are more likely to start accepting it.

I think it's a great idea to use excess funds for more of this program (or for similar outreach programs).
This, exactly.
 
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RGXDK

Guest
If this reaches poorer countries, giving those people $10 worth of Dash could help allow more trade to occur in those places and could boost our transaction volume, allowing us to test out our network capacity.
.
If IT professionals can't spend Dash in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia etc, it's delusional to think regular people in Nigeria are going to.
 
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DAOMN

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TaoOfSatoshi

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If IT professionals can't spend Dash in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia etc, it's delusional to think regular people in Nigeria are going to.
That's totally not the point. The point is to get Dash out there, so it becomes part of the world's collective consciousness. These kinds of campaigns tend to get people passionate about the subject, and that can only be good for Dash. It will make it easier to do the other things that you want to do, because we will be able to point to the increasing number of people using the Dash network. Think remittances, for example.
 
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TroyDASH

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If IT professionals can't spend Dash in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia etc, it's delusional to think regular people in Nigeria are going to.
That's totally not the point. The point is to get Dash out there, so it becomes part of the world's collective consciousness. These kinds of campaigns tend to get people passionate about the subject, and that can only be good for Dash. It will make it easier to do the other things that you want to do, because we will be able to point to the increasing number of people using the Dash network. Think remittances, for example.
From my perspective one of the benefits of this is that it draws more talent into the Dash ecosystem. Some of the people we reach are going to have networking connections, or are going to be interested and find a way to help. As a project with such small market penetration right now, giving people an incentive to come check out our product isn't a terrible idea.
 
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RGXDK

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That's totally not the point. The point is to get Dash out there, so it becomes part of the world's collective consciousness. These kinds of campaigns tend to get people passionate about the subject, and that can only be good for Dash. It will make it easier to do the other things that you want to do, because we will be able to point to the increasing number of people using the Dash network. Think remittances, for example.
What is the point exactly of getting "Dash out there"? What does it even mean? How does it correlate to Dash becoming "part of the world's collective consciousness"? Also what exactly do you mean by that?

You're making unsubstantiated claims, using vague terms, all while proposing to spend limited resources. You can't put things in the same sentence and expect them to show any correlation or causation without you providing evidence. What is the evidence for these claims?
 
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RGXDK

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From my perspective one of the benefits of this is that it draws more talent into the Dash ecosystem. Some of the people we reach are going to have networking connections, or are going to be interested and find a way to help. As a project with such small market penetration right now, giving people an incentive to come check out our product isn't a terrible idea.
At what cost though? Do you want to bring 100,000 newbies at a cost of $2 million on the off chance that it might do some good to the ecosystem? Have you considered the possibility that his campaign could do more harm than good? All this while we have other issues listed here that are much more important.
 

DAOMN

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If IT professionals can't spend Dash in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia etc, it's delusional to think regular people in Nigeria are going to.
Could a group of 10 cash-strapped people get $200 worth of DASH total through the campaign, send it all to one wallet, and use it to buy a discounted Amazon gift card through Bitcart? I was raised in poverty and it forces you to be resourceful. We may be quite surprised at the results from this campaign.
 
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RGXDK

Guest
Could a group of 10 cash-strapped people get $200 worth of DASH total through the campaign, send it all to one wallet, and use it to buy a discounted Amazon gift card through Bitcart? I was raised in poverty and it forces you to be resourceful. We may be quite surprised at the results from this campaign.
If you want to raise people out of poverty with your own funds please be my guest, but don't use the network's money (other people's money) for that.
 

Semarg

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Tao has the point. #FirstDashWallet is a brilliant idea and can make a great market change. Although, projects like Coinbase and so on will do significant impacts also. I believe making some fixed monthly budget to spend on #FirstDashWallet is a good idea. As well as to make big (huge? enormous?) 1 time payment to get into the Coinbase.
 
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Acedian

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The #FirstDashWallet campaign is less than pointless at this stage in Dash.
I would rather we gave the remaining budget to a charity. This would give positive exposure and help people in need.
 
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RGXDK

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The #FirstDashWallet campaign is less than pointless at this stage in Dash.
I would rather we gave the remaining budget to a charity. This would give positive exposure and help people in need.
Agreed but no charity with other people's money
 

Friend

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I would like to share my thoughts. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This campaign has the potential to be the hugest thing to happen in earth's history
I agree, with assumptions that:
1. Only legitimate new users get their dash.
2. They don't "shapeshift" it to something else, because dash is not accepted in their area.
(I imagine that 30$ in Uber, can be spend only for Uber services, right?)

Campaigns like that are generally good idea, but in our case it should be strictly time limited ,or periodical only.

IMO, it is only a matter of time, for hired people from China or India, to drain, even our full budget, in few hours. (Have you heard of "farms" of people solving massive amounts of captcha for money?)

Please ask @solarguy , he seems to have good critical thinking (I.e. in this thread https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-stock-split.9611/page-3#post-129602)
BUT, what is the criterion for deciding if it worked or not.
It's a nice theory. But without evidence, it's just a theory. If you want to change it, bring me evidence.
In short: This campaign now is better than doing nothing, but without proper security measures it may become worse than doing nothing.
(It's better to not create budget founds, than to waste them.)

Edit: 1. Giftaways like these could be continued, but in a face to face manner, best on dash related events (i.e. symposiums, lectures, promotional/marketing events, sponsored by us sport events?) Doing it online, for a longer time period, is risky. (But maybe I am not aware of precautions taken by organizers.)
2. Isn't promoting a Jaxx wallet risky ass well, at the moment?
https://vxlabs.com/2017/06/10/extracting-the-jaxx-12-word-wallet-backup-phrase/
3. Anyway, don't let these comments bring you down, and keep up a good work, like you used to, Amanda :)
 
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TheSingleton

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I would vote for continuing this campaign. But I agree with other that this alone is not nearly good enough. I would prefer the Dash Core Team would increase their business development team.
 
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IronVape

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It has been a great campaign and I, happy to see it contiue for a while.
But we need to be careful.

Some people are starting to fall down the vey slippery slope called "Fiat is Free".

I'd much rather see Dash burned than poorly spent.
 

dashdisciple

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Is the #FirstDashWallet an unbelievable success? Yes, absolutely. It's incredible. People from all over crypto are taking notice. Any day now, it has the potential to hop into the mainstream media sphere.


Should it continue into the future, using surplus funds that aren't already being absorbed for more targetted use? Yes, if the campaign evolved. (continent by continent rule variants, different tasks, etc.)


For the last week, my team and I have been working with Pete and Amanda in the goal of minimizing their manual labor inputs required. We've been able to program and deliver them a couple different tools to pull and organize data, and then make batch payments. On top of this, though, a full manual fraud review is still required. My guess is that Amanda and Pete have each been working 18 hour days since the campaign begun, even with these tools.


In terms of feasibility alone, more programs and tools must be developed, and labor aside from Pete's and Amanda's would need to be input for scalability and enhanced fraud review. In an ideal world, Amanda's time could be totally freed up for press interviews discussing the promotion, not implementing it.


We've run blockchain analysis on several large samples of the payment addresses to see what's going on. All of the forementioned activities are occurring: some are leaving it on their wallet, some are adding it to larger wallets, some are sharing it with friends, some are passing it around in all types of ways, some are aggregating and selling it off or trading it. Similar to real money, people are using it for all different types of things.


Aside from simply giving money away, though, what Dash/Amanda are really doing is paying people to do things from across the world. Amanda is paying two people to find a friend, make a sign, download an app, get a payment address, make a post to twitter. For $10 a person, they are completing this task. What else could these people be paid to do? Has there been a time before in history where a person sitting at a computer on one side of the world could hire thousands of other people to do a task and have them paid without banks? I'd love for this discussion to evolve into what else these people could be paid to do in a mutually beneficial way.


Overall, though, having $1,000,000 in unspent budget in a startup like Dash is unacceptable. It's a squandered opportunity.


Many of us keep waiting for Core to take this gigantic budget, invest every dollar (that's not going into R&D) right into productive marketing, such as Google, Bing, Reddit pay-per-click ads. Until the day that Core realizes that this surplus money needs to be reinvested into aggressive outreach and marketing to new investors, I think Tao's vision of surplus reinvestment into an evolving #FirstDashWallet campaign is brilliant, and we support it.
 
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AndyDark

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Is the #FirstDashWallet an unbelievable success? Yes, absolutely. It's incredible. People from all over crypto are taking notice. Any day now, it has the potential to hop into the mainstream media sphere.


Should it continue into the future, using surplus funds that aren't already being absorbed for more targetted use? Yes, if the campaign evolved. (continent by continent rule variants, different tasks, etc.)


For the last week, my team and I have been working with Pete and Amanda in the goal of minimizing their manual labor inputs required. We've been able to program and deliver them a couple different tools to pull and organize data, and then make batch payments. On top of this, though, a full manual fraud review is still required. My guess is that Amanda and Pete have each been working 18 hour days since the campaign begun, even with these tools.


In terms of feasibility alone, more programs and tools must be developed, and labor aside from Pete's and Amanda's would need to be input for scalability and enhanced fraud review. In an ideal world, Amanda's time could be totally freed up for press interviews discussing the promotion, not implementing it.


We've run blockchain analysis on several large samples of the payment addresses to see what's going on. All of the forementioned activities are occurring: some are leaving it on their wallet, some are adding it to larger wallets, some are sharing it with friends, some are passing it around in all types of ways, some are aggregating and selling it off or trading it. Similar to real money, people are using it for all different types of things.


Aside from simply giving money away, though, what Dash/Amanda are really doing is paying people to do things from across the world. Amanda is paying two people to find a friend, make a sign, download an app, get a payment address, make a post to twitter. For $10 a person, they are completing this task. What else could these people be paid to do? Has there been a time before in history where a person sitting at a computer on one side of the world could hire thousands of other people to do a task and have them paid without banks? I'd love for this discussion to evolve into what else these people could be paid to do in a mutually beneficial way.


Overall, though, having $1,000,000 in unspent budget in a startup like Dash is unacceptable. It's a squandered opportunity.


Many of us keep waiting for Core to take this gigantic budget, invest every dollar (that's not going into R&D) right into productive marketing, such as Google, Bing, Reddit pay-per-click ads. Until the day that Core realizes that this surplus money needs to be reinvested into aggressive outreach and marketing to new investors, I think Tao's vision of surplus reinvestment into an evolving #FirstDashWallet campaign is brilliant, and we support it.
"Until the day that Core realizes that this surplus money needs to be reinvested into aggressive outreach and marketing to new investors"

Please see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathan...startup-death-premature-scaling/#317fc6e71fc9

Core's strategy is based on the recognition that Dash (and crypto in general) is not ready for the mass market yet due to lack of access, usibility and complexity. To solve this we are working on Evolution, which you can read about in many places, and progress on that is (we feel) good and on schedule.

Mass/agressive marketting before we have a mainstream product is something certain new people have been pushing agressively, and is something that is potentially very damanging to Dash before it can deliver the kind of value those users are looking for, and people are openly talking about how this can raise the price, i.e. driven by greed, and desire to increase the value of their Dash before we have a mainstream product and to new users who don't necessarily understand what they are taking on and potentially get burned if this kind of agressive marketing causes bubbles / large price rises, which again is damanging to our long term strategy and desire to actually benefit a much larger base of users in the mainstream than crypto is currently capable of doing.

So just saying that Core 'doesn't realize' - actually please consider if you realize what our strategy is or understand basics of marketing, startups and product launch - building a mainstream-ready product correctly, scalably, steadily and not trying to run before we can walk is how we succeed. Trying to just get Dash into the hands of the highest number of users possible right now and raising the price is certainly not why we are here.

If you don't agree with the Core strategy, please use the governance system to effect that or invest in a project that can provide the pump you're looking for with marketing and hype, here we are working on long term value, earned through innovation to solve the current crypto problems and not just push things onto noobs with a product that's not ready.

Thanks

Andy
Dash Core Team CTO
 

Rod Ambrissi

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I think also expanding this campaign in different languages will be a huge success but not with subtitles but someone talking either Spanish for the Latin America markets or Portuguese from Brazil and other Asian languages as well.
 

dashdisciple

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"Until the day that Core realizes that this surplus money needs to be reinvested into aggressive outreach and marketing to new investors"

Please see: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathan...startup-death-premature-scaling/#317fc6e71fc9

Core's strategy is based on the recognition that Dash (and crypto in general) is not ready for the mass market yet due to lack of access, usibility and complexity. To solve this we are working on Evolution, which you can read about in many places, and progress on that is (we feel) good and on schedule.

Mass/agressive marketting before we have a mainstream product is something certain new people have been pushing agressively, and is something that is potentially very damanging to Dash before it can deliver the kind of value those users are looking for, and people are openly talking about how this can raise the price, i.e. driven by greed, and desire to increase the value of their Dash before we have a mainstream product and to new users who don't necessarily understand what they are taking on and potentially get burned if this kind of agressive marketing causes bubbles / large price rises, which again is damanging to our long term strategy and desire to actually benefit a much larger base of users in the mainstream than crypto is currently capable of doing.

So just saying that Core 'doesn't realize' - actually please consider if you realize what our strategy is or understand basics of marketing, startups and product launch - building a mainstream-ready product correctly, scalably, steadily and not trying to run before we can walk is how we succeed. Trying to just get Dash into the hands of the highest number of users possible right now and raising the price is certainly not why we are here.

If you don't agree with the Core strategy, please use the governance system to effect that or invest in a project that can provide the pump you're looking for with marketing and hype, here we are working on long term value, earned through innovation to solve the current crypto problems and not just push things onto noobs with a product that's not ready.

Thanks

Andy
Dash Core Team CTO
Andy, thanks a lot for the thoughtful response.

I read through the article you provided, and it sounds like the main pitfall in early scaling is that startups burn through funds they'll need for later. In the case of Dash, it works in reverse, for the most part. Each month, the funds either get used or burnt, and renewed the next month. What I'm suggesting is that all funds be reinvested towards gaining more investors now, so that when we need a larger marketing budget for Evolution in the future, we've planned ahead. New investment now will be used to market Evolution later.

I agree that getting people in at the user level will not be nearly as valuable as gaining new investors at this moment.

There is some difference of opinion here, but I think ourselves and many MNOs would prefer to continue to support Core completely and entirely instead of creating political parties over this issue. If this issue isn't addressed, it's a guarantee that it will become a governance issue and be brought to more and more contentious votes, but we'd prefer that it never got to that level.

Somebody should be picking up this leftover $1M per month and putting it to efficient use. A pump or hype is not what we are after, but we are interested in making sure that Dash wins its fair share of the new investment money that is flowing into crypto right now. We will need it for Dash's many battles to come.

If Core is not interested in utilizing more than its R&D portion of the budget, I think Dash would benefit by, at least, receiving some guidance as to what other large Dash teams could be doing to put that money to use. We could all benefit from a coordinated strategy which puts Dash's ample treasury to use. Nobody wants to step on Core's toes if there is a better plan for this money.

There is clearly a cap on how much can be thrown at programming, but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to utilize nearly $1M/mo in surplus funds that would otherwise just be burnt each month. If Core has no ideas of how that money can be spent effectively, though, that is a different and bigger problem.

Thanks again for taking this issue seriously and responding. We are very grateful for your work and focus with R&D.
 
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UdjinM6

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I'm very thankful for @amanda_b_johnson to step up with the #firstdashwallet initiative because I can imagine how hard this can be to manually filter all these requests for "free money" and it's very interesting to test the idea even though it might be too early as @AndyDark already mentioned. With that being said I'm pretty sure that an open-ended proposal to continue the campaign forever without any estimates or limits is the wrong way. Imo we shouldn't throw money to the wind even if otherwise they are going to be burnt not going to be created - this encourages ill kind of behavior which can be damaging in the long term. This one https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-should-we-continue-the-maxed-out-campaigns.15311/ was already worrying a bit but at least it provided some kind of info regarding current status and claimed the increased rate of demand (still no limits though...).

I think we should check the results of current campaign first after some time i.e. How many of them really became Dash users in any sense? How many of them just converted Dash to btc/$/whatever and just got their "free money" from us? (How can we verify this btw?) There are many countries in the world where $100 is a huge amount of money, so I imagine it could be a non-neglible %. And then - how many new users we gained through #firstdashwallet are still using Dash after one month? After two months? Basically, the question is - is there any (expected) long term effect at all or is it just some short term PR and newly created money are mostly wasted?