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Dash Core Team Accountability and Lack of Communication

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Stealth923

Stealth923

Well-known member
Foundation Member
This is not to troll but with the hope to build a better framework and community. I believe in Dash and its vision and hold a large number of Masternodes and I am concerned with projects with no communication or updates except for ambiguous comments or excuses:

1) Legal work Part I - 1492 Dash - (Masternode rewards etc for IRS) https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-legal-sept.10457/
2) Legal work Part II - 1728 Dash - https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-legal-part-ii-oct.10786/
3) ATM Master Compliance Program Phase 1 - 748 Dash - https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-dash-atm-master-compliance-program-phase-i.10312/
4) Marketing - Brand & Design - 350 Dash - https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-marketing-brand-design.11279/
5) Lamassu epic failure of a project - 7327 Dash - Multiple threads on forums, slack etc asking for updates and silence for months and months!
6) Proton Mail Integration - countless developer hours with many meetings and travel and nothing? Saying "we did our part" and its up to them it not good enough in my books. How are we being proactive etc.
7) Mycelium Integration - ditto as above?

There is probably more too but dont have the time to do a full audit. Thats 11645++ Dash gone into thin air?? anyone? @kot @babygiraffe @eduffield

No worries, lets just open a new office and everyone will forget about it all. Let it be said again - I do not care if projects fail, communicate and document as to why, how it can be done better in future and how the Masternode community can vote smarter.

The lack of communication, care and behaviour of the core team is the major concern about how its being run. Trust and transparency is key - lose it once and its very hard to get back!

If you cannot manage this many projects in parallel DO NOT ASK FOR FUNDING!
 
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Thanks for creating this thread. I've been mainly focused on the lamassu project I didn't realize there might have been that many other core team/busdev projects too where we might benefit from a better transparency/communication channel.

In case anyone is interested, we're looking to put together a system where we can more effectively gather information and evaluate strengths and weaknesses of DGBB proposals on a case-by-case basis. We tend to focus so much on the current proposals, that often times old proposals might not get followed up on, and some of us feel that we need a better way to keep track of the proposals. Things like whether the proposal owners are sufficiently transparent, whether project milestones have been met, or if not, whether that has been addressed with an appropriate revised plan. Or how and when requests for additional information have been submitted to the proposal owner, and whether or not the owner addresses them in a reasonable way. It's been exciting to see our DGBB in action each month, but I feel that it would be a missed opportunity if we don't strive to continually learn from our successes and failures. This is something that we can apply to core-team proposals and non-core proposals alike--

Digging in the forum proposal threads, dashcentral proposal threads, and dashvotetracker vote histories can be a decent source of scattered information but I think we can do better, and it will help to have something to reference in case people get the temptation to start making too many unsupported claims or assumptions :p

Thanks to @bigrcanada for starting the conversation in our slack channel -- we have 70 Dash pledged to help kickstart this project if we can find an effective way to direct the funds. Stop by the #dgbb_auditing channel in the Dash Nation slack if you want to help us brainstorm. Or post here :). There are plenty of considerations for how the DGBB is evolving for upcoming versions of Dash as well so we could really use some help coming up with a good solution that will be widely agreeable and hopefully won't need to be totally reworked in a matter of months.
 
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I wish to echo the sentiment above... I'm also an owner operator of multiple masternodes and I too am becoming increasingly concerned with the lack of progress/updates on a number of 'non-core development' related projects that received a significant amount of funding from the DGBB system.

In addition to @Stealth923 's question I have one:

Could @kot, @babygiraffe or @eduffield clarify how much of the approx 11645D of funding is still under control of the treasury or the proposal owner (or assigned dash project manager) please? How much of it has already been paid to the relevant contractors? Apologies if this information is already documented somewhere else.

Thanks

Walter
 
Walter said:
I wish to echo the sentiment above... I'm also an owner operator of multiple masternodes and I too am becoming increasingly concerned with the lack of progress/updates on a number of 'non-core development' related projects that received a significant amount of funding from the DGBB system.

In addition to @Stealth923 's question I have one:

Could @kot, @babygiraffe or @eduffield clarify how much of the approx 11645D of funding is still under control of the treasury or the proposal owner (or assigned dash project manager) please? How much of it has already been paid to the relevant contractors? Apologies if this information is already documented somewhere else.

Thanks

Walter
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Legal work - payment address is XnNdk5s2JNPEVYB4brKmfFNuotoujWEuQd - balance is 1,733.46 Dash (you can view it on the blockchain)
We had a balance of over $13,000 with the law firm as of the end of November, so in addition to the 1,733.46 Dash, we have a balance from the first retainer remaining.

ATM Master compliance program - the full amount was paid to the retainer at Cogent, but I don't have the current retainer balance. I'm working on getting an update on the retainer balance and the progress. Should have an update by middle of next week.

Marketing brand and design - The full amount is still in our control. XpYyAnxCrvwa3tpV77ByH5VTyqJ3JgfN4T (viewable on the blockchain) - We will pay the vendor when the work product is accepted.

Lamassu - The payment address belongs to the vendor, so the network paid the vendor directly. I don't allow this type of arrangement ever since I took over financial operations in April. So the vendor - Git Guild - has control over any balances.
 
Roslyn said:
Trust, but verify.
Russian proverb.
Blockchains verify.
Click to expand...

"Trust but not verify" I think it was one of the motos of the Jesuits.
It was a phrase said by Theodotus bishop of Ankyra the 431 AC at the Council of Ephesus.
He said: "believe to the miracles and do not verify"
 
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babygiraffe said:
Legal work - payment address is XnNdk5s2JNPEVYB4brKmfFNuotoujWEuQd - balance is 1,733.46 Dash (you can view it on the blockchain)
We had a balance of over $13,000 with the law firm as of the end of November, so in addition to the 1,733.46 Dash, we have a balance from the first retainer remaining.

ATM Master compliance program - the full amount was paid to the retainer at Cogent, but I don't have the current retainer balance. I'm working on getting an update on the retainer balance and the progress. Should have an update by middle of next week.

Marketing brand and design - The full amount is still in our control. XpYyAnxCrvwa3tpV77ByH5VTyqJ3JgfN4T (viewable on the blockchain) - We will pay the vendor when the work product is accepted.

Lamassu - The payment address belongs to the vendor, so the network paid the vendor directly. I don't allow this type of arrangement ever since I took over financial operations in April. So the vendor - Git Guild - has control over any balances.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info @babygiraffe :) Hopefully we'll see some of these investments come to fruition during Q1 2017.

Many thanks

Walter
 
Walter said:
In addition to @Stealth923 's question I have one:

Could @kot, @babygiraffe or @eduffield clarify how much of the approx 11645D of funding is still under control of the treasury or the proposal owner (or assigned dash project manager) please? How much of it has already been paid to the relevant contractors? Apologies if this information is already documented somewhere else.

Thanks

Walter
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Why do you ask silly questions and you bother babygiraffe? All the information you are searching for is here http://dashvotetracker.com/past.html and here https://www.dashninja.pl/budgets.html

For example:
Are you searching for "Dash ATM Master Compliance Program - Phase I" ?
go to http://dashvotetracker.com/past.html
then find the proposal and click "details".
this will lead you here:
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/bsdev-ATMCompliance1
mark the url bsdev-ATMCompliance1
and go to
https://www.dashninja.pl/budgets.html
and search for "bsdev-ATMCompliance1"
click on it and you will go to
https://www.dashninja.pl/budgetdetails.html?budgetid=bsdev-ATMCompliance1
Click the payment address
https://explorer.dashninja.pl/address/Xn9Wky3Ssda8vqDfRMK7z31tmF2okemRBe
and you will see that it has been paid (because the payment address received the total amount (748.99) and now the funds have been withdrawn and the ballance is 5)


Lets check now how much credible babygiraffe is.
babygiraffe said:
Marketing brand and design - The full amount is still in our control. XpYyAnxCrvwa3tpV77ByH5VTyqJ3JgfN4T (viewable on the blockchain) - We will pay the vendor when the work product is accepted.
Click to expand...

If you do the procedure I explained above you arrive at:
https://www.dashninja.pl/budgetdetails.html?budgetid=mrktg-graphic-201611
babygiraffe claims that the funds are still under their control simply because the funds have not been withdrawn yet from the Payment Address, as you can see here:
https://explorer.dashninja.pl/address/XpYyAnxCrvwa3tpV77ByH5VTyqJ3JgfN4T

babygiraffe also said:
babygiraffe said:
Two tenants I've followed since taking over the finances are 1) no Dash denominated contracts lasting more than three months (because of potential price appreciation), and 2) no payments directly to vendors (the core team should be the intermediary unless the network decides otherwise). This approach is working well with Wall of Coins, which is on budget and on time right now.
Click to expand...

Its up to you now to judge whether the funds are really under the control of babygiraffe or not and whether he is credible or not. (hint: what if the job is not done? who takes the money?)

"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
 
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These reports are nice, but what has actually been accomplished by all this? What use is it? How did the DASH project, and the MNs, materially benefit from the money that is extracted (no matter what with no value/benefit contest)?
 
If I could add something here, it would be that we need to a) prioritize communication, and b) delegate.

a) When something relevant happens, post a note about it somewhere. For example, with the Legal Proposal, it would have taken less than five minutes to post "by the way guys, this is delayed because our lawyer changed firms." Bam! All done. It doesn't take much time--it just has to be made a priority.

b) Delegate! There are a number of people, myself included, who are ready, willing, and able to help. Give us some work to do! There are plenty of people who can help with minor detail work so that y'all can focus on big-picture stuff.
 
I do think if something went wrong or wasn't handled well, just come up with it straight away.

Do not wait for us to PROMPT before an update is given which seems to be how it is lately. Sooner or later it will come up and the way I know how things are, the longer you sit on it, the worse it will become. Indeed if the project manager doesn't have time to update the status, then the project manager is either overworked or not doing their jobs.

Yes I understand people are handling a lot of things but if the person has no time to update, then what hope do we have that they are managing the project?

To me, as David said, updates are NOT a priority. I think they're beginning to forget that the money isn't theirs to begin with. I don't oppose to what Core is doing and I know they are well intentioned but perhaps it's time for us to use our votes to at least show dissatisfaction even if it means cutting funding from non critical but 'nice to have' projects.
 
BolehVPN said:
I think they're beginning to forget that the money isn't theirs to begin with.
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Beginning? It's a nepotistic piggy bank funded by clueless rubes, and was designed to be exactly that. I warned about this from day one, and outlined a much better budget system that couldn't be abused like this. But, that was the whole point. It was meant to be abused, which is why it was designed in precisely a manner which could be abused even though plenty of other, simpler, dynamic, and much more graceful ideas were presented. Superblocks, fuck me... Dumb.

10% is pulled without any good reason. May as well spend it. It is theirs. What else you gonna do with it? It's being pulled out of the blockchain no matter what. There is no value test "is this worth more than leaving the money in the blockchain" because it's being yanked no matter what. May as well waste it on hookers and blow...

Often they work to dream up crap just to fill the budget, since any serious person has already seen the clowning and doesn't want to get involved. Anyone with real skills already gets paid, and the MNs downvote anything that isn't dirt cheap. Who wants to throw away their valuable skills to work for a bunch of demanding, clueless brats that demand free stuff and question nonsense out of left field every 10 minutes? And get paid dirt to do it? Why not just stick with your day job, get paid more, and not have to put up with any of the entitled snowflake bullshit? DASH is the worst marketplace for any skillset, and nobody with actual skill or ability will sell themselves so terribly short.

They like to tout the DGBB as a success, but reality is that they get to keep all the free money for nothing because nobody else wants it. It just isn't worth it, and pretty much anything else in life is a better investment of time and resources.

DASH holders are being played. Just like little kids play house, we're helping basement-dwelling neo-soviets play corporation. The feeling of "being part of something important and corporate" overwhelms the clueless simps and blinds them to what a scam it is... They don't care as long as they feel like they're doing something. Oooo, look! A report! I totally just voted, almost like a real board of directors! I feel like such a bigshot in my mommy's basement! And what was actually DONE? How did this help? Herp de derp...
 
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camosoul said:
10% is pulled without any good reason. May as well spend it. It is theirs. What else you gonna do with it? It's being pulled out of the blockchain no matter what. There is no value test "is this worth more than leaving the money in the blockchain" because it's being yanked no matter what. May as well waste it on hookers and blow...
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Any number that has no reason behind, should be voted.

camosoul said:
They like to tout the DGBB as a success, but reality is that they get to keep all the free money for nothing because nobody else wants it. It just isn't worth it, and pretty much anything else in life is a better investment of time and resources.
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I invest all my time and all my resources here in this silly place, just to convince the people that they should vote the numbers.
 
Anyone who goes against the folks in charge round here is sidelined and labeled a troll. Stop complaining and wasting your efforts and go find better community to put your value into. These guys are just playing a big ol game of profiteering. Beware.

Can't believe I wasted my time on this place, let alone still feel bad for everyone still following this ruse.
 
TheDashGuy said:
Anyone who goes against the folks in charge round here is sidelined and labeled a troll. Stop complaining and wasting your efforts and go find better community to put your value into. These guys are just playing a big ol game of profiteering. Beware.

Can't believe I wasted my time on this place, let alone still feel bad for everyone still following this ruse.
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Can't believe you are still wasting our time in this place, let alone make others feel bad who are visiting here. Can't you do what you told us so many times already
and just move on? Unless you came back here for trolling purposes only ?
 
qwizzie said:
Can't believe you are still wasting our time in this place, let alone make others feel bad who are visiting here. Can't you do what you told us so many times already and just move on? Unless you came back here for trolling purposes only ?
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Or maybe he "feels bad for everyone still following this ruse", thats why he is still here.
He feels bad about you when you follow something he considers as a ruse, so he is still here to warn you about it.
 
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TheDashGuy said:
Anyone who goes against the folks in charge round here is sidelined and labeled a troll. Stop complaining and wasting your efforts and go find better community to put your value into. These guys are just playing a big ol game of profiteering. Beware.

Can't believe I wasted my time on this place, let alone still feel bad for everyone still following this ruse.
Click to expand...

I didn't notice anybody labeling Ericsammons, fible1, or anyone else who opposed the business development proposal a troll for expressing their point of view. The OP of this thread hasn't gotten flak either
 
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