Why did Dash fail so miserably? Here is the main reason. And here is a proposal for a way out of this failure.

[daf]

Below is my rant, copied and pasted from Reddit.
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Anyone who has ever used Dash as a currency knows perfectly well that Dash, for ten years, has accomplished what Bitcoin continues to be unable to do: immediately confirmed transactions in a completely decentralized way, with very low fees. This truth can be verified by anyone: the use of Dash in daily life has been technically possible for many years, in line with the initial project of the founder of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, Satoshi Nakamoto.

Anyone who has taken a look at the Dash price chart also knows that Dash has completely failed to have its technical value recognized in the market. So much so that today it threatens to disappear.

What is the main reason ? In my opinion, the downside is Dash's budgetary system, the one that allows masternode operators (MNOs) to vote each month to finance development projects, those that would make it possible to further simplify the use of Dash, or to promote his qualities. This budgetary system is completely flawed. Why ? Because it finances promises, not results.

I no longer even dare to look at the endless history of projects which, over the past ten years, have been funded while the majority of these projects (not all, but the majority) have not allowed any additional development of Dash, at all possible meanings of the word “development”. Every masternode operator should be deeply ashamed of having voted to allocate large budgets to a large number of incompetents, dreamers, even crooks, who pocketed the sums before disappearing.

The problem is that masternode operators have too often trusted just anyone. The problem, for years, has been too much confidence from masternode operators towards budget seekers.

We must fundamentally review the budgetary system. WE ABSOLUTELY MUST STOP PAYING FOR PROMISES, WE MUST PAY FOR RESULTS.

My proposal for this (which I invite you to discuss): separate the budgetary payment into two votes. Suppose a candidate presents a project to obtain a certain amount of dashes.

1. A first vote by the masternode operators (if they judge that the project is solid for the future of Dash) will allocate 50% of this amount to the candidate, and will block the other 50% at a given address on the blockchain.
2. Later, after inspection by the MNOs of the actual results of the work of the budget beneficiary, a second vote is taken for or against the release of the remaining 50%.

You get the idea. MNOs must absolutely be able to incentivize budget candidates to get to work for Dash, but also must be able to sanction them if the results are poor.

Whatever the details of this reform, we must profoundly correct Dash's budgetary system, which is its major handicap, the main reason for its failure, and what will ultimately kill Dash if no deep reform is made.

 

[vazaki3]

And who will code your idea?

 

[daf]

Not me, I am not a coder, only a MNO.

It is precisely because we must draw on the talents of others that we must have a budgetary system that incentivizes and sanctions.

Continuing with the current budgetary system is suicidal.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

In the real world, when I want things done, I never pay all the money upfront because I have seen what happens when you do; workers are always itching to move on to their next job. Thus, their work will be rushed / unfinished. I completely agree that incentives have to be correctly structured.

Having said that, the next question should probably be, can this be reproduced within the dash dao framework? This, I find, is much harder to solve as you'd need to satisfy the selfish motives of all MNOs, which are not commonly aligned.

I wonder if it would be better for Proposal Owners to collateralize their work. Say, for example, a PO seeks 10 dash per month for 6 months. The collateral would be 60 dash and returned at the end of 6 months. Then, additionally, with MNO approval, the following month would yield another 60 dash reward for getting the job done.

In other words, Proposal Owners must balance their collateral against the profit they seek, while having some confidence that MNOs will approve their reward. If MNOs decide not to pay the final reward, then at least the PO gets their money back and their only loss is opportunity loss. All this can be written into time locked transactions.

From everything I've seen, non of this will ever happen unless DCG themselves propose this. That's how you know dash governance is badly broken. Beyond simple Yes No questions, all Core products are driven by themselves. Community feedback in dash is nothing more than window dressing.

For any coin / project, poor governance makes it an easy sell for me. In the case of dash, all I see is a DCG product, peddling their wares as a protocol... it's not a protocol, it's all rather superficial.

I am not interested in projects so centralized, it could pivot direction on a whim. Not least that dash is managed by a relatively small number of people with their feet comfortable under the table. If DCG had balls, they would of worked to dismantle the masternode network with other "protocols", much like eCash (XEC) is doing. But haha, not a chance that's happening. DCG seem to be more interested in gentrifying the network. It won't be long before they up the collateral to 10x instead of 4x.

I don't know how many years since Sam promised to look at governance once Platform was out of the way, because for YEARS they were under resourced to do anything else. And you know what? - Platform will be delivered "beta" with plenty of work to keep them fully occupied for another few years. They might move some governance to Platform but I can guarantee all changes, the only changes, will only happen with their blessing.

 

[Dans]

I am happy to see that some people are beginning to understand what many of us saw years ago.

This is like the happy 20s before the war, while everything is going well, no one cares about shoring things up, but when it breaks down the rats run away and the fools get burned.

We are in the final stage of this project. Its creator knew how to abandon ship in time to avoid sinking.

Dash's failure has been due solely to wanting to be everything without encompassing anything. I said it a thousand times, if the currency had been left as it was in 2018 and the budget had been left to invest in infrastructure such as buying a bank, buying ATMs, creating a real credit card, or even a percentage of purchases in precious metals, Dash would now have real intrinsic value.

On the contrary, such a huge percentage of garbage has been financed that any idiot understands that here is a community manipulated by MNs who have control of the decisions, no matter how absurd they may be.

Already in Ryan's time, the theft and fraud on the budget bordered on the implausible. But not only was nothing learned, but money continued to be given to DCG so that its components could live like kings for not giving anything at all.

I was tempted to add several more MN at the time due to the price drop, but seeing how so much Dash is financed and given away showed me that it will never gain traction as long as it is dominated by some MN that vote for dreams and not reality.

Meanwhile, a slow currency, without much acceptance, excluded from exchanges, persecuted by governments, knows its place, and continues to grow little by little, and gaining the sympathy of those who could have been our users, since our currency is infinitely better .

Greetings, and think that when they are ruined, at least DCG will disappear from this project and will have to start a new scam.

 

[vazaki3]

Dash failed so miserably because there is no voter accountability.

If someone can vote whatever he/she wants without consequences, the system collapses.

What Dash needs is to track the voters (mnowatch) , track the proposals (dashwatch) and then apply quality measurements to the proposals and to the voters who voted for the proposals.

You have to reward the good voters and punish those who do not comply to the standards.

Pre-Proposal: If there is no lamassu deliverable , should the masternodes who voted for it pay?

This is a pre-proposal, that may be added into the budget system if there is a lot of participation. To be informed about what happened to the lamassu project, just read here. If lamassu money is lost, should the masternodes who voted for it pay the loss?

www.dash.org

 

[gass-dash]

This budgetary system is completely flawed. Why ? Because it finances promises, not results.

yes, that is pretty dumb. The only reason the economy works is because people give away their money in exchange for whatever they find valuable at the moment of transaction. Promises don't even work sometimes in code

it will never gain traction as long as it is dominated by some MN that vote for dreams and not reality

food for thought

Why did Dash fail so miserably?​

how do you measure failure ?

 

[xkcd]

Dash is on the verge of finally delivering the long awaited Dash Evolution, 7 years in the making! It is interesting to see people fudding this news now at the eleventh hour. Curiously, the masternode count is not dropping, but rather increasing, the price drop has given a new cohort of investors the opportunity to get it just before a major upgrade. From where I stand things are looking good.

It's stated in this thread that Dash is failure. Why? Because the price has dropped? Are you still living in the fantasy that hard work pays? The fact that meme coins do so well and serious projects like Dash, ZEC, PIVX and Pulsechain etc do poorly should be your hint that the market is not valuing these assets correctly. Markets are a follow the leader type thing, when a trend develops, people just pile in on that trend, the same thing happened when Dash was rising, but of course the OP never questioned that! That was fine and to be expected, not only that, the OP and most others did not sell when the coin was obviously over priced. Now that we are trending down due to a massive profit take, suddenly everyone is highly agitated by that and using words like 'scam'.

What exactly did the core team do that is a scam? We know what scams look like, and nothing about Dash says it is one. There are valid criticisms to be made of the team, eg hopeless ability to deliver a product, bullshitting the community and slow output, but they could have scammed and rugged the project, but they never did. In fact, they work for less than market rates because they want to see this through. You can't wholly blame the devs for the poor price performance in the same way, we shouldn't have attributed the price rise to the founder and the devs at the time. In fact, the devs were in the process of failing to deliver Evo at the price time the price was making its record top!

When people make posts like this thread, I wish they were a bit more honest and said, I am miffed about the price, fuck you all, you bunch of cunts. Instead, we often get this cope, like Oh Dash needs slashing, the DAO is junk, the emission is too high, the miners are underpaid and so fucking on. It's disingenuois. We know the real reason for this post, it was the break of support at $25 and recent market wide altcoin flush. So, what big deal, the market stinks, buy memecoin if you're so desperate to make gains, the rest of us are investing in the tech we believe will make the world a better place.

 

[Dans]

What would you think as an investor or as a promoter of a project in which you have placed trust and money, if they asked you for more and more money over the years, and you did not see the promises delivered?

Aside from that, what would you think if your investment had been gradually reduced inexorably?

One day I said that owning a DIF in the Cayman Islands would be what would launch us into stardom. However, what could have turned us into a true digital cash, has become a joke.

We prefer to finance stupid things that have proven to be useless instead of investing in the creation of a decentralized payment model with a direct fiat bridge. Instead of launching our own dash/USD protocol we prefer to focus on promoting third-party businesses like bitrefill, maya, where commissions are unacceptable.

Instead of promoting the exchange of international currencies with the creation of a well-funded and promoted project such as an exclusive "pay pal", we focus on a platform that no one will use because one way or another we will have to continue changing our dash to usdt, BTC or ETH to be able to go to the market.

Monero pursued anonymity at any price, dash should have pursued being digital cash at any price.

Your letters are very pleasant to read, however I disagree that there have been no scams.

ALT36, free money to Venezuela, SMS dash, videos on YouTube with just 20 visits, the logo change for more than 200K$, promotion of airplanes for hundreds of thousands of dollars, payments from DCG people who did not contribute anything at the time like a certain "Gutierrez" and others. Fund the mercenary Kaiser...

No, it doesn't seem like a scam, however the MNs always vote against their interests, and fund DCG at any cost even though it has barely delivered anything in years, and if one day Dash can flourish again, the MNs will again destroy the attempt by squandering the budget on absurd expenses that do not bring anything intrinsic to the network.

who has those MN? That's the question you should ask yourself if you really hope to get this out of the way one day.

Go Dash!

 

[gass-dash]

Dash is on the verge of finally delivering the long awaited Dash Evolution, 7 years in the making! It is interesting to see people fudding this news now at the eleventh hour.

How do you know this ? .. Where can I read about it ?

 

[xkcd]

How do you know this ? .. Where can I read about it ?

Evo Accelerated Release - Dash

The Dash network participated over the last two weeks in a wonderful example of what makes us great. Masternodes collectively voted on whether we should have an accelerated release. This poll was aimed to understand the wishes of the network. We had multiple people advocate for releasing as soon...

www.dash.org

What would you think as an investor or as a promoter of a project in which you have placed trust and money, if they asked you for more and more money over the years, and you did not see the promises delivered?

No one had to buy more Dash, so strictly speaking, no one is asking for more money from investors. In case you are talking about proposals, to pass they always needed to reach a super majority of the votes. Were bad decisions made, yes. Especially at the start when the DAO was wet behind the ears and riding a wave of euphoria, we were all there and party to those bad decisions.

One day I said that owning a DIF in the Cayman Islands would be what would launch us into stardom. However, what could have turned us into a true digital cash, has become a joke.

We prefer to finance stupid things that have proven to be useless instead of investing in the creation of a decentralized payment model with a direct fiat bridge. Instead of launching our own dash/USD protocol we prefer to focus on promoting third-party businesses like bitrefill, maya, where commissions are unacceptable.

The DIF has been a disappointment but they do have some profitable assets and it is through the DIF that we are able to make proposal owners accountable, a recent example of that is where Crowdnode went for funding in the DAO to develop new features, in return, they gave equity to the DIF, the same was done with Ionia for DashDirect. Also, since the dissolution of the Dash Trust earlier this year, the DIF is now the sole shareholder of DCG which makes it property of the network, just another example of how the DIF helps us.

Monero pursued anonymity at any price, dash should have pursued being digital cash at any price.

Yep. To that end, through the DAO a decision was made that caused Ryan Taylor to step down, another win for the holders of this coin.

ALT36, free money to Venezuela, SMS dash, videos on YouTube with just 20 visits, the logo change for more than 200K$, promotion of airplanes for hundreds of thousands of dollars, payments from DCG people who did not contribute anything at the time like a certain "Gutierrez" and others. Fund the mercenary Kaiser...

We made mistakes, it is to be expected, but since these are all ancient history, I wonder if we as a network have learned from them?

No, it doesn't seem like a scam, however the MNs always vote against their interests, and fund DCG at any cost even though it has barely delivered anything in years, and if one day Dash can flourish again, the MNs will again destroy the attempt by squandering the budget on absurd expenses that do not bring anything intrinsic to the network.

Sorry, but this is FUD, The DCG deliver constantly, that is they keep upgrading the core protocol, maintain the iOS and Android wallets, been delivering Platform, maintain our infra eg website, testnet and other infra that facilitates the network.

It's really disappointing to see you so upset these days (because of the price) that through your rage you can't see any good. My advice if you take it, is tune out, take a rest, come back in 12 months and see what's happening. Try to get the emotions out of it and consider it from an outside perspective. All the best.

 

[Dans]

I consider you a person capable of being impartial and observing the facts from enough distance to make coherent decisions.

Everything you try to refute I could refute again, and we would enter an infinite and absurd loop that will only take away our time.

According to you, things are being done well, and from my point of view, that is not the case. Making this clear, I only have to remind you that Dash has been stagnant for years in its number of daily transactions. We move between 10,000 and 20,000 for a long time, and
that shows us that hardly anyone uses this network.




Discounting payments from nodes, and the market makers of many exchanges, the number of transactions is absurd to try to bring a product to the market as a global means of payments.

Do you think that the platform will be able to put us above one million transactions like ETH does, or at least 250,000 of BCH or 700,000 of DOGE?

The power of a network is in the number of users, and today Dash is worth what it is worth because no one uses it.

Do you dare to predict that Dash and its expensive platform in time and money will attract thousands of users?

Os aseguro que esto no va a pasar, y que no va a haber apenas cambios en el número de personas que usan dash. Y ya he explicado el motivo, mientras Dash no tenga pasarela de pagos en USD, la gente tendrá que pasar por BTC, USDT y ETH para acceder a Dash, y esto no interesa a los usuarios porque tiene comisiones y una pérdida de tiempo.

Using bitrefill or maya is really crazy. Any credit card is infinitely cheaper in fees.

How can you tell people to use Dash if they then have to lose a lot of money in commissions to be able to buy something.

Pretending to be digital money and needing to pay commissions to third parties to be able to spend a handful of Dash is a joke.

Either we take this seriously or we better ball it up and throw it in the trash.

All the best.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

First of all, just want to say that using bitrefill, I have to pay 15% extra to buy phone loads.

And secondly, people are welcome to visit dash.blue to see an animated chart for the past 180 days (updated daily) showing the volume-price of both dash and litecoin. One of them looks dead.

 

[Dashmarketmaker]

Dash is great, for me dash like btc, its need time, maybe 1 year,2 or more and it will shine.
Price is down, i bought when it 30,20 and will buy more when it lower, using my own research i think soon dash go lower then 20, and all you need is buy!
You should read history of people who have thousands of btc and sell it 5-10 dollars per btc, same is dash, it has potential, but you decide hold it or no.
So my conclusion is next, buy dash it will rise, but you should be ready it may not rise this cycle.

 

[Dans]

I don't see any reason why dash should go up.

You can shout as loud as you want, but this will not make dash go up.

lots of coins are instant and cheap, lots are private, lots are defi...

dash fulfills its role? From my point of view that's how it is, but just like many others.

We have been waiting for that great platform for years, and the market has not even looked at us. BTC at 20% of its ath, and dash at prices from years ago and at minimums compared to BTC.

open your eyes once and for all. Dash will die from lack of use and interest. It is not a good payment method, since there is no direct bridge with fiat, and third-party platforms pay high commissions.

They never opted for good marketing... it was said that when the platform was ready a big launch would be planned with a lot of marketing, and that is not going to happen.

The budget has been burned as usual... dash was perfect in 2015/2016 but the wrong paths were followed by financing garbage instead of putting it to real use.

Now others, more intelligent, have taken over and will not let go. It is no longer worth blaming anyone, we must accept that there are projects that flourish and others that wither.

keep buying Dash, many nodes will thank you, and also DCG will soon invent a new excuse to extend to infinity something that no one will use and that, as we see in the price of Dash, no one cares.

Greetings and health.

 

[gass-dash]

I don't see any reason why dash should go up.

You can shout as loud as you want, but this will not make dash go up.

lots of coins are instant and cheap, lots are private, lots are defi...

dash fulfills its role? From my point of view that's how it is, but just like many others.

We have been waiting for that great platform for years, and the market has not even looked at us. BTC at 20% of its ath, and dash at prices from years ago and at minimums compared to BTC.

open your eyes once and for all. Dash will die from lack of use and interest. It is not a good payment method, since there is no direct bridge with fiat, and third-party platforms pay high commissions.

They never opted for good marketing... it was said that when the platform was ready a big launch would be planned with a lot of marketing, and that is not going to happen.

The budget has been burned as usual... dash was perfect in 2015/2016 but the wrong paths were followed by financing garbage instead of putting it to real use.

Now others, more intelligent, have taken over and will not let go. It is no longer worth blaming anyone, we must accept that there are projects that flourish and others that wither.

keep buying Dash, many nodes will thank you, and also DCG will soon invent a new excuse to extend to infinity something that no one will use and that, as we see in the price of Dash, no one cares.

Greetings and health.

it seems that all your negative allegations are based on price. if you take a look at Dash through a different lens you might be surprised -> navigate through Trustpilot scores on different cryptos and you'll see that Dash is actually giving people a pretty good UX compare to most. isn't that what is all about at the end of the day ? .. feeling happy about the experience of using a currency ?

if there were a ranking website, similar to CoinMarketCap, for cryptos based on UX instead of price, I suspect Dash would be pretty high on it.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Unfortunately, dash's incentives and governance is fucked up and I'm not sure how it can be fixed at this point.

When I first got into dash, it seemed miraculous that I could buy a seat at the table and reap rewards forever, knowing an artificial economic ceiling was in place to limit the number of node participants. This is in contrast to other system where more liquidity equates to lower returns i.e. market forces find equilibrium somewhere close to zero. Thus, the idea of a free market is played upon. And as the block rewards dropped, both masternodes and the treasury demanded a larger share to help compensate for their "losses". What kind of system is that? Do people on the inside believe people on the outside can not see such behavior? We may say "the supply never changed" but nevertheless, it is the definition of a rigged system.

Why would dash super whales, some running 10's or 100;s of nodes, vote for a change that would cripple them?

Believe it or not, many outsiders can see the broken mechanics, they know something is not quite right. But for those brave enough, new investors may reasonably ask themselves, given this ability to re-slice this apple pie, how can I be sure this economic playground won't one day work against me? Knowing full well dash governance is managed by a relatively small group of people, it's understandable how this can leave a somewhat bad taste in their mouth.

Will Platform save the day? Not sure. When I asked a question of how much 1GB database storage would cost me and how much access would cost to read, say, 3000 rows per hour, there were no answers. I guess discord is the only place that can answer this, so if someone wants to ask for me, thank you. It just seems to me this is one of the most basic things a developer might want to know.

All things considered, it's difficult to say what happens next.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

if there were a ranking website, similar to CoinMarketCap, for cryptos based on UX instead of price, I suspect Dash would be pretty high on it.

Yes please, I'd like to see something like this, but perhaps with a few more filters. I want to filter by fungibility ease of use, and also by country / region. I also want to filter between desktop and mobile users, because mobile users are going to be the ones actually spending IRL. The big problem you have though, just because you build it, how do you get enough eyeballs on it to actually make a change in perception?

 

[Dans]

it seems that all your negative allegations are based on price. if you take a look at Dash through a different lens you might be surprised -> navigate through Trustpilot scores on different cryptos and you'll see that Dash is actually giving people a pretty good UX compare to most. isn't that what is all about at the end of the day ? .. feeling happy about the experience of using a currency ?

if there were a ranking website, similar to CoinMarketCap, for cryptos based on UX instead of price, I suspect Dash would be pretty high on it.

My accusations are not just based on price, they are based on end user usability. Give me a reason to exchange $100 on an exchange for Dash, then I will have $95 left after commissions, after a few months that Dash will have dropped in price and will be worth $70, then I will use bitrefill to buy an Amazon card leaving me with $60, for which I pay $70 in Dash... You must be kidding when you consider that price is secondary in a massive means of payment.

Run and invest your dollars in Argentine pesos, or in bolivars, you will see what happens. It seems that's all, put Dash at $1000 and the users will come, put it at $1 and you will have definitely ruined the project.

Believe what you want, reality is what it is. All the best

 

[Dashmarketmaker]

My accusations are not just based on price, they are based on end user usability. Give me a reason to exchange $100 on an exchange for Dash, then I will have $95 left after commissions, after a few months that Dash will have dropped in price and will be worth $70, then I will use bitrefill to buy an Amazon card leaving me with $60, for which I pay $70 in Dash... You must be kidding when you consider that price is secondary in a massive means of payment.

Run and invest your dollars in Argentine pesos, or in bolivars, you will see what happens. It seems that's all, put Dash at $1000 and the users will come, put it at $1 and you will have definitely ruined the project.

Believe what you want, reality is what it is. All the best

I use ethereum, and when its time pick like now, transactions can cost 30$ per transaction to wallet, same with usdc on ethereum, to send 1000 usdc pay 30 dollar fee transaction is not ok.

With dash no such problem, offcourse its because no too much transactions and difficulty, you just sent it to binance, with low fee, sell it comission 0.1%? And use p2p, 1% maximum lose.
U fill your bank account with how much u spent for a week thats all.

Now with such volatility ofcourse is not ok to use it, but i believe some day dash will cost 100 dollar and more per 1 dash, and all will be happy who buy it now with this prices, and possible lower. Just not buy all with one price.

When solana was 8 dollars i heard same things and read same posts like here.