InstantSend / PrivateSend

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This acts as a forum for all InstantSend and PrivateSend Questions

 

[Tallyho]

There is no transaction to/from masternodes. The masternodes only assist the transaction from person A to person B, or in the case of PS mixing, from person A back to person A.

 

[[email protected]]

There is no transaction to/from masternodes. The masternodes only assist the transaction from person A to person B, or in the case of PS mixing, from person A back to person A.

Thank you

 

[Benglian]

Quick question. I decided to use privatesend for the first time. Just to see how it worked, and to fund a mobile wallet so I can use Bitcart.io.
I wanted to privatesend 0.5 DASH to my mobile wallet.
First I sent 0.02 DASH as a test.
I clicked through some dialogues.
It worked instantly (I'm quite impressed!)
So then I sent another 0.51 DASH.
Again I click through some dialogues.
I received the funds instantly!

Then I look at what I actually received and the associated fees.

First Transaction
Debit: -0.01800000 DASH
Transaction fee: -0.00200020 DASH
Net amount: -0.02000020 DASH

Second Transaction
Debit: -0.49900000 DASH
Transaction fee: -0.01100510 DASH
Net amount: -0.51000510 DASH

I appear to have sent 0.517 DASH at a cost of 0.0130051
This is a fee of just over 2.5% !!! It is $3.69 on a $147 transaction.


I am never using privatesend again! Not unless there's a very very good reason to!

Is this normal?

 

[Dandy]

Privatesend fee will be lowered in the next update (which should come in the next couple of weeks).
The regular fee will be lowered also.

 

[seascape]

I had the same shock the first time I tried Privatesend but I think I figured out what is going on. If anyone knows better please correct me. You have to bear in mind that the smallest Privatesend denomination is 0.01 Dash. If you are sending 0.51 Dash with the default settings the miners fee will be added on top. For argument let's say the fee is 0.0001 so you are really sending 0.5101 including the fee. BUT as the smallest denomination for Privatesend is 0.01 the amount deducted from your wallet will be 0.52 and the 0.0099 difference (about $2.97) will go as a generous bonus to the miner. If the amount to send does not have to be exact, the way to avoid this is to round the amount to the nearest 0.01 and check the box "Subtract fee from amount". If you sent your 0.51 Dash like that the recipient would get 0.5099 but the transaction cost would be the same as normal.

 

[jimbursch]

I'm not an expert, but @tungfa may be able offer greater insight.

the 0.0099 difference (about $2.97) will go as a generous bonus to the miner.

In my experience using PrivateSend, this is incorrect. If you attempted the transaction as described using Dash Core you would get a message saying something like "unable to make PrivateSend transaction" and you would have to make it a normal send to complete the transaction.

You will notice that your PrivateSend denomination look something like this "10.00001", "1.00001", "0.10001", etc. The purpose of that trailing 0.00001 is to pay the mining fee and that is the only mining fee paid in a PrivateSend transation.

Using your example of sending 0.51 Dash via PrivateSend, the transaction would look like this:

PrivateSend denominated inputs:

0.10001
0.10001
0.10001
0.10001
0.10001
0.01001
=
0.51006

which would mean a 0.00006 miners fee.

I figured this out when I was confused that I couldn't do a 1.5 Dash PrivateSend transaction even though I had a 10 Dash PrivateSend balance. The problem was that I didn't have enough low-denominated PrivateSend inputs to assemble the transaction.

Another principle of PrivateSend is that they are transactions that can never have change because change addresses can be used to track the sender. So to complete a PrivateSend transaction you have to have the exact right denominations (think of it as exact change) to assemble the transaction.

 

[tungfa]

I'm not an expert, but @tungfa may be able offer greater insight.



In my experience using PrivateSend, this is incorrect. If you attempted the transaction as described using Dash Core you would get a message saying something like "unable to make PrivateSend transaction" and you would have to make it a normal send to complete the transaction.

You will notice that your PrivateSend denomination look something like this "10.00001", "1.00001", "0.10001", etc. The purpose of that trailing 0.00001 is to pay the mining fee and that is the only mining fee paid in a PrivateSend transation.

Using your example of sending 0.51 Dash via PrivateSend, the transaction would look like this:

PrivateSend denominated inputs:

0.10001
0.10001
0.10001
0.10001
0.10001
0.01001
=
0.51006

which would mean a 0.00006 miners fee.

I figured this out when I was confused that I couldn't do a 1.5 Dash PrivateSend transaction even though I had a 10 Dash PrivateSend balance. The problem was that I didn't have enough low-denominated PrivateSend inputs to assemble the transaction.

Another principle of PrivateSend is that they are transactions that can never have change because change addresses can be used to track the sender. So to complete a PrivateSend transaction you have to have the exact right denominations (think of it as exact change) to assemble the transaction.

sorry - wrong guy
you need @UdjinM6 for these kind of questions

 

[seascape]

Thanks Jim, I am learning little by little. I thought it would be interesting to test it out so I sent myself two transactions of 0.51, both using PrivateSend. The first one had "Subtract fee from amount" unchecked and the second had it checked.

You can see the transactions at address Xb816wb6Dn1m7u3QauJE5oogLssDB9vhCF



So Jim, your breakdown was not quite correct because in the case of "Subtract from Amount" OFF there was an extra input of 0.01 (and the number zeros was different as well).

0.100001
0.100001
0.100001
0.100001
0.100001
0.0100001
0.0100001
=
0.5200052

The amount received was exactly 0.51 so the miner got the difference of 0.0100052 (about $3).

With "Subtract from amount" ON the inputs were:

0.100001
0.100001
0.100001
0.100001
0.100001
0.0100001
=
0.5100051

The amount received was 0.50990592 so the miner got 0.00009918 (about $0.029).

So in conclusion, if the amount to be received by the recipient is a little flexible it is much cheaper to use PrivateSend using round numbers (to two decimal places) and checking "Subtract from amount".

 

[jimbursch]

Thanks @seascape. It will be interesting to see @UdjinM6 assessment.

BTW - with the release of Dash Core 12.2, I believe the fees are going down by a factor of 10.

 

[solarguy]

Thanks @seascape. It will be interesting to see @UdjinM6 assessment.

BTW - with the release of Dash Core 12.2, I believe the fees are going down by a factor of 10.

And.........12.2 is live. Or, it's sorta live, and it will go completely live when a certain percentage of MN switch over. Something like that.

On average, somebody calculated our average fee is (approximately, by memory) 1/215 th of Bitcoin now.