Forking Megathread

[camosoul]

So is this resolved now? Has the fork been unforked? I've been away from a computer for most of the evening and can't see any info on what happened and what we should do.

In light of this I think I'm just going to go to bed and not get out until I feel it is safe again to do so.

A large group of outdated masternodes is being deliberately maintained to keep the network forked up. Someone(s) is putting a lot of money into causing this.

Oddly, as everyone complains of their mn daemons crashing, mine don't anymore. 0.11.0.6+ has been rock solid. All previous versions were constantly crashing on me...

 

[tungfa]

A large group of outdated masternodes is being deliberately maintained to keep the network forked up. Someone(s) is putting a lot of money into causing this.

Let's pull the plug then !
kick old versions off the network (no more payments + not recognized by v11) and done ?!
:wink:

 

[camosoul]

Let's pull the plug then !
kick old versions off the network (no more payments + not recognized by v11) and done ?!
:wink:

Not sure it would even work. The old nodes are so large in quantity, punting them would still result in nothing but a fork as there are so many they can simply persist their own ecosystem.

The manual chain propogation I described in another thread has kept my nodes feeding off of each other and unforked...

 

[tungfa]

Not sure it would even work. The old nodes are so large in quantity, punting them would still result in nothing but a fork as there are so many they can simply persist their own ecosystem.

ja but don't they run them to get paid ?!
so if they do not get paid, eventually they will come back (to us and payments and same fork) !?

 

[camosoul]

ja but don't they run them to get paid ?!
so if they do not get paid, eventually they will come back (to us and payments and same fork) !?

My point is, unless they are overwhelmed by percentage, that won't happen. They'll just keep promoting their own fork with their own payments.

 

[tungfa]

My point is, unless they are overwhelmed by percentage, that won't happen. They'll just keep promoting their own fork with their own payments.

K
i heat you
but if payment is "cut off"
(no payments below v11, new update)
then they have the incentive to join v11 and 'our' fork !

(not sure how possible that is in coding terms)

 

[camosoul]

K
i heat you
but if payment is "cut off"
(no payments below v11, new update)
then they have the incentive to join v11 and 'our' fork !

(not sure how possible that is in coding terms)

Thats the point. Its not feasible. If they get rejected, they consider the rejects wrong and go their own way on a fork that accepts. You could do that if the bad actors were, say, 10% because theyvwould island by probability. But at 45%+ they can propogate their own reality no matter what a new version dictates. Think of it like half of the population of a country refusing to obey a new law. Ther is nothing that can be done with mass defiance like that.

 

[tungfa]

Thats the point. Its not feasible. If they get rejected, they consider the rejects wrong and go their own way on a fork that accepts. You could do that if the bad actors were, say, 10% because theyvwould island by probability. But at 45%+ they can propogate their own reality no matter what a new version dictates. Think of it like half of the population of a country refusing to obey a new law. Ther is nothing that can be done with mass defiance like that.

ok
but if that 45% of a country does not get food and water anymore (MN payments)
they will come running to the other (sunny) side ?!
correct ?

 

[camosoul]

ok
but if that 45% of a country does not get food and water anymore (MN payments)
they will come running to the other (sunny) side ?!
correct ?

They are 45%. They make their own food and water.

Thats the very reson for the fork; they are self-sustaining. If you change the rules, they just play by the old rules.

 

[tungfa]

They are 45%. They make their own food and water.

Thats the very reson for the fork; they are self-sustaining. If you change the rules, they just play by the old rules.

sorry, i know i am not the smartest in this

how can they make their own food and water (payments)
when the environment (code) is changed that no more water and food will drop on them ?
(change v10 to no more payments, change v11 to payments only)

Isn't that what the higher spirit (evan) is capable of ?
As this is not a democracy (where you can chose your fork) !

 

[camosoul]

Their code is not changed.

I'd suggest that 0.11.0.12 revert to agreeing with 0.10.xx.xx

Then package the new win vote system along with a bigger carrot, like ITX. There is no stick option. There is only carrot bigger than the carrot of forking DRK. Which may be impossible. It seems bad actor has put a lot of money into this. Unless someone buys another 1200 MNs, you aren't going to strongarm him. There may be no thing of greater value in this bad actor's mind than forking up DRK forever. Being nice leads to completely losing the stick option, and eventually... This is why I called for more stick previously. Now there is no stick at all. In a world of dirty animals, sometimes you just have break out some carnage to make a point. Too late now...

Its a bad idea because the reasons for the fix were declared... So its almost like the changelog becomes an instruction manual for exploits...

But it may be less bad than perpetufork...

It seems that the theory that it would cost too much to undermine MNs has been tested and found in error. If I really wanted to tinfoil this, I'd say the crypto crash was designed to get DRK cheap enough to pull this off. Would not have happened with $20/DRK...

 

[tungfa]

Their code is not changed.

I'd suggest that 0.11.0.12 revert to agreeing with 0.10.xx.xx

Then package the new win vote system along with a bigger carrot, like ITX.

i know
but can't we do it !
(change their v10 code so they have to join v11)

 

[camosoul]

Break into all of their computers and install our own programs at will?

If masternodes all ran on Windows, sure... but they run on Linux, so, no...

 

[tungfa]

Tx cam
appreciate the "dummy translations" for me

i am :sad: now

 

[Miner237]

what if the v11 MN owners were running some scripts on the MN that killed connections from the old protocol MNs? not sure if it's been helping but I've been killing any out of date peers from being connected to my updated MN and only allowing 70054 to connect to my node.

I guess as cam was saying they will all just peer with each other and eventually it would form the onyxnet?

 

[camosoul]

what if the v11 MN owners were running some scripts on the MN that killed connections from the old protocol MNs? not sure if it's been helping but I've been killing any out of date peers from being connected to my updated MN and only allowing 70054 to connect to my node.

I guess as cam was saying they will all just peer with each other and eventually it would form the onyxnet?

Until they can be sufficiently outnumbered, I can't see a way... even considered banning the vins from being declared valid MN... essentially doing what you have been doing... but still fork, just for another reason. Might buy time for consesnus... but still, onyxnet will exist...

Having a routine with a hardcoded list of banned vins is just asking for a shitload more trouble than it solves... its open source, ban any vin association you like by cut and paste...

Looking ugly... Evanator, be way smarter than all of us, again. Still. Please?

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

So, if these Masternodes fork DRK, can't we just let them go and continue? We will have the Dev team on this fork, and they will have nothing but old code...
Is that a possibility?

 

[moli]

Masternode owners should be required to register on a mailing list, and before every update emails should be sent out to them. Equal treatment as pools and miners.

 

[camosoul]

I think there is a combination of options thqt can make onyxnet irrelevant and the bad actor(s) will get bored of losing impact.

 

[camosoul]

Masternode owners should be required to register on a mailing list, and before every update emails should be sent out to them. Equal treatment as pools and miners.

Centralization of voluntary action? Gain nothing forcible. Centralize for no benefit...