Donating DASH from the budget to the Venezuelan people

[yocko]

I am very interested in making a meaningful difference in the economy of Venezuela. And in fact, we are making meaningful progress and have a couple more proposals in the works that would also make a real difference.

We are funding monthly Dash seminars, specifically targeting local entrepreneurs. These are the people who will fix the Venezuelan economy. Every seminar has been packed. A larger venue has be rented every month, and still, more people come than anticipated. Thousands of entrepreneurs will have new tools to succeed and win in a very very difficult economic environment.

And, we very narrowly missed approving a local Bolivar/Dash exchange in the last budget cycle. 6 votes we missed it by. But that proposal will be back, and it will be improved and will likely pass. Ditto on the separate proposal for another local exchange. Once we have functional exchanges up where people can easily and directly convert the local crap fiat to a stable currency like Dash, then the magic starts to happen.

As correctly noted by Isobel C, injecting free money (even awesome money like Dash) into a damaged economic model like Venezuela almost universally has "unintended" bad consequences, and almost universally fails to fix the fundamental issue that caused the problem in the first place. Only by encouraging and facilitating people to start/run/grow businesses that deliver actual needed products and services, will we fix the underlying problems and make permanent and sustainable improvements in Venezuela.

So, by all means, continue to support the Dash seminars, and the Dash/Bolivar exchange proposals. I haven't had a chance to study the Venezuelan "help desk" prop, but that is likely also a legitimate way to push new life into the new economy of Venezuela.

I am not opposed to thoughtful charity, but I believe that should be left to the individual, not the Dash treasury system. That is not it's purpose, and it may do more harm than good. If it's a good/effective/clever proposal to market Dash more effectively in Venezuela, or start more Dash based businesses in Venezuela, or a better/easier Point Of Sale system that allows Venezuelan business to very easily accept Dash, I will happily promote those things with every ounce of strength that I have.

Yes a local Venezuela exchange would be great, however I don't believe the masternodes should fund another peer to peer exchange as we have two dedicated dash ones already. These exchanges we have should be promoted in Venezuela. Dashnearby.com and dashous.org
Spending money on building more of what we have is wasted money.

 

[solarguy]

Yes a local Venezuela exchange would be great, however I don't believe the masternodes should fund another peer to peer exchange as we have two dedicated dash ones already. These exchanges we have should be promoted in Venezuela. Dashnearby.com and dashous.org
Spending money on building more of what we have is wasted money.

I like the existence of several local exchanges since having only one or two provides for an easy means of shutting the crypto industry down in Venezuela. But I am more interested in their marketing plan, that's what Venezuela needs more than anything, just to become aware that they have an option besides the Bolivar.

 

[Roslyn]

This sounds like an exchange airdrop and Dash has done airdrops before.

This makes perfect sense because Dash is funding the broker in Venezuela.

 

[MrGold]

Someone commented that the Dash treasury should not fund charity. I'm trying to wrap my head around that. It seems like real money that helps real people could be a tremendous advertisement for Dash. Because Dash isn't just the ledger entries, Dash is also the treasury.

 

[Dandy]

Let's just be clear about what we are talking about here.
Charity is fine, as long as it's targeted at people that really need help.
If you just throw money around, it will not do any good in the long run and it just may add to corruption.

I would support any activity that puts urgently needed food and medicine directly into the hands of the people that need it.
I would support any activity that educates people in using Dash and any other skill that they may then use to better their own lives and their community as a whole.
I would support any funding that helps build the infrastructure that would enable people to buy/sell Dash and/or use it to buy goods and services.
I would not support giving away large sums of money/Dash to people, just so we can feel good about ourselves.

 

[solarguy]

Let's just be clear about what we are talking about here.
Charity is fine, as long as it's targeted at people that really need help.
If you just throw money around, it will not do any good in the long run and it just may add to corruption.

I would support any activity that puts urgently needed food and medicine directly into the hands of the people that need it.
I would support any activity that educates people in using Dash and any other skill that they may then use to better their own lives and their community as a whole.
I would support any funding that helps build the infrastructure that would enable people to buy/sell Dash and/or use it to buy goods and services.
I would not support giving away large sums of money/Dash to people, just so we can feel good about ourselves.

Yeah, that x 100.

The problem is making certain the charity is actually Helping. Capital "H". It can't be inefficient. It has to actually make the situation better. Look at all the (justifiable) terrible PR the Red Cross suffered because it did not use the money efficiently after the earthquake in Haiti. As noted earlier, a bunch of well meaning people in the west ruined local business ventures in Africa by injecting free clothing into the system. It actually prevented the local economy from finding a local and sustainable solution. That's NOT helping. That could RUIN Dash and make a specific situation worse in the long run. How do you guarantee that?

It can't involve crooked or dishonest people or skimming a little (or a lot) off the top. That could RUIN Dash. How do you guarantee that? It is a very tough paradox to solve, don't waste a bunch of money through inefficiency or dishonesty, but don't waste a bunch of money with supervision and verification either. See the problem?

It can't "take sides" by touching something that is politically complex/unpopular, that could RUIN Dash. Who decides what is a just and worthy cause that doesn't end up supporting a bad regime? What if injecting a bunch of money into Venezuela makes the immediate situation better, but prevents necessary political change?


So sure, let's help the people who need it, but don't just pass out money and stuff to the people who don't need it and want to scam us. Give me nitty gritty specific details, all of them. If you can't demonstrate, very specifically, how it makes structural improvements, AND causes no harm, intentional or otherwise, the deal is off. Danny from the Crypto show is a great example of this. He's getting the job done. He's actually helping people get their houses rebuilt after the earthquake damage in Mexico. I trust Danny to get it done, and done efficiently. And even something this worthy, this obvious, he ran into several issues and problems with people trying to scam the money, It's a constant and perpetual problem. If you haven't watched the interview with Danny, you should:

There are many many examples of charities that have run into serious problems, even though they meant well. I'll give you one more example. Over the years, I have donated a lot of time and money to Habitat for Humanity. It would be difficult to find a charity that is trying harder to fix a problem, right at the root. And here's what you end up with for PR:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...t-for-humanity-became-a-whole-different-story

They ended up kicking a bunch of fragile marginalized families out of their low rent homes. That just looks great don't it?

 

[demo]

Let's just be clear about what we are talking about here.
Charity is fine, as long as it's targeted at people that really need help.
If you just throw money around, it will not do any good in the long run and it just may add to corruption.

I would support any activity that puts urgently needed food and medicine directly into the hands of the people that need it.
I would support any activity that educates people in using Dash and any other skill that they may then use to better their own lives and their community as a whole.
I would support any funding that helps build the infrastructure that would enable people to buy/sell Dash and/or use it to buy goods and services.
I would not support giving away large sums of money/Dash to people, just so we can feel good about ourselves.

All the above together with this:
I would support to educate people that money is not a property, but a social convention. It is not smart for free people to beg the others in order to get their money. Free people have better create their own money, and work for their own community, instead of becoming the slaves of other communities or the slaves of the older generations.

 

[Dandy]

All the above together with this:
I would support to educate people that money is not a property, but a social convention. It is not smart for free people to beg the others in order to geting their money. Free people have better create their own money, and work for their own community, instead of becoming the slaves of other communities or the slaves of the older generations.

In socialist systems, people usually have to beg for money and then the government (which took money from the people in the first place) supposedly comes to the rescue.
In capitalist systems, if someone has something that I want, I will give him money for it and vice versa. So it's a voluntary monetary exchange system, which is actually that freedom that you like to talk so much about.

 

[demo]

In socialist systems, people usually have to beg for money and then the government (which took money from the people in the first place) supposedly comes to the rescue.
In capitalist systems, if someone has something that I want, I will give him money for it and vice versa. So it's a voluntary monetary exchange system, which is actually that freedom that you like to talk so much about.

Yes.
And in Direct Democracy systems, people are free to define (as a community) what money is. No kings or priests or governments or presidents or markets or militants or rich people or old people are allowed to impose to all the rest people what the money object should be.

 

[Dandy]

As a liberal, I would certainly agree with that.
But the market is probably one thing that could actually decide what is used as money. The market is not a separate entity, it's composed of all the people that are a part of it.

 

[yocko]

Let's just be clear about what we are talking about here.
Charity is fine, as long as it's targeted at people that really need help.
If you just throw money around, it will not do any good in the long run and it just may add to corruption.

I would support any activity that puts urgently needed food and medicine directly into the hands of the people that need it.
I would support any activity that educates people in using Dash and any other skill that they may then use to better their own lives and their community as a whole.
I would support any funding that helps build the infrastructure that would enable people to buy/sell Dash and/or use it to buy goods and services.
I would not support giving away large sums of money/Dash to people, just so we can feel good about ourselves.

Is it really to just feel good about ourselves or is it to get DASH circulating in a place where fiat is truly broken? Food is not the issue in Venezuela, the issue is the money they have to spend. In this unique situation working a way to get them a new better money that is out of the control of their government would be ideal. Of course, this does not just mean giving away money willy-nilly, structure will need to be in place and education on using it is needed.
Each situation of charity is different, in this instance it is their actual money that is the problem.

 

[yocko]

Yeah, that x 100.

The problem is making certain the charity is actually Helping. Capital "H". It can't be inefficient. It has to actually make the situation better. Look at all the (justifiable) terrible PR the Red Cross suffered because it did not use the money efficiently after the earthquake in Haiti. As noted earlier, a bunch of well meaning people in the west ruined local business ventures in Africa by injecting free clothing into the system. It actually prevented the local economy from finding a local and sustainable solution. That's NOT helping. That could RUIN Dash and make a specific situation worse in the long run. How do you guarantee that?

It can't involve crooked or dishonest people or skimming a little (or a lot) off the top. That could RUIN Dash. How do you guarantee that? It is a very tough paradox to solve, don't waste a bunch of money through inefficiency or dishonesty, but don't waste a bunch of money with supervision and verification either. See the problem?

It can't "take sides" by touching something that is politically complex/unpopular, that could RUIN Dash. Who decides what is a just and worthy cause that doesn't end up supporting a bad regime? What if injecting a bunch of money into Venezuela makes the immediate situation better, but prevents necessary political change?


So sure, let's help the people who need it, but don't just pass out money and stuff to the people who don't need it and want to scam us. Give me nitty gritty specific details, all of them. If you can't demonstrate, very specifically, how it makes structural improvements, AND causes no harm, intentional or otherwise, the deal is off. Danny from the Crypto show is a great example of this. He's getting the job done. He's actually helping people get their houses rebuilt after the earthquake damage in Mexico. I trust Danny to get it done, and done efficiently. And even something this worthy, this obvious, he ran into several issues and problems with people trying to scam the money, It's a constant and perpetual problem. If you haven't watched the interview with Danny, you should:

There are many many examples of charities that have run into serious problems, even though they meant well. I'll give you one more example. Over the years, I have donated a lot of time and money to Habitat for Humanity. It would be difficult to find a charity that is trying harder to fix a problem, right at the root. And here's what you end up with for PR:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...t-for-humanity-became-a-whole-different-story

They ended up kicking a bunch of fragile marginalized families out of their low rent homes. That just looks great don't it?

So in your opinion lets go around and tell everyone why trying to do a good thing is suck a bad idea and that it should be put in the too hard basket?
Come on man, instead of knocking something down lets try and build it up.

 

[Dandy]

Is it really to just feel good about ourselves or is it to get DASH circulating in a place where fiat is truly broken? Food is not the issue in Venezuela, the issue is the money they have to spend. In this unique situation working a way to get them a new better money that is out of the control of their government would be ideal. Of course, this does not just mean giving away money willy-nilly, structure will need to be in place and education on using it is needed.
Each situation of charity is different, in this instance it is their actual money that is the problem.

You are missing the point.
The main reason why Venezuelan money isn't worth the paper it's printed on is because it's given away when not enough new value is being created to cover for it.
Giving away money is always a bad idea.

I could support giving away something like 10$ worth of Dash at most while helping someone to install and learn how to use Dash mobile wallet. But no more.
Also, there must be something in place that people can actually buy for that Dash, or they won't get the value of it.

 

[yocko]

You are missing the point.
The main reason why Venezuelan money isn't worth the paper it's printed on is because it's given away when not enough new value is being created to cover for it.
Giving away money is always a bad idea.

I could support giving away something like 10$ worth of Dash at most while helping someone to install and learn how to use Dash mobile wallet. But no more.
Also, there must be something in place that people can actually buy for that Dash, or they won't get the value of it.

No im not missing the point I think you are. They are in this situation because their government keeps printing money so the people are losing massively per day, also the have restrictions on how much cash they can remove from their banks trapping them.
Their core problem is the government issued fiat and their restrictions on getting out of it, something they desperately want to do.
The people are get to getting by trading between each other in their little business using VEF and black market dollars so why do we need go go and set them up new business?
I'm not missing the point at all, money is their issue and we are the solution to their broken money.

 

[Dandy]

The issue is their economy which is extremely inefficient and the fact that their country is broke.
The government then prints money so they can pay the salaries and other things (and they have almost no private sector, so everyone is dependant on those payouts) and that inflates the prices because there is too much currency in circulation.

Ok, so how would you organize that donation of yours?
How many would you donate and to whom exactly?

 

[solarguy]

So in your opinion lets go around and tell everyone why trying to do a good thing is suck a bad idea and that it should be put in the too hard basket?
Come on man, instead of knocking something down lets try and build it up.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said, "So sure, let's help the people who need it, ... Give me nitty gritty specific details,"

Give me a specific plan, we'll work on it and perfect it and I'll support it. No plan, no support.

 

[solarguy]

“They are in this situation because their government keeps printing money so the people are losing massively per day, also the have restrictions on how much cash they can remove from their banks trapping them. “

Yes.

“Their core problem is the government issued fiat and their restrictions on getting out of it, something they desperately want to do. “

Yes.

“The people are get to getting by trading between each other in their little business using VEF and black market dollars so why do we need go go and set them up new business?
I'm not missing the point at all, money is their issue and we are the solution to their broken money. “

Again yes, but how exactly. That’s the 64 million dollar question. Nobody disagrees with your assessment of the problem.


Addendum: OK, you have tagged me for trolling when I agreed with your assessment of the situation and asked not once, but twice for a specific plan to help people in Venezuela so that we could optimize the plan, and then I would support the plan. If you think it was not a serious offer, you are mistaken.

 

[Santos Bermúdez Ruiz]

As a Venezuelan, I actually dont believe giving away money is gonna bring any relieve in the present or for future generations, the focus of the investment on our country should be on marketing, assistance and mainly education on how to adopt currency as way to have better life quality.