vazaki3
Well-known member
Thanks! I will investigate all of them, and try to connect to crowdnode and Dashdirect by using them.
DashDirect Virtual Visa/MC Proposal Updates
- Thread starter craymarshallg
- Start date
We have multiple options for login 2FA, including email OTP, SMS OTP, JWT, etc. It will be up to DCG which authentication and 2FA they want to implement with the Ionia integration into the Dash Mobile Wallet.
I'm going to get on my soapbox for a moment. I'm intimately familiar with the KYC laws and how KYC is done. We do KYC in many of our products and I've built a very robust KYC platform at Ionia. We do not use this for DashDirect and we do not perform any KYC whatsoever for DashDirect.
Please note that while you are calling it "KYC", gathering a phone number and sending a code to it is not KYC. In fact, collecting all of your personal data wouldn't even be KYC. I think the crypto community largely misunderstands what KYC actually is. I'll take a moment to explain what KYC is and why gathering a phone number is not KYC.
KYC is verifying the identity of the user. Gathering all of the identifying information, then verifying it against other sources to confirm that the user is who they said they are...that is KYC. We don't do any KYC in DashDirect. Whether we collect an email address and/or phone number, we do not verify identity of users. It is impossible to perform KYC with email and phone number alone, even if we wanted to.
KYC is comprised of 2 steps and an escalation path for uncertain results:
Collecting information of the person
Verifying information of the person
Gathering a phone number is very obviously not KYC. I think what you are meaning is that you don't want to provide any PII, possibly because of the fear that another party, such as a governmental agency, could try to figure out who made specific transactions based on correlating the purchases and the phone number.
That is probably possible in an edge case, though difficult and unlikely and would require our cooperation and the cooperation of the cellular carrier.
Use a non-fixed VOIP and that's impossible. Simple solution. Many of our users in DashDirect use Non-fixed VOIP numbers. We automatically block any user with Non-Fixed VOIP in CrayPay, because it is impossible to use that as part of a KYC submission successfully. We allow non-fixed VOIP numbers in DashDirect as well as anonymous and disposable email addresses. These tools exist and are heavily used by privacy advocates such as myself.
Just as an aside, you have to go to great lengths to prevent your mobile number being available to anyone. You almost certainly have 1 or more apps on your phone that have gathered your phone number. I suspect they are not all run by privacy advocates and they almost certainly don't go to the lengths we do to anonymize user records. Just FYI.
OK /rant. Thanks for listening or perhaps just skipping to the end.
I'm going to get on my soapbox for a moment. I'm intimately familiar with the KYC laws and how KYC is done. We do KYC in many of our products and I've built a very robust KYC platform at Ionia. We do not use this for DashDirect and we do not perform any KYC whatsoever for DashDirect.
Please note that while you are calling it "KYC", gathering a phone number and sending a code to it is not KYC. In fact, collecting all of your personal data wouldn't even be KYC. I think the crypto community largely misunderstands what KYC actually is. I'll take a moment to explain what KYC is and why gathering a phone number is not KYC.
KYC is verifying the identity of the user. Gathering all of the identifying information, then verifying it against other sources to confirm that the user is who they said they are...that is KYC. We don't do any KYC in DashDirect. Whether we collect an email address and/or phone number, we do not verify identity of users. It is impossible to perform KYC with email and phone number alone, even if we wanted to.
KYC is comprised of 2 steps and an escalation path for uncertain results:
Collecting information of the person
- Full Legal Name AND
- Date of birth AND
- Residential address (no P.O. Box*) AND
- Phone Number AND
- SSN** (if U.S. Person), Passport Number (if Foreign Person)
Verifying information of the person
- Submit all of the person's information to verification sources/vendors
- Act on the KYC result, including escalation for Identity Document Verification (using selfies and Government ID based identity verification), if the result is not conclusive.
Gathering a phone number is very obviously not KYC. I think what you are meaning is that you don't want to provide any PII, possibly because of the fear that another party, such as a governmental agency, could try to figure out who made specific transactions based on correlating the purchases and the phone number.
That is probably possible in an edge case, though difficult and unlikely and would require our cooperation and the cooperation of the cellular carrier.
Use a non-fixed VOIP and that's impossible. Simple solution. Many of our users in DashDirect use Non-fixed VOIP numbers. We automatically block any user with Non-Fixed VOIP in CrayPay, because it is impossible to use that as part of a KYC submission successfully. We allow non-fixed VOIP numbers in DashDirect as well as anonymous and disposable email addresses. These tools exist and are heavily used by privacy advocates such as myself.
Just as an aside, you have to go to great lengths to prevent your mobile number being available to anyone. You almost certainly have 1 or more apps on your phone that have gathered your phone number. I suspect they are not all run by privacy advocates and they almost certainly don't go to the lengths we do to anonymize user records. Just FYI.
OK /rant. Thanks for listening or perhaps just skipping to the end.
Yes, I do appreciate your working knowledge and explanation. You gave a technical definition and I agree, though I think the term "soft KYC" is more meaningful. Just because someone is not collecting the information and verifying it, they could be putting in a place an unnecessary process (or rarely used process) that creates a log outside of their system. How many services require both an email address and a phone number, yet never actually use the phone number? - quite a few.
And I agree, today we must go to great lengths to protect PII. Once upon a time it was never like this and the depths of big data is unlimited. Personally, I don't install random apps and I never use any of the big services directly, including google. I am thankful for GrapheneOS and other open source software that helps to protect privacy. Or should I say, protect consent.
And I agree, today we must go to great lengths to protect PII. Once upon a time it was never like this and the depths of big data is unlimited. Personally, I don't install random apps and I never use any of the big services directly, including google. I am thankful for GrapheneOS and other open source software that helps to protect privacy. Or should I say, protect consent.
2022 has been a turbulent year for crypto. Banks are understandably on high alert and treading carefully as they enter into new arrangements with companies connected to crypto.
As you know, Ionia has secured relationships with Visa and card issuance providers for our Ionia Rewards suite of prepaid cards, which we are excited to get into the hands of our users. We have been made aware in the aftermath of the FTX and BlockFi bankruptcies, which have come on the heels of other significant challenges this year, that the card issuing banks are taking a more cautious approach to crypto-related program approvals. This means the bank approval process will be more in-depth and is expected to take longer than originally anticipated.
We are awaiting further instruction from the issuing bank partners, but wanted to let you know as soon as possible that the expected launch of crypto-associated card programs now realistically looks to be sometime in Q2 2023.
With that said, we are shifting our efforts to launch the Visa Rewards Global card as the initial card program, as the bank approval process is expected to be faster for that specific program. We do not yet have a timeline for this program, but we do expect to hear back from the bank within a few weeks with regard to our bank approval submissions. As a reminder, here is a brief overview of each of the 3 card programs from Ionia: https://ionia.docsend.com/view/kvuftnzfatn8jtdb. The Visa Rewards Global will be our first focus, but we will continue to work to launch the Visa Rewards Plus program for DashDirect as well.
We have done initial testing with some success on the Visa Rewards Global program, and we are excited that the cards are working not only in the US, but also in other regions. We will test in several more regions here shortly and report back a summary analysis of the results reported to us by community members in various regions.
We will continue to share new information with you as we receive additional details and status updates on the Visa Rewards Global program as well as the other card programs.
As you know, Ionia has secured relationships with Visa and card issuance providers for our Ionia Rewards suite of prepaid cards, which we are excited to get into the hands of our users. We have been made aware in the aftermath of the FTX and BlockFi bankruptcies, which have come on the heels of other significant challenges this year, that the card issuing banks are taking a more cautious approach to crypto-related program approvals. This means the bank approval process will be more in-depth and is expected to take longer than originally anticipated.
We are awaiting further instruction from the issuing bank partners, but wanted to let you know as soon as possible that the expected launch of crypto-associated card programs now realistically looks to be sometime in Q2 2023.
With that said, we are shifting our efforts to launch the Visa Rewards Global card as the initial card program, as the bank approval process is expected to be faster for that specific program. We do not yet have a timeline for this program, but we do expect to hear back from the bank within a few weeks with regard to our bank approval submissions. As a reminder, here is a brief overview of each of the 3 card programs from Ionia: https://ionia.docsend.com/view/kvuftnzfatn8jtdb. The Visa Rewards Global will be our first focus, but we will continue to work to launch the Visa Rewards Plus program for DashDirect as well.
We have done initial testing with some success on the Visa Rewards Global program, and we are excited that the cards are working not only in the US, but also in other regions. We will test in several more regions here shortly and report back a summary analysis of the results reported to us by community members in various regions.
We will continue to share new information with you as we receive additional details and status updates on the Visa Rewards Global program as well as the other card programs.
This dependence on Visa is killing us. Is this on course for a repeat of 2018's WaveCrest scandal?
Given that we are contracted with Visa for our card programs, it is very unlikely that Visa cut ties with us. They are actually compensating us to use their network. We have a 3 year agreement, and just need the banks to approve the programs, which I do believe will happen, but will take longer given the additional due diligence and caution on their part.
trust_thyself
Active member
Would you please share an updated link for the apk download?
I was unable to access anything at the link shared last May (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashdirect-virtual-visa-mc-proposal-updates.52044/post-230955).
Thanks! And hope you're well.
I was unable to access anything at the link shared last May (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashdirect-virtual-visa-mc-proposal-updates.52044/post-230955).
Thanks! And hope you're well.
Here is where I shared a link with multiple versions:
trust_thyself
Active member
Thanks for your response and that more-updated link. However, I'm still not able to download the apk. Might I be doing something wrong that you can identify? I tried the link on three different browsers and each displayed the text shown in this screenshot:
It looks like you are clicking on a CodeMagic link. What I reposted was intended to be the Docsend link: https://ionia.docsend.com/view/s/r8m5h36anawfj94b
CodeMagic only stores builds for 90 days, but the Docsend link is set to not expire.
trust_thyself
Active member
I appreciate your continued follow-up but I'm still having trouble.
When I click the link you shared (https://ionia.docsend.com/view/s/r8m5h36anawfj94b) it loads the
DashDirect APK Download Library. I next click the "Production Version" folder (https://ionia.docsend.com/view/s/r8m5h36anawfj94b#) then select the "DashDirect 1.1.0-941" folder, and that's when it displays the CodeMagic link. I've also tried the "Beta Versions" folder and get the same result.
Any updates? Last update was 11 Dec 2022. Thanks.
DeafEyeJedi
New member
Any updates on beta testing for Dash Direct? The flight test that I had from last year has stopped worked as expected.
don't think he visits the forum often
Does this affect DashDirect?
It is with a heavy heart that I share this update today.
Due to the uncertainty under United States law as to the use of cryptocurrency for commercial and personal purposes and the recent dramatically increased pressures brought on by United States regulators and law enforcement, we at Ionia, Inc. (“Ionia”) have decided to exit the cryptocurrency space as of July 15, 2023.
We hope that you appreciate the fact that we have successfully followed all of the known rules regarding the use of cryptocurrency heretofore and are confident that the products we offered were fully compliant. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the current regulatory environment includes the placing of tactical pressure even on those following the rules, like us, and we simply do not have the resources to withstand this kind of onslaught.
This community has been tremendously supportive and it has been a true pleasure to work with you over the last 2 years. We are hopeful for a future in which we can all work together again towards monetary freedom and true ownership of our assets. This will require a major change to the regulatory and enforcement environment in the US. We will continue to hope for this future.
Until that time, we will support Dash Core Group to find and implement solutions to replace what DashDirect has been offering to the community. DCG is aware that we are Terminating our agreement and they are actively working to find the best solutions in the market.
We will disable purchasing of new gift cards in DashDirect on July 15th. If you have unused gift cards in DashDirect, you will be able to access them for several weeks. We encourage you to email them to yourself using the "Send as a Gift" option or to screenshot their details before July 31st.
If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to [email protected]. Thank you for your understanding, your partnership and your support over the last 2 years. We appreciate you and look forward to a better future in which we can work together again.
Due to the uncertainty under United States law as to the use of cryptocurrency for commercial and personal purposes and the recent dramatically increased pressures brought on by United States regulators and law enforcement, we at Ionia, Inc. (“Ionia”) have decided to exit the cryptocurrency space as of July 15, 2023.
We hope that you appreciate the fact that we have successfully followed all of the known rules regarding the use of cryptocurrency heretofore and are confident that the products we offered were fully compliant. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the current regulatory environment includes the placing of tactical pressure even on those following the rules, like us, and we simply do not have the resources to withstand this kind of onslaught.
This community has been tremendously supportive and it has been a true pleasure to work with you over the last 2 years. We are hopeful for a future in which we can all work together again towards monetary freedom and true ownership of our assets. This will require a major change to the regulatory and enforcement environment in the US. We will continue to hope for this future.
Until that time, we will support Dash Core Group to find and implement solutions to replace what DashDirect has been offering to the community. DCG is aware that we are Terminating our agreement and they are actively working to find the best solutions in the market.
We will disable purchasing of new gift cards in DashDirect on July 15th. If you have unused gift cards in DashDirect, you will be able to access them for several weeks. We encourage you to email them to yourself using the "Send as a Gift" option or to screenshot their details before July 31st.
If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to [email protected]. Thank you for your understanding, your partnership and your support over the last 2 years. We appreciate you and look forward to a better future in which we can work together again.
It was worth a shot, but in the absence of regulatory clarity in the US, I can't say that I blame you. Thanks for all you tried to do for Dash and the greater cryptoverse.
trust_thyself
Active member
Thanks for your candid update and for your efforts on this front. And all the best going forward.
As with all regulations -- or in this case, with regulatory uncertainty -- there are bound to be unintended consequences. Hopefully, what we see emerge are options to facilitate voluntary interactions that cannot be targeted by regime actors.
This is the Dash Curse, it has occurred many times and will happen again, eventually it will include the Maya Protocol.
I would of said, come to the dash treasury for a large grant to defend yourselves but alas DCG are not concerned with price and the benefits it would be bring to the treasury. DCG only care to suck the lifeblood out of the treasury for their own needs. If they had cared about the price, the treasury as a whole would of been big enough to help others such as yourselves.
But also, I do say, you (Ionia) have the option of closing down operations and starting over outside of the US. The rest of the world market is surely bigger than the US and, more so, there are countries where your services are more aligned and appreciated than existing developed markets.
Here in the Philippines, not everyone has a bank account or cares for one. In terms of user adoption, gcash would be your biggest competitor. We can use bitrefill for a bunch of high profile brands but it's far from complete. Unfortunately, no one here has heard of dash and the largest user accessible crypto exchange (Coins.ph) has a bunch of shitcoins and still no dash. Even then, coins.ph has KYC rules that are more bothersome than a bank account.
I am hesitant to recommend the european markets. Some may say it's regulatory approach is way ahead of the US but my own take on it is, it's still very much Orwellian ideas and politics. Western countries are quick to point to corruption here in the Philippines - which is true - yet imo it is closer to a freer society than any american dream I've heard of. A very young and open minded country. Of course, many other options here in asia and, no doubt, south america.
I also want to say, no public updates since December 2022 yet you was in contact with DCG throughout, about such difficulties. You painted one picture to MNOs and another to DCG. Why? AFAIK Ionia shares are owned by the network, not DCG. It's actions like this that fuel speculation that dash is a security e.g. financial activity internally discussed and coordinated from a legal entity operated within the US.
I would of said, come to the dash treasury for a large grant to defend yourselves but alas DCG are not concerned with price and the benefits it would be bring to the treasury. DCG only care to suck the lifeblood out of the treasury for their own needs. If they had cared about the price, the treasury as a whole would of been big enough to help others such as yourselves.
But also, I do say, you (Ionia) have the option of closing down operations and starting over outside of the US. The rest of the world market is surely bigger than the US and, more so, there are countries where your services are more aligned and appreciated than existing developed markets.
Here in the Philippines, not everyone has a bank account or cares for one. In terms of user adoption, gcash would be your biggest competitor. We can use bitrefill for a bunch of high profile brands but it's far from complete. Unfortunately, no one here has heard of dash and the largest user accessible crypto exchange (Coins.ph) has a bunch of shitcoins and still no dash. Even then, coins.ph has KYC rules that are more bothersome than a bank account.
I am hesitant to recommend the european markets. Some may say it's regulatory approach is way ahead of the US but my own take on it is, it's still very much Orwellian ideas and politics. Western countries are quick to point to corruption here in the Philippines - which is true - yet imo it is closer to a freer society than any american dream I've heard of. A very young and open minded country. Of course, many other options here in asia and, no doubt, south america.
I also want to say, no public updates since December 2022 yet you was in contact with DCG throughout, about such difficulties. You painted one picture to MNOs and another to DCG. Why? AFAIK Ionia shares are owned by the network, not DCG. It's actions like this that fuel speculation that dash is a security e.g. financial activity internally discussed and coordinated from a legal entity operated within the US.
We notified DCG 48 hrs before I posted this update. DCG is our contracted partner, and we needed to make sure to notify them before anything was announced publicly. We had the same conversation with all of our crypto clients/partners this past week and announced publicly this weekend. There was nothing but positive movement until a few weeks ago (the day the US government attacked crypto in a wide scale, coordinated effort). The decision was only made revently, after much deliberation and advice from counsel.
We definitely could not have foreseen the newest actions and regulations. We had the right banks under contract as well as the card networks. Absent such an attack, we would have launched the card programs and continued to serve Dash and our other clients. We do not take this decision lightly. We are losing significant revenue, significant clients (Dash, Edge, Cake, Kinesis, and CoinFlip) and significant opportunities that were in the works (Coinbase, and others).
More importantly, this decision and outcome are at odds with my personal, philosophic and politic beliefs in freedom, privacy, and ownership. I am deeply saddened by this. We definitely gave all alternatives serious consideration, including your suggestion above. None were viable and none would solve the fundamental issues. I hope that you know we fought and we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal expenses alone to fight this battle. We ultimately had to succumb. As owners in our business, the Dash community still stands to benefit greatly from our future success and we hope to also be able to work together again more directly.
Thank you for the support and understanding.
We definitely could not have foreseen the newest actions and regulations. We had the right banks under contract as well as the card networks. Absent such an attack, we would have launched the card programs and continued to serve Dash and our other clients. We do not take this decision lightly. We are losing significant revenue, significant clients (Dash, Edge, Cake, Kinesis, and CoinFlip) and significant opportunities that were in the works (Coinbase, and others).
More importantly, this decision and outcome are at odds with my personal, philosophic and politic beliefs in freedom, privacy, and ownership. I am deeply saddened by this. We definitely gave all alternatives serious consideration, including your suggestion above. None were viable and none would solve the fundamental issues. I hope that you know we fought and we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal expenses alone to fight this battle. We ultimately had to succumb. As owners in our business, the Dash community still stands to benefit greatly from our future success and we hope to also be able to work together again more directly.
Thank you for the support and understanding.