totally
but if we approach this that obvious we might scare them off
as they do not know nothing about us (probably)
Budget Proposal - «Donation to Edward Snowden»
- Thread starter alex-ru
- Start date
totally
but if we approach this that obvious we might scare them off
as they do not know nothing about us (probably)
OK, I hope not to make everyone mad... It looks like there are a bunch of Snowden lovers here!
I disagree with "doing good in the world" with the budget at this point:
I disagree with "doing good in the world" with the budget at this point:
- First, is that a core value of dash? That sounds more like Dogecoin to me. Plus, there are so many good things in the world to do. Really? Giving Snowden money is that our highest priority? What about Moli's proposal and we voted it down. We decided not to pay people who actually HELPED Dash improve by working on testnet. I'm not saying the terms were the best for that proposal, but no one denies that the people who test the testnet do a huge service and put a lot of time into it. I am asking (and trying to open up discussion) are we really going to start "doing good in the world" with our budget?
- Second, if we decide that we will start doing "feel good" things... what about a million other things that people care about? Which ones will we pick? I think our voting system is ideal for this feature, but we really need a bunch of charity items so that MN's can vote which one. I saw someone was mentioning an idea for this... can't wait to see that.
- Third, I completely agree with everyone saying that this has a publicity angle. So, if we were doing this for the BENEFIT of dash then I think it is a valid idea (my opinion). Then, we are voting on whether we think it is the best use of the budget. Maybe there are better ideas for publicity or maybe Snowden is best. I don't think the emotional side (for whichever charity) should be the top factor (again my opinion).
I want to apologize for my comment on people who wouldn't support Snowden, I kinda knew I shouldn't write that, LOL (I said unthinking reactionaries) There are good reasons for being conflicted about what he did, and there may have been other ways of doing it, though I do think he had good reason to think it wouldn't have worked any other way. Anyway, no offense, David, my husband is also conflicted, and I actually do understand. Sometimes I'm brashly opinionated. However, your point is exactly my point above yours 
paperThin, would you be willing to work with people and organizations that you don't fully support on things that you both fully support? Like perhaps, with Snowden on privacy? Or wikileaks on how to successfully fund outside projects protected against governments? Stuff like that? Not necessarily exactly what they are doing, but in common ground areas? I think that could work. Here is one from the Snowden Laura Glen ask me anything reddit of earlier this year:
There is and it is called the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 updated in 2012. Unfortunately, it does not apply to the intelligence community. More unfortunately, the protections conferred by the act are determined in a case by case basis by the United States Merit Systems Protection Board which pretty much always sides with the Government and not with the whistleblower.
There certainly should be some way to oversee what the Government is doing, and if people can't step up and blow the whistle, even in a way that doesn't put information at risk, then we have tyranny.
Note, I'm just pulling possible common ground ideas out of my butt, so I haven't thought through whether or not those particular subjects would indeed be common ground, they're only examples
The reason doing such things is for exposure, to benefit Dash, there is no denying that. Edward Snowden does what he does, to help clear his name and forward his cause as well.
paperThin, would you be willing to work with people and organizations that you don't fully support on things that you both fully support? Like perhaps, with Snowden on privacy? Or wikileaks on how to successfully fund outside projects protected against governments? Stuff like that? Not necessarily exactly what they are doing, but in common ground areas? I think that could work. Here is one from the Snowden Laura Glen ask me anything reddit of earlier this year:
There is and it is called the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 updated in 2012. Unfortunately, it does not apply to the intelligence community. More unfortunately, the protections conferred by the act are determined in a case by case basis by the United States Merit Systems Protection Board which pretty much always sides with the Government and not with the whistleblower.
There certainly should be some way to oversee what the Government is doing, and if people can't step up and blow the whistle, even in a way that doesn't put information at risk, then we have tyranny.
Note, I'm just pulling possible common ground ideas out of my butt, so I haven't thought through whether or not those particular subjects would indeed be common ground, they're only examples
The reason doing such things is for exposure, to benefit Dash, there is no denying that. Edward Snowden does what he does, to help clear his name and forward his cause as well.
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Tante, I think it would be impossible to get all the MN's to agree on even the simplest objective. That's why the voting is so great. We can disagree but the majority wins. If a MN owner can't live with the decision, they can just sell off their Dash or whatever they want!
I never thought about it until you asked, but yes there would be limits that would make it very difficult for me to stay involved with this community. For example, let's say the majority decided to donate to a politician that was Pro-cryptocoin. If I disagreed with this candidate on other policies and did not want that person as a leader... I could live with that. However, if we started arming rebel forces to take over Canada then I would probably want to disassociate myself from the group. Capiche?
So in short.. yes and no Thanks for your response!
Also, I do believe that crypto is bigger than government(s). I believe we have a major game-changer on our hands if governments fail to suppress it!
I never thought about it until you asked, but yes there would be limits that would make it very difficult for me to stay involved with this community. For example, let's say the majority decided to donate to a politician that was Pro-cryptocoin. If I disagreed with this candidate on other policies and did not want that person as a leader... I could live with that. However, if we started arming rebel forces to take over Canada
then I would probably want to disassociate myself from the group. Capiche?So in short.. yes and no
Thanks for your response!Also, I do believe that crypto is bigger than government(s). I believe we have a major game-changer on our hands if governments fail to suppress it!
I have to chime in. When i see smart people, mostnly on the side of justice and freedom go and mindlesly regurgitate unsubstantial governmental propaganda I get mildly upset. First my favorite Tante:
Aside spewing vile propaganda, there is no claim by official sources that WikiLeaks has caused the death of a single individual anywhere in the world. That is a fact.
"Putting everything out in the open" is a nonsense; Wikileaks uses a "harm minimization process," by which they redact the material precisely in order to protect the lives. At the other hand, the government had indeed killed millions of innocent civilians all over the world and put a whistle-blower (Manning), exposing our atrocities, to jail while the murderers are free.
This is a good one, "treason." Let us first examine what constitutes a treason. 18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."
Snowden is waging a war against the US? He adheres to their enemies? Giving them comfort within the United States? (while abroad, at that) ALL he has done was to give the American people an information about egregious crimes against constitutional guaranteed rights. Allow me to use only one example, Amendment IV (of the U.S. Constitution) states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."
What "they" do, snooping and searching ALL the world's PRIVATE communications, placing trojans into our properties etc., renders US, the people, ALL of us, as the enemies and for sure does not render Snowden a traitor who committed a treason, no less. So, kindly let us think with our own heads and not regurgitate government propagandist garbage, please.
And if anyone wants to nitpick and go on how Wikileaks, Snowden, Manning et.al. have committed some sort of crime or broke the law, kindly go back to the aftermath of the World War II and remember the words of the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal (1950): "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."
If any of you thinks what our magnanimous governments, accusing their conscious and I'd dare to say patriotic citizens of "treason" (and putting them in jails) are doing is not a "crime against peace and humanity," well then...
I shall say no more...
Aside spewing vile propaganda, there is no claim by official sources that WikiLeaks has caused the death of a single individual anywhere in the world. That is a fact.
"Putting everything out in the open" is a nonsense; Wikileaks uses a "harm minimization process," by which they redact the material precisely in order to protect the lives. At the other hand, the government had indeed killed millions of innocent civilians all over the world and put a whistle-blower (Manning), exposing our atrocities, to jail while the murderers are free.
This is a good one, "treason." Let us first examine what constitutes a treason. 18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason..."
Snowden is waging a war against the US? He adheres to their enemies? Giving them comfort within the United States? (while abroad, at that) ALL he has done was to give the American people an information about egregious crimes against constitutional guaranteed rights. Allow me to use only one example, Amendment IV (of the U.S. Constitution) states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."
What "they" do, snooping and searching ALL the world's PRIVATE communications, placing trojans into our properties etc., renders US, the people, ALL of us, as the enemies and for sure does not render Snowden a traitor who committed a treason, no less. So, kindly let us think with our own heads and not regurgitate government propagandist garbage, please.
And if anyone wants to nitpick and go on how Wikileaks, Snowden, Manning et.al. have committed some sort of crime or broke the law, kindly go back to the aftermath of the World War II and remember the words of the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal (1950): "Individuals have international duties which transcend the national obligations of obedience ... Therefore [individual citizens] have the duty to violate domestic laws to prevent crimes against peace and humanity from occurring."
If any of you thinks what our magnanimous governments, accusing their conscious and I'd dare to say patriotic citizens of "treason" (and putting them in jails) are doing is not a "crime against peace and humanity," well then...
I shall say no more...
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If we are aiming for mainstream adoption, this is the type of extremist* viewpoint that we need to keep from projecting, at least when using "official" (budget system) money. Individuals are of course free to donate to whatever causes they wish.
*I don't mean this in an unkind way at all. But your position, while it undoubtedly has merit, falls far outside the spectrum of "mainstream." While there is definitely value in outlying opinions, I'm not sure we (as a project) should ally ourselves with them.
While I said I shall say no more I ought to comment :smile:
The only "extremists" I am aware of are the fascists ruling our country into killing, pillaging and maiming all over the world, prosecuting whistle-blowers, threatening journalistic and small defenseless countries alike (even invoking a threat, like our magnanimous leaders are doing, daily, with Iran constitutes a grave violation of the Geneva Convention, peace and basic human sanity) while, at the same time are involved in the creating, maintaining and vastly expanding the worst dystopian nightmare of pan-spying and violating the privacy of every human being on Earth ever.
But I get your meaning: to tell the truth and to, for the argument sake, invoke the highest moral court our civilization has ever created - an American lead Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal - and to quote the best freedom promoting document ever made by any country, the U.S. Constitution is an extremist view.
How deeply deranged this world has became is beyond me. But I agree: if we want to go mainstream we should go full fascist, Facebook and Lady Gaga.
The only "extremists" I am aware of are the fascists ruling our country into killing, pillaging and maiming all over the world, prosecuting whistle-blowers, threatening journalistic and small defenseless countries alike (even invoking a threat, like our magnanimous leaders are doing, daily, with Iran constitutes a grave violation of the Geneva Convention, peace and basic human sanity) while, at the same time are involved in the creating, maintaining and vastly expanding the worst dystopian nightmare of pan-spying and violating the privacy of every human being on Earth ever.
But I get your meaning: to tell the truth and to, for the argument sake, invoke the highest moral court our civilization has ever created - an American lead Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal - and to quote the best freedom promoting document ever made by any country, the U.S. Constitution is an extremist view.
How deeply deranged this world has became is beyond me. But I agree: if we want to go mainstream we should go full fascist, Facebook and Lady Gaga.
camosoul
Well-known member
It would have made no difference. Some people are so dedicated to their agendas, they don't care about reality. I.e. anti-gunners. Just an example... Some people are blind zealots detached from reality with no intention of becoming attached.
And moreso, sometimes there is no good option, only the least terrible option. I believe that is what Snowden did. Again, gun reference, self-defense... The least bad option still sucks. Those trained to be weak sheeple haven't the stomach to handle reality and become victims. This is often the very objective of truly insidious people. They create a harmful circumstance, from which they can profit, which has no good solution. That way, anyone who disrupts it is "the bad guy." That is, essentially, the definition of government. Imagine if all anti-gun laws were repealed tomorrow? The carnage of a bunch of people trained to be irresponsible dumbasses after all this time, all buying $50 machine guns on the same day... Eventually it would even out, but in the meantime... Snowden faced essentially the same problem. No matter what he did, it would be considered "wrong" and cause a serious shitstorm. But, eventually, the message got through and many people grew up and stopped trusting their evil guv. Still not enough, but some...
It is impossible to pick up a turd from the clean end. Snowden manned-up and did what had to be done. Zealots will always be pissed, still others are impossible to please. The clueless form opinions without any basis in fact. If you make your choices based on the opinions of the clueless, well... You won't be accomplishing much with your life, just like the clueless people...
Freedom is lost in small pieces over time, but it is only reclaimed in big, ugly, bloody chunks. That's just the nature of it. The sheeple don't have the stomach for it. It's uncivilized. I say; slavery is even less so. Not only because of the nature of those who take that freedom from us, but by the nature of those robbed of their freedoms also being robbed of the knowledge of responsibly handling their freedoms once restored. Freedoms carry Responsibilities, when the freedom is lost, then so is the education for handling it. This is the true danger. It must be learned again. But in the very midst of that chaos, as freedom draws it's first breath, those failing to be responsible are already calling out for it's elimination because they can't be asked to step up and take responsibility. The slippery slope begins even in that first moment of revolution...
Regulate Bitcoin, they said. Mt. Gox, they said... Stop expecting to be taken care of, I say. Pull you head out of your ass, I say. Asking for the chains to be put back on after only experiencing their removal for a moment... OF course there will be fuckups. No one has ever know the freedom of Separation of Money and State. Don't cray out for imprisonment, again, just because it is familiar. Learn from the mistake.
I prefer the Sun in my eyes and occasional sunburn, to having it snuffed out.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
Snowden may not be considered a Nationalist Patriot, but as Einstein often pontificated, that's a good thing. He's a patriot to citizens of the human race, no matter which piece of dirt they stand on. No government, or sycophantic toady bootlicker, will ever like that. They seek division, not unity.
Another example of how easy it is to buy off freedom... Since the NFA was enacted in 1934, a wide variety of cheap, simple guns and safety equipment have been demonized, and placed out of reach of normal people by bureaucratic hurdles and absurd taxes. In 1986, it was expanded to an absolute ban on the civilian manufacture of Machine Guns. Unless you're a well-connected millionaire bootlicker, you just plain can't get one of the few in limited supply that was made prior to 1986. They're really fucking expensive. To my understanding, there is only one Hughes Heligun in existence, and the last time it sold, it was for half a million dollars. That's just one example... Even a cheap, beat to hell pre-86 transferable M11 will cost you a minimum of $10,000. Do you think people who spent that much money on bragging rights want to lose that value by voting for the decriminalization of machine guns? Even though not a single NFA machine gun was EVER used in a crime! So, why are they illegal in the first place? What problem did banning them solve? Nothing. If no crimes were ever committed with one, then how can crime be prevented by eliminating them? It's an object... Now that the persecution has been accepted as the norm, how do you fight it? How do those who bought-in to the violation give up the huge amount of money the spent?
If you spent $500,000 on a boatload of slaves, you probably wouldn't want to lose that investment, either... Even if you know it's wrong. The persecuted adapt and integrate to the new environment, some can't live without it... Maintaining the status quo, no matter how evil, is often a matter of survival for those who are unable to function without it. For people like this, Snowden is their enemy.
If I want to get on a boat and sail the Bahamas, I can enter that country with a machine gun, and they don't even give a damn. Piracy is on the rise in the Caribbean. There are plenty of places you just plain don't want to go. Their customs agents will tell you "You're going to need it where you're going!" But where will I buy that machine gun since there's nowhere left on Earth that allows it...
I guess I need a really big boat with a machine shop on it... And a currency that has no government.
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Alas, as always, I totally agree with you Camo.
"It is impossible to pick up a turd from the clean end." Ah, poetry! LOL
And you too, Grey Ghost!
My parents were born and grew up until the age of about 12 in Nazi Germany. I was sheltered about those days until about Jr. High, when I started to learn what happened and about WWII. Since then, I swore I would never ever let it happen again if I could help it. My Mom was certain it could never happen in "magical" USA, but I never could see why not, and as more years flow away from WWII, I see us getting closer and closer to that same mentality, the worst being that the Government will take care of you. To me, that is the beginning of the end.
So, I think you could safely say that deep down inside, I'm paranoid on this subject.
"It is impossible to pick up a turd from the clean end." Ah, poetry! LOL
And you too, Grey Ghost!
My parents were born and grew up until the age of about 12 in Nazi Germany. I was sheltered about those days until about Jr. High, when I started to learn what happened and about WWII. Since then, I swore I would never ever let it happen again if I could help it. My Mom was certain it could never happen in "magical" USA, but I never could see why not, and as more years flow away from WWII, I see us getting closer and closer to that same mentality, the worst being that the Government will take care of you. To me, that is the beginning of the end.
So, I think you could safely say that deep down inside, I'm paranoid on this subject.
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And I agree with you. We have to be main stream, but I feel we can do that by partnering up, even with semi extremists, but who are high profile, on subjects we can both agree on, and that are foundational to Dash
Now on Twitter https://twitter.com/Snowden
https://twitter.com/Snowden
LOLOLOLOL
Look at this!!
https://twitter.com/Snowden/following
:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:
Look at this!!
https://twitter.com/Snowden/following
:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:
pille
Well-known member
alex-ru
Well-known member
I want to donate to his project https://freedom.press/, anonymously.
But there is no DASH-address for donations https://freedom.press/donate...
I don't think that donating to people like Snowden in non-anonymous mode (without DASH + DarkSend) is a good idea...
But there is no DASH-address for donations https://freedom.press/donate...
I don't think that donating to people like Snowden in non-anonymous mode (without DASH + DarkSend) is a good idea...
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camosoul
Well-known member
I have a 1919A4. Made in Israel, originally. It's a John Browning design, obviously. But Israel made more of them... Since owning it would be illegal in the USA, it was cut down and the Right-Hand Side Plate was removed to make it "not a gun anymore." Sad. Because this specimen has hand-engraved on the trunion in Hebrew: "never again." The history the anti-gun zealots would destroy... Speaking of... Sad so many Jews are fighting hard to make it happen again... All it takes is one generation of ignorant, spoiled brats who don't understand the value of being armed.
camosoul
Well-known member
If you only want to appeal to the stats-quo, then use dollars. The whole point of DASH is to disrupt the corrupt, no matter how popular. I believe your perspective is self-defeating, because history demonstrates it to be self-defeating every time it has been promoted. Every. Single. Time. There are few absolutes. This is one of them.
My desire to promote Dash as a payment system is not inconsistent with any of my previous statements. Just because I don't unreservedly support sending money to Edward Snowden doesn't mean that I don't want to change the world's financial systems.