[Budget Proposal] DASH on the Aquidabã Tennis Open Campaign Reimbursement

[raganius]

I am sorry for my late reply, but I was in the middle of a small trip this afternoon

Great exposure for Dash. I will vote yes.

Done.
mnbudget vote-many a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes

You got my vote!

The 61st is me !!!
Very good job raganius !

this is a great initiative and should be an example of how a man is doing something from his heart !!!

we need more people who are actually DOING stuff !

Thank you all for your considerations, and kind words. It is so exciting these voting discussions!

I will definitely vote yes.
raganius did all this from his pocket when the budgeting was still in deep field. The fruits as always come after a year or years after planting so I keep believing that what you do today will have positive impact in the future.
This is one time shoot and not big neither.
raganius you deserve to be reimbursed.
Cheers and keep the good work rolling on.

Thank you, my good friend! I know I can always count on you!

So you're saying raganius 's project is ineffective. If we go by your judging, the whole marketing team has been a failure by looking at the price right now. So much donation has gone in press releases and now the budget is set for the marketing, we don't even know what we're spending on, do we? So if we go by your judging, why should we even bother to spend money on marketing???

Why picking on another member who's trying to help us all? I do like you, alex, but this is just wrong. I've seen more internal stabbing in this community, and it has to stop. I don't see any attacks from bitcoiners or any other competitors but just the dash people and i do not understand or appreciate this. it's a shame, don't you think?

A perfect opinion as always. Thank you moli. The community needs to support and encourage us members to do our best. And only through fairness and honesty it will be achieved, because each individual will always be very sensible to the most basic notions of justice.

I understand where you are coming from, but let me share a story. I used to be one of two assistant managers at a store. The other was an older lady that lived some distance away (across town). Because she was an early riser and because she wanted to avoid rush hour traffic, she would always get to work early and get the store ready to open.

Nobody else wanted the job of arriving early and opening, but LeAnne did it every day. Nobody asked her to, she just did it. Once, she asked our boss if she could leave a few minutes early since she always comes in early. Our boss said "LeAnne, nobody asked you to come in early. You did that on your own. So no, you may not go home early."

I've always thought that was pretty lousy. If Raganius went off and did some multithousand dollar promotion expecting to get repaid, I'd feel differently. But he did something good on his own initiative, at relatively small cost, without expecting to get compensated for it. Why shouldn't he have his costs covered? If we discourage this kind of initiative, we could well miss out on some great opportunities.

I will be voting yes tonight.

Thank you, David. This is a great illustation of what I mean when I am referring to justice.

Points for consideration :

* the Aquidabã Tennis Open Campaign was publicly discussed on both the Dashtalk forum and the Bitcointalk forum at the time
* its a one-time reimbursement of a relative small amount of Dash
* it could motivate OP to do this kind of marketing again next year (through the budget proposal system at forehand i hope)
* its time we as community put in a budget proposal and back it up with our votes successfully, i can live with this being that budget proposal for next super-block

lets just stay calm and analyse each budget proposal rational and vote accordingly.

Very sensible opinion. Thank you, qwizzie.

I tend to agree with Alex. I think that we are all free to spend money to promote Dash in our home countries or within our social groups or business networks; that doesn't mean we should pay back everyone who has an initiative. Most of Dash effort should remain volunteer from my point of view.

Again, the cool thing about this is it will be settled via vote, so no need to fight .

Pablo.

Thank you for sharing your point of view. I agree that this is another awesome opportunity for us to learn more about the DASH voting system, it's fairness, and effectivity.

Well, may I remind us all that this will not have been the first reimbursement budget to be approved by the commmunity: there is already a precedent with the one already approved and paid this month of September.

(continues)

 

[raganius]

(continued)

Sorry, guys, but let me disagree...

This voting isn't about "Is raganius a good guy or not?"
I bet everybody will vote "raganius is super-cool guy, full of ideas and is very important for Dash community".
Personally I am very inspired by his enthusiasm!!!

But. If Decentralized budgeting is spending on non-effective actions - This means only one thing - "It doesn't work correct!"
The worse thing is - everybody will see it doesn't work correct and it means the whole Dash project has a big problem... with all the consequences.
And this is very dangerous precedent.

If this voting was BEFORE those action and expenses - It may look quite justified - "System vote for testing of new way of promotion and so on".

So if some action was ineffective (I hope it wasn't) - I believe it shouldn't be financed by 10% fund and discredit this System - And everybody who want to support raganius - instead of voting "yes" - may just send him a kind of donation to compensate these expenses.

IMHO.

P.S.
raganius - I do like your initiatives and hope you won't get me wrong - nothing personal!

Please, my friend, feel free to ask as many questions as you find necessary. That's the purpose of this thread.

I believe that it's something completely different, the online campaigns, compared to real life campaigns. Each one will be effective towards a completely different public.

From what I've seen, of the online campaigns, up to now, they have been directed to the so called crypto community, a public that already know and use cryptocurrencies, and now what these online campaigns aim is to bring them to DASH.

Of course, the new DASH video has come to change this reality, regarding online campaings, as it is correctly directed to what I call the "cryptovirgins". The focus, I believe, is the one most necessary for DASH today. That's my focus with this real life campaign in consideration here.

It is all about face-to-face contact. I have been able to make people aware of another solution: DASH. It's people who have never heard about anything other than "government money" and visa-like centralised services. And now these people know they can opt out of the fiat-bankers scheme.

Along with the tennis open campaign, as I have explained already, I have also been to as many merchants as there are within reach, showing them the DASH wallet in operation, clarifying their doubts. And that has been an important part of this campaign. Probably the most important part, actually. The tennis open event environment worked as the base showcase in order to justify my door to door pilgrimage. Also, the Portuguese language contents of the websites (see my signature) are there to provide the necessary substance and further information, obviously needed. Without all these concerted details (a whole package for this campaign) the whole effort would have lacked in effectiveness.

During this whole period, what I have missed most was a "firm" community support, with only a few "retweets" or "facebook shares", for example. No matter how many photos or links I've published, almost no "likes" or "shares" or "followers" were given from this community (of course, some friends here were - and still are - always so supportive, and I am sure they have done what they could to help me. It is easy to recongise them from all the resulting material produced during this campaign). From my point of view, this DASH community felt apathetic. I confess that at the beginning I have felt very disappointed, because I expected much more support here (maybe this is not much more than an annoying reaction from my part, but I confess that when I decided to start these efforts, I was expecting a similar level of participation from this community, compared to other initiatives. And as a result this perception of apathy from the DASH community weakened my enthusiasm a little).

The campaign proposition is to "bring DASH into the world of these people". It was not an expensive marketing campaign. Much to the contrary, it was an efficient, non-expensive, face-to-face effort which introduced DASH in a serious and pragmatic manner. Giving DASH a strong initial reputation from the point of view of all the people that we have had contact with.

It could have been even better, for sure, but it is living and learning. And this has been a rich source of knowledge for the DASH community.

My opinion is already known here, I believe: DASH must link its image to good initiatives, charities, freedom fighters, privacy awareness, education, SPORTS. And this is exactly the core of what I have been doing.

mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes

"I promise I will not fly away from the country!"​

 

[raganius]

I think people that make proposals need to have open minds about the kind of responses they will get from other community members. alex-ru makes some very good points and asks some very good questions that not everyone might think of on their own. We also need to remember that this budget system is still very new and for someone to make a proposal takes a lot of courage. Alex now says that he will keep quiet which I don't think is going to help future proposals. We need questions asked, we need to question proposals and people making proposals should have as many answers as they possibly can to help make their case. There two sides to a fence, sometimes people are on top of the fence and need a little nudge.

I'll be voting yes.

Perfect. And, TBH, these discussions are sooooo exciting already!

 

[Minotaur]

Great initiative Ivan, I am totally supporting this.

 

[Minotaur]

I think a key element of a promotion proposal is being able to secure the funding outside of exchanges, it gives us the opportunity to experiment more. We are finding our way, take this case for example we can refund Ivan for a great initiative where he already spent the FIAT and will be keeping the DASH. That is a sustainable model as opposed to just paying DASH out directly to someone that may ultimately sell the coins.

Also, it has a great positive effect in team building and community encouragement which are a bit harder to quantify but very important for our long term success.

Is not going to be the same in every case, as Pablo said, there may be cases in the future where a refund is not justified, but I think Ivan made a compelling case and a great job and I am voting yes on this one.

 

[Solarminer]

Raganius,
Although, the intent moving forward is to get funding approval before a project is started, I still support the effort you put forth. I also want to point out that you clearly defined where the funds were used, the activity, and the intended purpose. This is key for proposals.

I would also suggest that you post a detailed report about how effective you think this was. Maybe outline specific people you talked with and connections you made. Also point out any changes you would make if you were to do it again. If anything, I bet you are closer to getting the tennis open to accept DASH next time and have them support some advertising.

My votes are in for a big yes.

Maybe you can submit a proposal for DASH operated vending machines or something else creative you are thinking about.

 

[Sub-Ether]

(continued)
During this whole period, what I have missed most was a "firm" community support, with only a few "retweets" or "facebook shares", for example. No matter how many photos or links I've published, almost no "likes" or "shares" or "followers" were given from this community (of course, some friends here were - and still are - always so supportive, and I am sure they have done what they could to help me. It is easy to recongise them from all the resulting material produced during this campaign). From my point of view, this DASH community felt apathetic. I confess that at the beginning I have felt very disappointed, because I expected much more support here (maybe this is not much more than an annoying reaction from my part, but I confess that when I decided to start these efforts, I was expecting a similar level of participation from this community, compared to other initiatives. And as a result this perception of apathy from the DASH community weakened my enthusiasm a little).
privacy awareness, education, SPORTS. And this is exactly the core of what I have been doing.

I am sorry you did not feel that you got sufficient community support, we are going to have to try harder next time, even more respect to you for seeing this thru at your own expense, I am happy to vote yes.
My feelings are that at the start of something completely new like this, there will be a takeup 'drag' factor before it enters into people's consciousness and during that time, the project will be only carried on to the public awareness level by a small number (of highly dedicated individuals), a tricky time that takes a lot of belief.
You have to create reality from that belief, which is a hard thing to do because it never existed before, setting a precedent is a psychologically tough one, once this has be done, others will follow more easily.

Only thing about the voting is, if you win the vote, the remaining merchandise effectively exists as a decentralized ownership (another Evan first, I believe), and the masternode holders could be said to own the remaining stock, after all it can't be sold at profit can it, because its already paid for.
What I suggest is that the remaining stock (if any?) gets sent to someone who is attending the Amsterdam trip, and we can (proudly) wear the hats at Evan's big 50 page whitepaper presentation, is this possible?

mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes

 

[rango]

Guys, please also check out the respective Dashwhale proposal page and discusson:

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/Tennis_Reimbursement

 

[Solarminer]

Guys, please also check out the respective Dashwhale proposal page and discusson:

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/Tennis_Reimbursement

Rango,
When you view a proposal, it lists your masternodes and how each voted. Love it.

 

[raganius]

Guys, please also check out the respective Dashwhale proposal page and discusson:

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/Tennis_Reimbursement

Great! Thank you! I'll go there and participate. I love your service, because it helps a lot organise the proposal discussions. And these discussions are the most important opportunity for the community to learn and improve ideas.

I am sorry you did not feel that you got sufficient community support, we are going to have to try harder next time, even more respect to you for seeing this thru at your own expense, I am happy to vote yes.
My feelings are that at the start of something completely new like this, there will be a takeup 'drag' factor before it enters into people's consciousness and during that time, the project will be only carried on to the public awareness level by a small number (of highly dedicated individuals), a tricky time that takes a lot of belief.
You have to create reality from that belief, which is a hard thing to do because it never existed before, setting a precedent is a psychologically tough one, once this has be done, others will follow more easily.
(...)

Please, my friend, be sure that you have always been a great incentive for me. It's hard to explain, but, what sometimes I miss here, specifically, is the "family feeling" from some people. I don't mind if opinions are different from my point of view, for example, sometimes Alex will be sincere, and express how he feels (and, by the way, he is coherent in his opinions): that is great. I respect it and find this important. What I miss is when people do not participate, do not give opinions, do not give us the necessary pep talk. It feels like, we, who participate, are not important. But that's maybe because, as a Brazilian, I want the house to be crowded and noisy lol

(...)
Only thing about the voting is, if you win the vote, the remaining merchandise effectively exists as a decentralized ownership (another Evan first, I believe), and the masternode holders could be said to own the remaining stock, after all it can't be sold at profit can it, because its already paid for.
What I suggest is that the remaining stock (if any?) gets sent to someone who is attending the Amsterdam trip, and we can (proudly) wear the hats at Evan's big 50 page whitepaper presentation, is this possible?

mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes

That's a great Idea. I've still got around 90 caps. I was trying to figure out what to do with all of them, because I didn't want to simply distribute them to anyone without a reason. If they are distributed in an event like that in Amsterdam, it will be awesome!

Thank you. Let's do it!

Raganius,
Although, the intent moving forward is to get funding approval before a project is started, I still support the effort you put forth. I also want to point out that you clearly defined where the funds were used, the activity, and the intended purpose. This is key for proposals.

I would also suggest that you post a detailed report about how effective you think this was. Maybe outline specific people you talked with and connections you made. Also point out any changes you would make if you were to do it again. If anything, I bet you are closer to getting the tennis open to accept DASH next time and have them support some advertising.

My votes are in for a big yes.

Maybe you can submit a proposal for DASH operated vending machines or something else creative you are thinking about.

Great idea too! I will start to work on a report right now! In it I'll try to assess the victories and failures noticed during the campaign; give examples of some of the people (from regular users to merchants) with which I've been in contact during these months. And, as Tungfa suggested, it could even be possible that we try to interview some of these people, in order to know what did they understand of DASH, if they would use it, etc. We could also think up and elaborate, maybe a simple questionnaire, or marketing research questions, I don't know, to submit to some of these people.

I'll start thinking about it, and I'll start working on it, and we can exchange ideas here.

Thank you too! Let's do it!

I think a key element of a promotion proposal is being able to secure the funding outside of exchanges, it gives us the opportunity to experiment more. We are finding our way, take this case for example we can refund Ivan for a great initiative where he already spent the FIAT and will be keeping the DASH. That is a sustainable model as opposed to just paying DASH out directly to someone that may ultimately sell the coins.

Also, it has a great positive effect in team building and community encouragement which are a bit harder to quantify but very important for our long term success.

Is not going to be the same in every case, as Pablo said, there may be cases in the future where a refund is not justified, but I think Ivan made a compelling case and a great job and I am voting yes on this one.

Thank you, Minotaur! It's so nice that you like it. It makes me so glad. What I would never want is to hurt DASH, and, even though I am very impulsive sometimes, I act with the best of intentions. So, for me, receiving feedback from the community is very important. And I feel like "mission accomplished" when the feedback is positive


BTW: Tomorrow will be the singles final matches. Next weekend will be doubles final matches.

 

[jpr]

Voted yes.

 

[alex-ru]

BTW: Tomorrow will be the singles final matches. Next weekend will be doubles final matches.

Great!

If it is not too late, please - make as many cool pictures "DASH logos + Crowd + Players" as you can.
As I stated before, such a pictures + your final report must be the most important result of this action.
Because tournament will be closed soon anyway and most of brazilian participants will forget about DASH (it is normal), but we all could use your pictures + report for better DASH promotion for many years, in many countries!
(My remark isn't because I am pessimist - but because I participated in many Exhibitions and other off-line promotions and have some experience in this area).

 

[Minotaur]

raganius Congratulations, it looks like your proposal has passed and will be funded, of course there is still a lot of time until voting closes but as of right now it made it into the budget and if nothing changes it will be paid on the next superblocks.

Go Dash Brasil!

 

[TanteStefana]

You took initiative to do something to spread the word about Dash. And you ask for a very reasonable compensation. A compensation you didn't know you might receive when just going out and doing it. So as a supporter of Dash myself, I can't see not saying thank you very much and voting yes. Thanks, and I'm off to vote

Sorry I'm late

 

[Sub-Ether]

Please, my friend, be sure that you have always been a great incentive for me. It's hard to explain, but, what sometimes I miss here, specifically, is the "family feeling" from some people. I don't mind if opinions are different from my point of view, for example, sometimes Alex will be sincere, and express how he feels (and, by the way, he is coherent in his opinions): that is great. I respect it and find this important. What I miss is when people do not participate, do not give opinions, do not give us the necessary pep talk. It feels like, we, who participate, are not important. But that's maybe because, as a Brazilian, I want the house to be crowded and noisy lol

That's a great Idea. I've still got around 90 caps. I was trying to figure out what to do with all of them, because I didn't want to simply distribute them to anyone without a reason. If they are distributed in an event like that in Amsterdam, it will be awesome!

Thank you. Let's do it!

BTW: Tomorrow will be the singles final matches. Next weekend will be doubles final matches.

Sweeping statement though it is, I would go as far as to say that western culture does not have the family unit (much anymore) like the so called developing countries, and generally speaking the more 'stuff' people own, the more it owns them (the Fightclub/Zerohedge ethos), the poorer countries are usually the more friendly (in my humble experience as a traveller, been to South America but not Brazil, btw).
The weather of course helps but its more than just that, the western mentality is more like, 'this is mine' and 'this is yours' type thing, and to separate everything and create walls, the more money and power a people/country has the more paranoid it's citizens/gov are about losing it all to foreigners/strangers.

So anyway, if we are to use the caps in Amsterdam, they ought to be posted to someone quickly because its not far away, am trhinking the postage service could be slow ?!

P.S.
So, are you still in tennis match, have you made it to the final then, can we have a photo update of a lethal Raganius smash shot?

 

[raganius]

Voted yes.

raganius Congratulations, it looks like your proposal has passed and will be funded, of course there is still a lot of time until voting closes but as of right now it made it into the budget and if nothing changes it will be paid on the next superblocks.

Go Dash Brasil!

You took initiative to do something to spread the word about Dash. And you ask for a very reasonable compensation. A compensation you didn't know you might receive when just going out and doing it. So as a supporter of Dash myself, I can't see not saying thank you very much and voting yes. Thanks, and I'm off to vote

Sorry I'm late

Thank you all for this amazing experience. Thank you, Tante! It's great to have you here :smile:

Congratulations to the DASH community for this huge step we are taking, bringing to reality the first Decentralised Autonomous Organisation. With each proposal to be vote the community will acquire an increasingly amount of experience, and the system will be perfected.

No matter what is the result of this votation, no matter what the results of any isolated votation, it is the overall achievements and progresses that will place DASH in History, and on the top.

Great!

If it is not too late, please - make as many cool pictures "DASH logos + Crowd + Players" as you can.
As I stated before, such a pictures + your final report must be the most important result of this action.
Because tournament will be closed soon anyway and most of brazilian participants will forget about DASH (it is normal), but we all could use your pictures + report for better DASH promotion for many years, in many countries!
(My remark isn't because I am pessimist - but because I participated in many Exhibitions and other off-line promotions and have some experience in this area).

Sure, Alex, I have already posted many images on twitter and facebook, I am now collecting them all in a bundle, even including some images that I have been able to collect from other people, and I'll place all these images in a single place (probably a Mega.nz folder, or in any other form as necessary), so that it will be easy to be accessed, selected and used by the community.

Sweeping statement though it is, I would go as far as to say that western culture does not have the family unit (much anymore) like the so called developing countries, and generally speaking the more 'stuff' people own, the more it owns them (the Fightclub/Zerohedge ethos), the poorer countries are usually the more friendly (in my humble experience as a traveller, been to South America but not Brazil, btw).
The weather of course helps but its more than just that, the western mentality is more like, 'this is mine' and 'this is yours' type thing, and to separate everything and create walls, the more money and power a people/country has the more paranoid it's citizens/gov are about losing it all to foreigners/strangers.

So anyway, if we are to use the caps in Amsterdam, they ought to be posted to someone quickly because its not far away, am trhinking the postage service could be slow ?!

P.S.
So, are you still in tennis match, have you made it to the final then, can we have a photo update of a lethal Raganius smash shot?

lol I was eliminated in the quarterfinals

 

[raganius]

(...)

So anyway, if we are to use the caps in Amsterdam, they ought to be posted to someone quickly because its not far away, am trhinking the postage service could be slow ?!

(...)

Sure, I can post it right away. I just need a PM to know where to send them. I just need an address. Maybe Minotaur knows, or someone else can help here.

 

[elbereth]

Just finished budget details page on Dash Ninja:
https://dashninja.pl/budgetdetails.html?budgetid=Tennis_Reimbursement

 

[TroyDASH]

This is something I would not necessarily mind supporting right now due to the pure novelty of it, but if not for that this is not the type of budget I can support. Budgets allocations should reflect future investment with a clear plan, not reimbursement for past actions, which was only requested in the first place because it failed to gather funding from elsewhere. I just don't want to set a precedent that it is a good idea to budget reimbursement for activities which have no particular demonstrated past or prospective ROI.

 

[raganius]

This is something I would not necessarily mind supporting right now due to the pure novelty of it, but if not for that this is not the type of budget I can support. Budgets allocations should reflect future investment with a clear plan, not reimbursement for past actions, which was only requested in the first place because it failed to gather funding from elsewhere. I just don't want to set a precedent that it is a good idea to budget reimbursement for activities which have no particular demonstrated past or prospective ROI.

Thank you, TroyDASH, for sharing your opinion with us. :smile:

I do not see reimbursements for past expenses required to efforts in the benefit of the whole DASH community as something to not be approved, or even avoided. And these are some of the reasons:

1. There are situations in which the community might find it to be more reasonable that some payments are made only after the accomplishment of the works proposed. These are cases in which the community will prefer to "see" the works being executed, watching how it progresses, before deciding on the reimbursement. It would be like a "risk contract": someone (from the community or not) will be accepting to absorb the risks, and perform their efforts, in benefit of the whole commuity, initially for free. And only after the community is comfortable with the works received, they would then decide with the proposal votation.
2. Not only reimbursements, but I even see the perfectly acceptable situation in which the remuneration for the effort itself is submited for votation only after the works have been performed. If that's convenient.
3. Spontaneous efforts from known members of the community, directed to the clear benefit of the community (this "clear benefit" is to be confirmed, or refused, only by the voters themselves) should always be encouraged.
4. If it is a perfectly valid proposal, accepted by the software system (the first level of control), the rule is "the wisdom of the crowd" to be expressed by the votation per se (the second level of control).
   
5. Works on DASH marketing and promotion is one of the priorities defined by the community.
6. This reimbursement proposed by me does not set a new precedent, as one of our very first approved proposals was a specific reimbursement request for past expenses. This clearly indicates that such requests are to be expected by the community.
7. Being a peer-to-peer community all members are equaly important. We all must be considered equal peers. The same applies to our proposals, which will always demand that the rules are applied without distinctions. It is the necessary requitals, now based on merits, that are always to be measured through the established rules of the DASH voting system.

This is to make clear my decision, based on how I understand the system.

Just finished budget details page on Dash Ninja:
https://dashninja.pl/budgetdetails.html?budgetid=Tennis_Reimbursement

Thank you for your service. It's great! I am you fan :smile:


edit: regarding "voting rules", my opinion above is only that: my opinion. That is how I understood our voting mechanism. Of course, many will not agree. At the same time, I would like to learn more about this interesting subject. So I invite us all to debate it further at dashtalk.org/threads/dash-budget-proposals-voting-rules.6130

Thanks